Apr 20, 2023 County Council Budget Work Session

SO, UH, WE'LL JUST GO.

SO, UH, THE FIRST ITEM, UH, ON THE AGENDA IS THE OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR, WHICH IS JUST AN ADMINISTRATION BUDGET.

OFFICE OF DIRECTOR IS ON PAGE 3 91 FOR A TOTAL, UM, BUDGET OF $512,319.

UM, A CHANGE OF 116, UH, 50, UH, THEN IS LARGELY DUE TO, UM, A NEW, UH, TEMPORARY SALARY FOR A LIAISON BETWEEN HARPER COUNTY AND STATE HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION.

UM, IF I MAY, I'D LIKE TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF INTRODUCTION TO PUBLIC WORKS IN GENERAL ON SOME SPECIFICS BEFORE WE TURN OVER THE DETAIL.

UM, PUBLIC WORKS IS THE LARGEST DEPARTMENT WITHIN HARFORD COUNTY GOVERNMENT COUNTY CHARTER HAS CHARGED D P W WITH THE DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE OF SEVERAL ITEMS, CAPITAL PROJECTS, COUNTY ROAD BRIDGES, AND DRAINAGE STRUCTURES, SEWAGE COLLECTION AND TREATMENT FACILITIES, WATER SUPPLY, TREATMENT AND DISTRIBUTION, AND SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT PROGRAMS AND FACILITIES.

AND IN RECENT YEARS, ADDITIONAL ITEMS HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN OUR MISSION, SUCH AS THE MS FOUR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PERMIT PROGRAM, ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE INSPECTIONS, AND THIS YEAR, UH, COUNTY FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS.

AS DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE TECHNICAL GUIDANCE AND ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT TO ALL OF PUBLIC WORKS AND TO PROVIDE AN EFFICIENT, COST EFFECTIVE DEPARTMENT THAT WILL UNDERSTAND AND MEET THE NEEDS OF OUR CITIZENS AND OUR COUNTY.

WHILE MAINTAINING A WORK ENVIRONMENT BASED ON PRODUCTIVITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, WE STRIVE TO SOLVE COMPLEX PROBLEMS THROUGH OBJECTIVE COLLABORATION AND BALANCING OFTEN CONFLICTING INTERESTS AND PRIORITIES OF MULTIPLE STAKEHOLDERS, INCLUDING THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND HIS ADMINISTRATION, COUNTY COUNCIL, OTHER COUNTY DEPARTMENTS AND STATE AND FEDERAL AGENCIES, INCLUDING AVENUE PROVING GROUND, ARE 260,000 RESIDENTS, THREE MUNICIPALITIES, TWO EMPLOYEE UNIONS, AS WELL AS LOCAL AND NATIONAL ENGINEERS, CONSULTANTS, CONTRACTORS, AND LAND DEVELOPERS THAT DO BUSINESS IN AND FOR THE COUNTY.

I'M SUPPORTED BY OUR DEPUTY DIRECTORS, BILL BETINE AND STEVE WALSH, AND THEY WILL PROVIDE DETAILS ON THEIR OPERATING DIVISIONS.

I ALSO WANNA TAKE A MOMENT TO ACKNOWLEDGE MY ASSISTANT, CHRIS FLINNER, SITTING BEHIND, WHO DOES A GREAT JOB OF KEEPING ME AND ALL IT WORKS STRAIGHT AND ON TRACK, AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

PHIL, STEVE AND I ALSO ENCOURAGE D P W EMPLOYEES TO PARTICIPATE IN CONTINUING EDUCATION AND TRAINING, AND TO ACTIVELY ENGAGE WITH PROFESSIONAL AND TECHNICAL ORGANIZATIONS WITH THEIR COLLEAGUES.

IN MY ROLE AS DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, I AM CURRENTLY PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTY ENGINEERS ASSOCIATION OF MARYLAND FOR FISCAL YEAR 23, AFTER SERVING ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS SINCE 2019, AND I WAS APPOINTED BY GOVERNOR HOGAN AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE, THE NORTHEAST MARYLAND WASTE DISPOSAL AUTHORITY, AND WAS ELECTED CHAIRMAN IN 2020.

THE DPW IS NOT ABOUT ME.

D P W IS ABOUT THE ALMOST 400 DEDICATED MEN AND WOMEN THAT PERFORM ALL THOSE TASKS EVERY DAY THAT MANY OF US DON'T SEE, BUT WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE AND MORE OFTEN NOTICE IN CASE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

AND THAT INCLUDES SAFE DRINKING WATER, CLEAN WASTE WATER THAT'S CLEANED WELL ENOUGH TO GO INTO THE CHESAPEAKE BAG.

UH, SAFE AND REVERSIBLE ROADS AND BRIDGES, UM, SOLID WASTE, UH, THAT IS, UH, MANAGED AND DISPOSED OF AND RECYCLED IN ACCORDANCE TO ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AMONGST MANY, MANY, MANY OTHER THINGS.

SO IT IS THEY WHO, WHO DO THAT JOB EVERY SINGLE DAY, OF WHICH I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE.

THIS MAKES MY JOB EASIER.

AND, UH, I, I JUST, FOR WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO, UH, CLOSE MY INTRODUCTION AND, UH, TURN IT BACK TO ROBBIE AND HE'LL WALK THROUGH THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS OF, OF WHAT THIS, UH, PROPOSED BUDGET IS.

UM, SO BEFORE, FIRST, WERE THERE ANY QUESTIONS AND OR ON THE, JUST ON THE OFFICE OF THE, OF THE, UM, DIRECTOR, AND IF NOT, WE'LL GO INTO HIGHWAYS.

SO, BEFORE YOU MOVE ON, JOE, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ALWAYS, UH, ANSWERING MY CALLS.

I WANT TO THANK YOUR 400 PLUS TEAM, UH, FOR ALL THEY DO.

UH, ON OCCASION WE GET TO VISIT DIFFERENT SITES, DIFFERENT, UH, LOCATIONS, AND GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THEY DO EVERY DAY.

UM, AND WE KNOW THAT, UH, YOUR MEN ARE ON CALL, MEN AND WOMEN ARE ON CALL, UH, 24 7, SO WE APPRECIATE THAT.

APPRECIATE THE TOURS THAT YOU PROVIDED, UH, FOR, UH, THE COUNCIL AS A WHOLE, UH, FOR, UH, ALL OF YOUR DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, WHETHER IT BE AT THE ABONY WATER PLANT OR WHETHER IT BE SIDE RUN, UH, AND, AND THE CAPABILITIES ARE, ARE LIKE NO OTHER.

WE APPRECIATE THAT.

BUT I GOTTA ASK YOU, THAT BEEPING NOISE THAT WE'VE BEEN LISTENING TO FOR ABOUT A WEEK, WHAT THE HELL IS IT? I JUST ASKED YOU TO STOP.

OH, DID YOU? ? SO THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.

SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING UP, UP ON THE ROOF? REDOING, RE RESTORING THE, OKAY, SORRY, I JUST ASKED THE

[00:05:01]

NEXT TIME.

THAT'S OKAY.

UH, WE, WE'VE TOLERATED IT YESTERDAY.

COUNTY EXECUTIVE SAT HERE FOR THREE HOURS AND IT BEEPED THE ENTIRE TIME.

UM, JOE, TALK, TALK TO ME ABOUT WOODLEY ROAD.

WOODLEY ROAD.

UH, THE, AS WE HAD, UH, INDICATED IN EARLIER DISCUSSIONS, 75%, UH, DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.

UH, THEY WERE DELIVERED TO THE COUNTY, UH, EARLIER THIS WEEK.

UH, THE ENTIRE PACKAGE WAS THEN FORWARDED ONTO RAY MCDERMOTT OF, UH, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUNDS, UM, YESTERDAY, AS A MATTER OF FACT.

SO ALL THE DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR HAS BEEN, UH, HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO THEM.

VERY GOOD.

NOW, ROBBIE, IF YOU'D LIKE TO, ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL? WELL, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE TOUR THAT PAT WAS TALKING ABOUT.

UH, ONE COMMENT, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A TOUR AT THE END OF THE TOUR WHEN WE WENT DOWN TO THE, ACTUALLY TO THE BUSH RIVER, AND THEY, THEY, UH, UM, SHOWED US, UH, WHERE THE WATER, WATER IS NOW GOING INTO THE BUSH RIVER AF AFTER IT'S BEEN TREATED ALL THROUGH OUR, THROUGH OUR COUNTY.

AND THEY DI TOOK A DIP OF THE WATER OUT OF THIS.

I GUESS YOU, IT'S A BIG HOLE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL IT.

ANYWAY, BIG HOLE.

AND IT, AND IT, AND IT'S GOING RIGHT FROM THERE OUT AFTER THIS IS, IF IT'S BEEN TREATED, THEY SCOOP IT OUT AND THEY PUT IT IN A GLASS OF WATER.

SET IT DOWN.

THEN HE'D TAKE A GLASS TO TAKE A SCOOP AND SCOOP IT OUT OF BUSH RIVER AND POUR IT ANOTHER GLASS AND PUT 'EM SIDE BY SIDE.

AND THE, THE DIFFERENCE IS JUST NIGHT AND DAY.

IT'S JUST INCREDIBLE.

THE WATER GOING IN THERE IS BETTER IN THE WATER THAT'S THERE.

AND MY COMPLIMENTS, PAUL.

UM, MR. PENMAN, UH, THANK YOU, SIR.

UH, JUST THIS TEMPORARY POSITION, THE LIAISON BETWEEN HARFORD COUNTY AND THE STATE HIGHWAYS.

I KNOW THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BREAKDOWN BETWEEN HIGHWAYS AND, AND, AND TRYING TO, UH, GET THINGS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE STATE.

UH, BUT WHAT'S YOUR VISION FOR THAT POSITION, UH, PRODUCTIVITY? IS THERE ANOTHER POSITION IN OTHER COUNTIES THAT ALSO HAVE A LIAISON THAT, THAT IS, THAT'S EFFECTIVE? UM, PUBLIC WORKS HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN A, A VERY, UH, LEAN AND, UH, AND, AND, UH, FOCUSED ORGANIZATION ON THE MISSION AT HAND, GET STUFF DONE.

UM, AND SO WHEN THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE CAME IN AND RECOGNIZED THAT HE'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SORT OF REACHED OUT MORE TO DIFFERENT, UH, ORGANIZATIONS, STATE HIGHWAY IN PARTICULAR, AND BEING THE, THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOESN'T RECOGNIZE SOMETIMES THAT A ROAD ISN'T, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S THE COUNTY, SOMETIMES THE STATE THERE, THEY JUST KNOW THAT THE ROAD HAS AN ISSUE.

UH, AND SO WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE MORE OF A COMMUNICATION AND A CLOSER COORDINATION.

UH, SO THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL THAT HAD THAT RESPONSIBILITY, I THINK IS GONNA BE HELPFUL TO US.

UH, MY VISION IS TO USE THAT PERSON FOR, WELL, MORE THAN JUST SIMPLY THAT TASK.

UH, THAT PERSON WILL HELP US TO, UH, POSSIBLY EVALUATE, UH, GRANT OPPORTUNITIES, UH, LOOKING FOR THINGS THAT WE DON'T ALREADY DO OR THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET FUNDING TO DO.

SO, UH, THAT PERSON WOULD BE ABLE TO HELP US WITH OUR, UH, SOCIAL MEDIA PRESENCE PERHAPS.

UH, AGAIN, WE HAVE SOME ELEMENT OF THAT, BUT WE'RE FOCUSED ON DOING ENGINEER AND CONSTRUCTION STUFF.

AND SO WE THINK THAT THAT PERSON, UH, IS GOING TO BE VERY HELPFUL IN THAT REGARD.

I WILL SAY, COMPARED TO MY COLLEAGUES AND, UH, COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER, OTHER PUBLIC WORKS AGENCIES IN, UH, EXCUSE ME, YEAH, PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENTS IN OTHER COUNTIES, UM, OUR OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR, WHICH WOULD BE THREE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF TWO, IS MUCH SMALLER THAN MOST THAT ARE, UH, SIMILAR SIZE TO US, LIKE CARROLL COUNTY, FREDERICK COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO WE FEEL THAT, UH, AGAIN, WE DON'T COMPARE OURSELVES TO OTHERS, BUT WE ALWAYS DO TAKE A LOOK AND WE ASK, HOW DO YOU ALL DO THAT? UH, THAT'S HOW THAT IDEA CAME ABOUT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN.

UH, ANY COUNSEL, ANY, ANYONE ELSE? MS. HERRON? UM, THIS MIGHT BE DIRECTED TO ROBBIE ON PAGE 3 93.

THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCREPANCY IN THE SALARY FROM FY 22, 23, AND 24.

UM, IS, IS THAT A TYPO? PERHAPS 43.

3 93.

OH, OKAY.

IS A, THERE THAT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN THAT POSITION OVER THE YEARS.

SO JUST, JUST, OH YEAH, SO SALARY ADJUSTMENTS FROM THE, UM, UH, FROM THE, FROM THE PRIOR, UH, FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

UM, SO THE DIRECTOR TOOK MORE THAN $20,000 CUT, POSSIBLY GET A CUT, , AND, AND, AND ALSO THE, THE SUPPORT PERSON OR ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS.

UM, CHRIS IS NOW OUR, MY THIRD DIFFERENT ONE IN THE LAST THREE YEARS.

THAT EITHER MEANS I'M A BAD BOSS AND I CAN'T HAVE, UH, YEAH.

BUT, BUT THAT

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I WAS REALLY LOOKING AT THE DIRECTOR'S SALARY THAT WAS SO HIGH IN FY 23 AND SO LOW IN 24.

ROBBIE, DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE 27 PAY? NO, THAT, I MEAN, THAT IS, UM, THERE WERE, UM, WE PUT IN RA THERE WERE, THERE WERE RAISES PUT IN KIND OF A, ACROSS THE BOARD LAST YEAR AS PART OF, UM, UH, THAT RAISE PACKAGE.

UM, BUT, BUT NOT EVERYONE RECEIVED RECEIVED THOSE RAISES.

SO FY 23 IS NOT A REAL NUMBER? NO.

WELL, SO FY 23 WAS A BUDGETED NUMBER BASED UPON IF THE RAISES WERE GIVEN ACROSS THE BOARD, OFTENTIMES DIRECTORS, AT LEAST IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, WOULD SOMETIMES NOT RECEIVE, UM, NECESSARILY THE SAME, THE SAME RAISE OR AT THE SAME TIME AS, AS THE REST OF THE EMPLOYEES.

AND SO, AND SO YOU, I MEAN, YOU ALWAYS BUDGET WHAT, WHAT YOU THINK WILL BE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE, UM, UH, KIND OF LIKE THE, THE HIGHEST AMOUNT, IF YOU WILL.

UM, IF IT WAS, IF IT WAS DONE ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, ACTUAL TIMING AND ACTUAL DECISIONS MIGHT, MIGHT AFFECT THAT AND ALL.

I, I JUST WANT TO ASK ABOUT SOME OF THESE SIDE ROADS THAT ARE BEING USED AS, UH, TRACTOR TRAILER PARKING LOTS.

MACOMBS ROAD FOR ONE.

I, I CAME BY THIS MORNING AND THERE'S TWO TRAILERS DUMPED SITTING THERE.

UH, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY CAN BE PARKED ON COUNTY ROADS.

I KNOW THAT THE ROAD IS NOT BUSY.

I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT, UH, I WAS JUST CURIOUS TO THAT REASON, UH, PARKING VIOLATIONS, UH, ON ANY COUNTY ROAD ARE THE ENFORCEMENT OF THOSE ARE, UH, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

WHEN WE HEAR ABOUT, AND WE OFTEN HEAR ABOUT 'EM, JUST LIKE WE HEARD FROM YOU ABOUT THAT POSSIBILITY, THEN WE REPORT THOSE, UH, DIRECTLY TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE FOR THEM TO INVESTIGATE.

AND THEN THEY WILL, UH, PAY ATTENTION TO WHETHER IT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S A RECURRING PROBLEM, UH, AND THEN THAT MAY RESULT IN A DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNAGE PERHAPS THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT.

UH, BUT WE'LL MAKE A POINT OF, UH, OF REPORTING.

I MEAN, IT'S BEEN THERE.

I KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN DROPPED DIFFERENT TRAILERS THERE IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS, SO, OKAY.

JUST A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THE SALARY, I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM, UM, SO THAT THE FY 23 SALARY, YEAH.

FY 23 SALARY FOR THE DIRECTOR WAS NOT AT 1 92.

NO, THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE BUDGETED AMOUNT.

UM, SOMETIMES COUNTY EXECUTIVES, UM, WOULD NOT, IF LAST YEAR THERE WAS A 10% INCREASE IN, UM, IN WAGES, AND SOMETIMES THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY APPLY THAT SAME TO, TO THE DIRECTORS.

UM, AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, WE BUDGETED IT AT THAT LEVEL.

UM, BUT THAT WAS, WAS NOT, UM, WAS NOT WHAT, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY DIRECTORS AREN'T TREATED THE SAME WAY AS, UM, THE THE CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES.

UM, AND SO SOME OF THAT JUST GOES INTO WHAT THE, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WANTED, WANTED TO DO, BUT IT WOULDN'T HAVE GONE OVER THAT, THAT AMOUNT.

BUT, UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS BASED UPON THE CURRENT, THE CURRENT SALARY.

SO WITH THAT, WE'LL UH, TURN, UH, FIRST TO THE OPERATING PORTION OF HIGHWAYS.

UH, AND THEN WE'LL GO, UM, AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH THAT SECTION, THEN WE'LL GO TO THE CAPITOL SECTION, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE RESURFACING AND THE BRIDGES ON THE OTHER SORTED ROAD PROJECTS.

SO ON THE OPERATING SIDE OF HIGHWAYS, IF YOU TURN YOUR OPERATING BOOK, EXCUSE, ROBBIE.

OH, COULD, COULD I DO AN CHAIR ROLL? OH, YOU CAN DO THAT.

HOWEVER YOU WANNA DO IT.

MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

GOOD MORNING.

UM, COULD I INTRODUCE THE TEAM HERE? YES.

UM, SO WE HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS FOR , A LOT OF, LOT OF PART OF THE, UH, D P W HERE.

FIRST CAROLYN COMBS, SHE'S OUR BUDGET TECH.

APPRECIATE, UH, THE WORK THERE.

UH, CAPITAL PROJECTS, UH, LEAD IS BARKLEY CREIGHTON, UH, FACILITY AND OPS.

AARON SCHAFFER, UH, IT'S FROM STORMWATER MANAGEMENT DIVISION, BOB ANDERSON.

SO WASTE, JEFF SCHAUBERGER, UH, HIGHWAYS.

WE HAVE KENNY SEXTON, HEAD, HEAD OF HIGHWAYS, CHARLIE BURKE, THE THE MONEY GUY, AND ALL AROUND ADMINISTRATOR FOR HIGHWAYS.

UH, GLENN HEK, OUR CHIEF HIGHWAY ENGINEER, UH, FROM WATERSHED PROTECTION.

CHRISTINE BUCKLEY, THE, THE HEAD OF THAT GROUP, AND SOME FOLKS FROM A GROUP THERE, LAURA, ANDREW, MICHELLE AND DANIELLE IN THE BACK.

UM, MATT, MICHAEL, NEWLY, UH, NAMED HEAD OF CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT.

AND THAT'S IT.

OF HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE AND THE BUREAU OF HIGHWAY ENGINEERING.

THEY'RE ALL FAMILIAR FACES.

WE SEE 'EM ON A REGULAR BASIS FOR SHORT AND APPRECIATE ALL THEY DO.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

UH, THE DIVISION OF HIGHWAYS CONSISTS OF TWO BUREAUS, UM, BUREAU

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AND JUST TO REMIND FOLKS OF OUR HIGHWAY INFRASTRUCTURE, WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN, UH, 1079 MILES OF ROAD.

ABOUT TWO THIRDS ARE ASPHALT.

A LITTLE LESS THAN A THIRD IS TARRAN CHIP.

AND WE STILL HAVE 42 MILES OF EARTH ROADS OUT THERE.

225 COUNTY BRIDGES, 3076 CULVERTS, 280 MILES OF STORM DRAIN.

IF YOU DO THE MATH, THAT'S ONE AND A HALF MILLION FEET OF STORM DRAIN.

WE HAVE 31,000 SIGNS AND 5,361 STREETLIGHTS.

WE ALSO TAKE CARE OF, UH, RIGHT AWAY MANAGEMENT UTILITY AND ACCESS PERMITTING, ROADSIDE AND TREE MANAGEMENT.

THEN OF COURSE, SNOW REMOVAL AND STORM CLEANUP.

UH, AND THIS, THIS, THIS PROPOSED HIGHWAY'S BUDGET SUPPORTS THE MAINTENANCE AND IMPROVEMENTS OF THOSE ASSETS.

UM, HIGHWAY MAINTENANCES MAINTENANCE IS DIVIDED INTO FOUR HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE DISTRICTS IN WHITEFORD, ABINGDON, JARRETTSVILLE, AND HICKORY, SUPPORTED BY SPECIAL OPERATIONS CREWS FOR GROUND GROUNDS MAINTENANCE, UH, ROAD CEILING, BRIDGE DRAINAGE, TRAFFIC SIGNS, TRAFFIC MARKING AND UTILITY AND ACCESS.

UM, PERMITTING, BUREAU OF HIGHWAY ENGINEERING IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INVESTIGATION AND PROJECT DEVELOPMENT AND DESIGN OF COUNTY ROADWAY TRAFFIC, PEDESTRIAN SAFETY BRIDGE, AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, AS WELL AS THE REVIEW, BONDING AND PERMITTING OF PRIVATE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.

OH, ALL RIGHT.

UM, AND ALSO JUST A REMINDER ABOUT, UM, HIGHWAYS.

HIGHWAYS IS A SPECIAL REVENUE FUND, AND ALL THE OPERATIONS OF HIGHWAYS ARE NOT PART OF THE GENERAL FUND.

THEY ARE PRIMARILY FINANCED, UM, THROUGH A PROPERTY TAX THAT IS LEVIED ON THOSE PROPERTIES OUTSIDE OF THE THREE MUNICIPALITIES.

THE IDEA BEING THAT THE, UM, COUNTY TAXPAYERS, IF YOU WILL PAY FOR COUNTY ROADS AND THE MUNICIPAL TAXPAYERS PAY FOR THE MUNICIPAL ROADS.

UM, SO, UM, ALL OF THEIR OPERATIONS JUST DEAL WITH JUST STRICTLY COUNTY ONLY ROADS OUTSIDE OF THE THREE MUNICIPALITIES AND ARE FUNDED, UM, FROM THOSE RESPECTIVE TAXPAYERS.

UM, WITH THAT, UM, GOING TO THE OPERATING PORTION HERE ON, UM, PAGE 4 26.

UH, THE OVERALL DIVISION OF HIGHWAYS HAS AN INCREASE OF, UM, UH, 341,000, UH, 116, AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO THE INDIVIDUAL ITEMS THAT ARE MAKING THAT UP.

UM, AS DEPUTY DIRECTOR SPOKE TO, UM, THERE ARE A FEW DIFFERENT DIVISIONS.

THE BUREAU OF HIGHWAY ENGINEERING, UM, HAS A NET DECREASE OF $104,000.

UM, THAT IS, UM, A COMBINATION OF, UH, POSITION TURNOVER, THE 27TH PAY PARTIALLY OFFSET BY, UM, UH, INCREASE FOR, UH, THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, OTHER PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.

IF YOU TURN TO PAGE 4 34, HIGH BUREAU OF HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE, THERE IS AN INCREASE THERE OF $323,000.

THAT IS A COMBINATION OF, UH, 216,000 INCREASE FOR, UH, TREE TRIMMING, UH, DUE TO INCREASED, UH, WORK AND INCREASE IN THE MOWING CONTRACT.

AND ALSO A $300,000 INCREASE FOR STREET SWEEPER SERVICES.

THAT IS PARTIALLY OFFSET BY, UM, POSITION TURNOVER IS THE 27TH PAY.

UH, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.

ON PAGE 4 38, UH, SNOW REMOVAL, THERE IS AN INCREASE THERE OF 121, UH THOUSAND, ALMOST 122,000.

AND THAT IS LARGELY DUE TO AN INCREASE IN THE PRICE OF SAND AND SALT THAT COVERS THE OPERATION.

SO STEVE, UH, JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION.

UM, IT'S A STABILIZATION FUND.

I KNOW IN THE BUDGET WE HAVE, IS IT 30 30 MILLION? IS THAT WHAT I RECALL? FOR THE WATERSHED STABILIZATION? OH, SO IN, IN THAT, IN THAT SECTION, YES.

AND DO WE ACTUALLY SPEND ALL OF THAT MONEY FOR THAT, OR IS IT JUST BUDGETED? YEAH, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S A PART OF FUN BALANCE.

THAT IS, UM, THERE, IF WE, UM, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE OBLIGATION IN THE FUTURE FOR, FOR STORMWATER NOW, DO WE A SECTION WE GET TO, UM, WITH, WITH CHRISTINE BUCKLEY, I THINK AFTER THIS ONE, UM, THEN WE'LL, WE'LL WAIT TILL THEN.

UH, SO, SO, UH, SNOW REMOVAL, SINCE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY SNOW REMOVAL LAST YEAR.

WHERE DOES THAT MONEY GO TO THAT WE APPROPRIATED? SO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT SPENT IN THE HIGHWAYS FUND GOES TO THE HIGHWAYS FUND FUND BALANCE.

UM, NOW, SOMETIMES AT THE END OF THE YEAR, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME, UM, SOME PROJECTS.

SO IF WE HAD SOME SAVINGS, YOU KNOW, THAT THINGS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DEFERRED OR STOCKING UP PILES, EVEN WHEN IT SEEMS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE SNOW.

I KNOW WE STILL SOMETIMES PUT DOWN SALT IN.

UM, WITH, I GUESS, WAS IT A BRINE THAT, UH, THAT YOU'RE WORKING? AND, UH, I KNOW WE HAD A COUPLE INSTANCES WHERE WE HAD A, YOU KNOW, WE SAW THE, THE BRINE DOWN, BUT THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE YEAR BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, BUT, UM, SO THERE IS AN EFFORT TO DO THAT.

BUT ANYTHING IN THE, IN THE HIGHWAYS FUND STAYS IN THE WASTES FUND SO IT DOESN'T GET TRANSFERRED, UM, TO ANY OTHER FUNDS.

GOTCHA.

STEVE, GOOD MORNING.

THANK YOU FOR COMING.

SO, I, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT, OR YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT YOU WERE DOING SOMETHING NEWER THIS YEAR,

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DIDN'T YOU GUYS CHANGE SOMETHING ON THAT? NO, IT'S JUST, IT'S THE CONTINUED USE OF BRINE, WHICH IS REALLY THE, UH, THE BEST WAY TO TREAT ROADS, THE, THE BEST TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE TO, TO MAKE THE SALT WORK A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

SO BASICALLY THERE'S A, THERE'S A BRINE TANK ON OUR NEW TRUCKS THAT ACTUALLY PUTS BRINE ON THE SALT AS THE SALT IS DELIVERED.

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

SO IT, IT, IT KICKS IN THE SALT A LITTLE QUICKER THAN IT NORMALLY WOULD.

AND, UH, THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE, THE, THE BEST MODERN TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE.

ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT, KENNY? GOING TO A PRE-WET.

PRE WET, IT'S CALLED PRE-WET.

GOTCHA.

SO THE, WHAT HAPPENS, LIKE IF WE BUY ALL THIS SALT, DOES THAT SALT STAY THIS YEAR TO NEXT YEAR? SO IT IS.

YES, SIR.

THAT'S IT.

JUST WANT TO CLARIFY EXPLANATION.

THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE.

UM, JUST TO, UH, TOUCH ON WHAT TONY JUST SAID, IN FACT, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY SUBSTANTIAL SNOW OF ANYTHING IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.

CAREFUL.

CAREFUL, CAREFUL.

NOW , NOW MYER THE SOUTHERN PART.

I KNOW, I UNDERSTAND.

MAYBE IN THE NORTHERN WESTERN PART OF, OF THE COUNTY, IT MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

CAUSE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE FOR SOME REASON, 95 KIND OF PARALLELS THE WEATHER FOR SOME REASON.

AND I'M ON THIS, I'M ON THE GOOD SIDE OF 95, AND YOU GUYS ARE ON THE BAD SIDE AS FAR AS THE WEATHER'S CONCERNED.

UH, BUT IT IS AMAZING WHEN I, WHEN I SEE THAT AND I SEE THE WEATHER AND I CAN SEE THERE, IT'S LIKE SNOW OVER THERE AND WE AIN'T GOT ANYTHING NOW, NOW THAT HELPS BEING CLOSE TO THE WATER CUZ THE WATER REVERSES ITSELF FROM THE SUMMER TO THE WINTER, TO THE WINTER TO THE SUMMER.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT, UM, I KNOW I HAVEN'T HAD, UH, I GOT A SNOWBLOWER AND SHOVELS.

I HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANYTHING OUT OF THE GARAGE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I GOTTA GET RID OF THE, THE, THE, UH, THE BUGS AND STUFF OFF.

YOU NEED TO, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T HAD TO USE IT.

AND I, I'VE GOT A FAIRLY LONG DRIVEWAY AND I HAVEN'T HAD TO USE IT IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

SO WE SHOULD BE SAVING SOME MONEY.

YOU NEED TO STOP RIGHT NOW.

WE, WE HAVE , BUT, BUT, BUT THEN IT'LL BE THERE FOR WHEN, YOU KNOW, WE, WHEN WE DO, WHEN WE NEED IT BECAUSE SOME YEARS WE, WE GO SIGNIFICANTLY OVER OUR SNOW BUDGET.

I MEAN, THERE WAS, RIGHT.

I MEAN, DEFINITELY I REMEMBER MY, MY FIRST OR SECOND YEAR HERE, UM, WE WERE WELL OVER OUR, OUR, OUR, OUR SNOW BUDGET, UM, DURING THE, THE SNOWMAGEDDON PERIOD.

CERTAINLY THIS YEAR WAS VERY, VERY MILD LAST YEAR.

UM, YOU KNOW, AS YOU MENTIONED, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE SIX INCHES OF SNOW IN THE NORTH PART OF THE COUNTY AND, AND DOWN BY THE WATER.

NOT MUCH AT ALL.

SO YEAH, LAST YEAR WAS, THERE WERE, THERE WAS A DECENT NUMBER OF, OF EVENTS LAST YEAR.

MR. RILEY, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS FOR STEVE OR JOE, WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT YOUR ANNEX OR IT'S UP FOR, UH, DISCUSSION ABOUT ANNEXING SOME PROPERTY THERE IN ABERDEEN AND THAT ROAD THAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME KIND OF, UH, A DEAL WITH ABERDEEN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS.

SO PREVIOUSLY WHEN WE ANNEXED PROPERTY, DID THE HIGHWAYS GO WITH THE TOWN OR THE, THE, UH, UH, ABERDEEN OR WHEREVER WE ANNEXED HAPPY GRACE OR BEL AIR? NO, IT DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL ANNEXATION AGREEMENT BY THE INDIVIDUAL MUNICIPALITY.

THE LAST SEVERAL OR FEW WITHIN ABERDEEN HAVE NOT.

UM, SO WE'RE DOING THOSE ROADS, THOSE COUNTY ROADS.

THE REST OF THE COUNTY IS DOING IT.

NOT THE, UH, THE TOWN OF ABERDEEN.

WELL, THE, THE, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DETERMINING WHAT'S GONNA BE DONE, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE CITY OF ABERDEEN TO DETERMINE WHAT'S THE BEST AND MOST APPROPRIATE APPROACH JUST ON THAT ONE ROAD THAT WE'RE, WE'RE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER NIGHT.

WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT PREVIOUSLY.

OH.

HAVE WE DONE ANY ANNEXING WHERE WE STILL HAVE TO DO ROADS IN THEIR TOWNSHIP? NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

AND THEY'RE DOING THE ANNEXING TOWNS, AND AGAIN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ANNEXING THE PROPERTY, NOT THE ROAD.

SO, AND, AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL GIVE AN EXAMPLE.

UM, THE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT RIGHT HERE, THE TOWN OF BEL AIR ANNEX, A COUPLE VERY SMALL PARCELS ON TOLLGATE ROAD, UM, RIGHT.

UH, JUST A COUPLE BLOCKS SOUTH, I GUESS, OR, UH, EAST OF, UH, BALTIMORE PIKE, UH, THAT ARE ON BOTH SIDES OF TOLLGATE ROAD.

TH THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT ANNEXING TOLLGATE ROAD IN THAT 200 FOOT STRETCH.

AND THAT'S BY AGREEMENT THAT'S UNDERSTOOD BETWEEN THE TOWN AND US.

AND THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF THE WAY WE WORK TOGETHER WITH THE TOWN.

SO IT'S EACH INDIVIDUAL SITUATION AS IT COMES UP.

UM, NO, IT'S IN THE, UM, SO IN THE, THE FINANCIAL REPORT, THE FUND BALANCE FOR UM, 70, UM, THE TOTAL, UM, THE TOTAL HIGHWAYS, UM, FUND BALANCE IS ABOUT 25 MILLION, YOU KNOW, OF THAT AMOUNT.

THANK YOU, MR. RILEY.

MR. PENN, UM, YOU MENTIONED THE, THE FUND BALANCE.

IS THE FUND BALANCE, UH, FOR HIGHWAYS LISTED IN HERE? I DIDN'T SEE IT.

OR IS IT LISTED IN THE CAPITAL OR,

[00:25:01]

UM, THEY HAVE A, A 5%, UM, RAINY DAY FUND AS, AS WELL.

UM, AND THEN THERE WAS ABOUT EIGHT, EIGHT AND A HALF THAT WAS KIND OF AVAILABLE FOR, FOR FUTURE USE.

WE USED 9 MILLION OF IT, UM, TO, AS PART OF LAST YEAR'S BUDGET.

SO, SO, BUT YEAH, IF YOU GO TO, UM, ONE PAGE 72, YOU WOULD SEE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT FUNDS, UM, INDIVIDUAL FUND BALANCES OF FINANCIALS.

I CAN WORK WITH YOU AFTER.

SO, UH, OF THAT 25 MILLION, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL 5% ON, ON TOP OF THAT, OR THAT'S PART OF, THAT'S PART OF IT.

THE TOTAL, THE TOTAL FUND BALANCE FROM WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN, YOU CAN EASILY ACCESS IT OR NOT EASILY ACCESS IT.

IN THE HIGHWAYS FUND WAS 25 MILLION HISTORICALLY.

IS THAT AND ON AVERAGE OF WHAT THEY NORMALLY HAVE? YEAH, WELL WE'VE BEEN, YEAH, UM, UH, THERE HASN'T BEEN THE SAME AMOUNT OF FLUCTUATION IN THE HIGHWAYS FUND BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE, THERE'S NO INCOME TAX.

SO WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT, THAT BIG INCREASE WHERE WE HAD THE BIG INCREASES IN INCOME TAX THE PAST, THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

UM, AND WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF, UM, ROADWAY RESURFACING AND THE LIKE THAT WE'VE, UM, THAT WE'VE DONE CUZ WE'VE HAD SOME POTENTIAL FUND BALANCE BECAUSE OF NOT A WHOLE LOT OF SNOW AND, AND MAKING SOME OTHER MOVEMENTS.

UM, BUT THEN WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO PUT THAT RIGHT BACK INTO THE BUDGET THE FOLLOWING YEAR.

BUT A LOT OF THOSE, UH, PROJECTS OR CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT ARE FUNDED SEPARATE OUTSIDE OF THE FUND BALANCE THOUGH, RIGHT? WELL, YOU CAN FUND HIGHWAY PROJECTS, UM, EITHER WITH CASH, SO LIKE ROADWAY RESURFACING I W IS PRETTY MUCH THAT'S ALL CASH BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT A LONG TERM ASSET.

SO WE NORMALLY USE FUND BALANCE AS BEST WE CAN TO ADDRESS ROADWAY RESURFACING.

THEN THE OTHER PROJECTS LIKE YOUR BRIDGES, UM, AND MAYBE YOUR MAJOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION, WE GENERALLY BOND THOSE, BUT THEN OF COURSE, THAT DEBT SERVICE WOULD BE PAID FOR WITH THE HIGHWAY FUND REVENUE.

THANK YOU MR. PENMAN.

UM, MR. SEK, WHEN YOU SPEAK NEXT, COULD YOU PULL THAT MIC CLOSER PLEASE? SURE.

THEY'RE NOT QUITE ABLE TO HEAR YOU.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO ASK ABOUT, UH, PERSONNEL SERVICES AND CONTRACTUAL SERVICES.

I NOTICED THAT, UM, WITH PERSONNEL SERVICES, THERE'S A REDUCTION OF A LITTLE OVER A MILLION DOLLARS IN, UH, THE FY 24 BUDGET AND CONTRACTUAL SERVICES.

THERE'S AN INCREASE OF ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS.

IS THAT, UM, PUBLIC WORKS MOVING TOWARDS USING CONTRACTUAL SERVICES TO DO THE WORK THAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN DONE BY COUNTY EMPLOYEES? OR IS THAT JUST A COINCIDENCE THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE NEARLY IDENTICAL OR, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE REDUCTION IN PERSONNEL SERVICES AND AND INCREASE IN CONTRACTUAL SERVICES? YEAH, YEAH.

A LOT OF, A LOT OF THE REDUCTION ON THE PERSONNEL SIDE, UM, IS BECAUSE OF THAT 27TH PAY.

AND THEN ALSO, UM, WE'RE CHANGING HOW WE'VE, UM, WE'RE BUDGETING FOR, FOR, UM, HEALTH INSURANCE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES, UM, THE TOTAL EMPLOYEE NUMBER IS ON PAGE, UM, 4, 4 28.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT, AT JUST, UM, THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES IS STILL 157.

SO NO CHANGE THERE.

AND IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL SALARIES, WHAT WE BUDGETED, THERE'S ALSO NO, NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE THERE ON THE CONTRACTUAL SIDE.

I THINK THAT WHAT THAT GETS TO IS PARTICULARLY, UM, THE, UM, THE, THE LARGEST COMPONENT OF THAT IS THAT INCREASE IN TREE TREE TRIMMING, UM, AND MOWING CONTRACTS, AND THEN ALSO THE STREET SWEEPER, UH, PROJECT AS WELL.

AND, AND SOME ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR PIPE REPAIRS.

, SO, YOU KNOW, A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE STORM DRAIN AND REALLY THE ASSETS IN THE COUNTY ARE COMING UP ON 25, 30, 40 YEARS OLD.

WELL, THAT'S STARTING TO FAIL.

SO WE'RE SEEING MORE NEED FOR MONEY FOR PIPE REPAIRS AND $400,000 OF THAT.

OH, I GUESS WHAT'S THE, UM, THOUGHT PROCESS BETWEEN WHAT, WHAT GETS TURNED INTO A CONTRACTED OUT JOB VERSUS, UM, MAKING SOMETHING LIKE WE'RE GONNA HIRE MORE EMPLOYEES INTO D P W TO MAKE THAT SOMETHING D P W DIRECTLY TAKES CARE OF IN REGARDS TO, UH, TREE TRIMMING PIPE REPAIRS, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, SO ON AND SO FORTH.

THAT, THAT, THAT IS A, UH, THAT IS A CHALLENGE THAT I DEAL WITH ALL THE TIME.

UH, AND IT'S A DIFFICULT ONE.

AND SOME OF THE CRITERIA THAT I USE TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS HAVE TO DO WITH, UM, IT IS A, IS IT A LONG-TERM NEED? IF IT'S NOT A LONG-TERM NEED, THEN I DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY HIRE PEOPLE TO DO IT.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO DO, AND THEY'RE VERY DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE THAT TYPE OF EXPERTISE

[00:30:01]

WITH AN IN-HOUSE PERSON.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD LEAN TOWARDS GOING OUTSIDE.

SO AMONGST SEVERAL OTHER DECISION EFFORTS, WE, WE, WE TRY TO BALANCE THOSE TO THE BEST THAT WE CAN.

UH, RECOGNIZING, UH, AGAIN, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE, WE, UH, EXECUTE OUR MISSION MM-HMM.

, UH, AS, AS BEST WE CAN WITH WHATEVER COMBINATION IS MOST, MOST EFFECTIVE.

, THANK YOU.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

UH, COUNSEL, ANYONE ELSE? MR. GUTHRIE? UH, I KNOW ROUTE 40 IS A STATE ROAD.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH INFLUENCE YOU HAVE OVER THE STATE TO TRY TO GET THE DAMN ROAD FIXED.

BUT I KNOW WHEN IT'S SOUTHERN PART OF COUNTY FROM, I DON'T KNOW WHY THE BALTIMORE COUNTY HARFORD COUNTY LINE, WHEN YOU CROSS THE BALTIMORE COUNTY LINE, YOU KNOW THE ROAD IS PERFECTLY, IT'S GOOD, IT'S A NICE ROAD, AND THEY CAN WORK ON BOTH THOSE BRIDGES THERE.

THEY'RE DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB.

YOU CROSSING THE HARFORD COUNTY AND THAT ROAD ON BOTH SIDES OF THE, OF THE ROAD FROM ALL THE WAY UP FROM THERE TO 1 52 IS, IS, IS ABSOLUTELY IN TERRIBLE CONDITION ON BOTH SIDES.

FINALLY, UM, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO START THIS WEEK ON THE SOUTHERN PART OF, UH, ROUTE 40 AT JOPPA FARM ROAD, BUT, UH, ALL THE WAY UP TO 1 52 ON BOTH SIDES.

AND, AND WHEN YOU GET, WHEN YOU CO COME UP, UH, UM, EXCUSE ME, ON ROUTE 40, WHEN YOU COME UP ROUTE 42, 1 52, UH, WHERE YOU TURN ON THE 1 52, THAT AREA THERE IS, IS ABSOLUTELY AS BAD AS THE SOUTHERN PART OF, OF, UM, ROUTE 40, UH, NEAR, UM, UH, NEAR CHAPEL FARM ROAD.

SO I KNOW WHAT, WHAT INFLUENCE DO WE HAVE TO TRY TO GET THOSE ROADS REPAIRED? UH, PEOPLE BEATING UP ON ME ALL THE TIME, AND I DON'T BLAME 'EM BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO BEAT UP ON SOMEBODY ELSE.

THEY COULD TRY TO GET IT DONE.

UM, BUT YOU CAN'T GET A LOT OF EM, UM, YOU CAN'T GET A LOT OF KICKBACK FROM THE STATE WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE GONNA DO WITH THAT ROAD.

UM, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING AS FAR AS THAT'S GOING GET REPAIRED BESIDES, YOU KNOW, THAT PROBABLY THAT ONE QUARTER OF A MILE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO, UH, AND STARTING THIS WEEK, THE REST OF IT? WELL, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHAT INFLUENCE WE HAVE, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE DIRECT INFLUENCE BECAUSE THEY'RE A STATE AGENCY AND WE'RE NOT.

HOWEVER, THAT IS PART OF THE BENEFIT THAT WE THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA GAIN FROM THESE REGULAR QUARTERLY MEETINGS THAT ARE, THAT WE ARE HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO DO.

WE BEGAN IT THIS WEEK AS A MATTER OF FACT, TO MORE ACTIVELY ENGAGE WITH NOT ONLY THE ENGINEERING FOLKS WITHIN DISTRICT FOUR, UH, WHICH IS HARTFORD AND BALTIMORE COUNTY, UH, BUT ALSO THEIR MAINTENANCE FOLKS THAT HAVE THEIR SHOP UP IN CHURCHVILLE IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF CONCERNS, LIKE YOU JUST MENTIONED AND SEVERAL OTHERS THAT WE HEAR ABOUT ARE, ARE HANDLED OR THEY'RE AWARE OF THEM, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIST THEM OUT IN EVERY MEETING WITH ACTION ITEMS TO BE ABLE TO, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY KEEP REMINDING 'EM AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

THAT'S ONE WAY WE'RE GONNA DO IT.

THE SECOND WAY WE'RE GONNA DO IT IS EVERY YEAR WE SUBMIT OUR, UH, OUR PRIORITY LETTER, WHICH IS OUR LIST OF HIGHEST PRIORITIES WITHIN THE COUNTY AND THE MUNICIPALITIES OF WHAT WE WANT THE STATE TO FOCUS ON, NOT ONLY IN THEIR CAPITAL BUDGETING, BUT ALSO IN THEIR WORK.

AND WE JUST WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS VERY, UH, UH, PRETTY ACTIVELY WITH THE STATE, UH, TO BE SURE THAT WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS ACHIEVABLE AND THEY KNOW IT, AND ALL THE BACKGROUND BEHIND IT.

SO WE, WE, WE SHARE YOUR CONCERN, WE UNDERSTAND IT, AND WE THINK THAT BY CONTINUING THE ACTIVE ENGAGEMENT WITH STEVE AND WITH, UH, GLEN LAR, CHIEF ENGINEER WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MORE SUCCESS AND MORE DIRECTION OF, UH, OF, UH, FUNDING AND ACTIVITIES BY STATE HIGHWAY WITHIN HARPER COUNTY.

YEAH, JUST ALWAYS WONDERED CAUSE I LIVE IN CHOP TOWN AND COME OUT, IF I GO SOUTH AND I, AS SOON AS I CROSS IN THE BALMER COUNTY LINE, UH, UM, I NOTICE HOW MUCH BETTER THE ROADS ARE.

I, I CAN'T UNDERSTAND.

IT'S THE SAME ROUTE 40, YOU KNOW, CROSS INTO HARFORD COUNTY AND UP TO 1 52, YOU NEED A TANK.

I MEAN, ROADS ARE THAT BAD, PARTICULARLY GOING SOUTH.

I MEAN, IT IS REALLY BAD.

UNDERSTOOD.

PUSHED AND PUSHED AND DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT? I THINK THEY, I THINK THEY PUSHED THAT ONE MORE YEAR.

THANK YOU, MR. GARRY.

MR. GINGER, YOU'RE DRIVING A TANK.

YOU GOT A LINCOLN .

UM, DO THEY GIVE YOU A LIST OF ROADS THAT THEY'RE GONNA WORK ON, UM, THAT, THAT'S GONNA GET REPAIRED? THE STATE? DO THEY, DO THEY COMMUNICATE WITH YOU GUYS AT ALL? THE STATE SHARES THEIR ADVERTISEMENT SCHEDULE, SO WE KNOW THE, THE PROJECTS THAT THEY'RE, UH, GONNA DO.

UM, OKAY, SO THE ANSWER IS YES.

NOW, THERE MAY BE BREAKOUT PROJECTS WHERE IT'S A, A CLUMP OF ROADS THAT THEY'RE GONNA RESURFACE.

SO WE, WE CAN FIND OUT INFORMATION FROM STATE.

HOW I CERTAINLY ASK THEM.

SO I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIND OUT, I WAS TOLD LAST YEAR THAT THEY WERE GONNA REPAY ROUTE ONE RIGHT OUT HERE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, UH, OR THE BMW DEALERSHIP.

BUT I CAN'T GET AN ANSWER FROM ANYBODY OF WHEN IT'S GONNA HAPPEN.

I WAS TOLD THIS YEAR, I, I'VE PUSHED AND

[00:35:01]

WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT THE OTHER DAY, BUT WE CAN VERIFY THAT AND WE'LL GET THAT INFORMATION BACK.

UM, IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNSEL, MR. TIBBS, JOE, UH, UH, YOU MENTIONED, UH, TREE TRIMMING ON THE RURAL ROADS.

I KNOW DURING THIS WINTER, AND I'M ANTICIPATING DURING THE SPRING WHEN THE LEAVES GET OUT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT MORE TREES COMING ACROSS THESE ROADS THAT ARE CLOSING THEM, UH, THE DEAD ASH TREES THAT ARE ALONG THE COUNTY ROADS.

HOW ARE YOU HANDLING THAT? UH, I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING SPECIAL THAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE ASHES OTHER THAN THE, THE NUMBER OF DEAD TREES HAS INCREASED WITH THAT EMERALD ASH BOARD ISSUE.

UM, SO WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING SPECIAL TREES THAT COME DOWN ACROSS COUNTY ROADS.

WE, WE REMOVE, UM, ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT? YEAH, BUT YOU, YOU HAVE NO PLAN TO TAKE, TAKE THOSE DEAD ONES OUT OR HOW IS THAT? WELL, ANY COMPLAINT WE GET OR ANY, ANY OBSERVATION THAT ASSISTANT HAS, WE, WE SEND FOLKS OUT TO LOOK AT IF THE TREE IS DEAD OR DECLINING AND, AND, AND IS, UH, IMPENDING HAZARD, WE'LL ADDRESS IT CERTAINLY.

BUT EACH ONE IS LOOKED AT AND, UH, IF WE FEEL THAT, BUT THERE'S NO LONG-TERM PLAN AS FAR AS CLEANING UP SOME OF THESE RURAL ROADS AS FAR AS THESE DEAD TREES.

AND I MEAN, I KNOW HERE IN THE LAST, I'M GONNA SAY LAST MONTH, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF COUNTY ROADS CLOSED BECAUSE OF STORM DAMAGE.

AND, AND, UM, IN THAT COULD BE PREVENTED IF WE TOOK CARE OF SOME OF THESE TREES.

IF THE, IF THE TREE I I IMPACTS THE ROAD AND WE IDENTIFY IT, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IT.

IF, IF IT'S ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND NOT GONNA IMPACT ANYTHING, WE WON'T.

SO YOU NEED THE CITIZENS TO CALL YOU, IN OTHER WORDS.

THAT'S CORRECT.

THANK YOU, MS. HAN.

, THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION HAD INSTITUTED CLICK IT, WE FIX IT, IT WORKED VERY WELL.

AND I DON'T FIND IT ON THE WEBSITE.

IS THERE A PROGRAM SIMILAR TO THAT THAT'S STILL ONGOING? UH, THAT, THAT STILL SHOULD BE ON THE WEBSITE? WE STILL USE THAT.

IT'S NOT VERY EVIDENT.

THANK YOU, MR. HURT ON YOUR HONOR, MR. BROOKS, I MEAN SURE.

UM, MR. SANDIS, THIS MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT I CAN TALK WITH YOU LATER ON, BUT THE FUND BALANCE DISCUSSION THAT YOU BROUGHT UP WITH THE 25 MILLION ON PAGE 73, WHICH IT'S NOT THE SAME 73 AS THAT SMALLER BOOK, IT'S IN THE BIG BINDER.

UM, THE FUND BALANCE APPROPRIATION, UH, TO THE BUDGET IS ALMOST 2 MILLION INCREASED FROM 2023 TO 2024.

WHEN YOU SAID THAT 25 MILLION, THERE'S 11.9 BEING USED IN 24, IS THAT ACTUALLY, UH, BEING APPROPRIATED TO MAKE UP FOR A REVENUE SHORTFALL OR IS THAT BEING POCKETED LIKE THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT? NO, NO, NO.

A ANY OF THIS, UM, AND I'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT, UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES I'M LOOKING AT, AT WHAT, WHERE, WHERE WE CLOSED LAST YEAR VERSUS WHAT WAS IN, WHAT WAS IN BUDGET.

UM, BUT WHEN YOU EVER, WHEN, WHEN, ANY TIME THAT YOU WOULD SEE, UM, APPROPRIATED FUND BALANCE AS IN, IN THE REVENUE PIE CHART, IF YOU WILL.

SO YOU WERE, I'M SORRY, YOU WERE RE-ROLLING PAGE WHAT? UM, BOTTOM OF 73, THE SUMMARY OF REVENUE SOURCES.

LIKE I SAID, I MIGHT BE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU WERE SAYING EARLIER, BUT I'M, I'M NOT SURE I'M SEEING HERE 73 OH YEAH, I'M SORRY.

HERE, FUND BALANCE.

SO YEAH, FUND BALANCE APPROPRIATION IS ALWAYS THE AMOUNT OF FUND BALANCE YOU'RE USING, UM, TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.

SO YOU HAVE YOUR REVENUES, YOU KNOW, YOUR PROPERTY TAX, YOUR, UM, THAT INTERGOVERNMENTAL SHARED TAX AT YOUR HIGHWAY, USER REVENUE, THEN YOU GOT YOUR, YOUR LITTLE ONES.

AND THEN, SO YES, SO IN FISCAL YEAR 24, WE ARE USING ALMOST 12 MILLION OF, OF FUND BALANCE, WHEREAS IN THE PRIOR YEAR, WE USED ABOUT 10 MILLION OF FUND BALANCE.

EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT SIMILAR.

SO ROUGHLY HALF OF THAT 25 MILLION THAT YOU NOTED AS A RESERVE WILL BE USED POTENTIALLY IN 24? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A RUNNING TARGET BECAUSE NOW WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH SNOW THIS YEAR.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, UM, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, OUR FUND BOUNDS WOULD'VE GROWN, BUT THEN WE'RE KIND OF REINVESTING IT THE, THE FOLLOWING YEAR.

SO THANK YOU.

SO MS. MOON, I JUST WANT TO ANSWER.

SO IN YOUR, IN YOUR CAPITAL BUDGET, IT'S USUALLY LISTED AS PAYGO, RIGHT? WELL, YEAH.

SO PAYGO IS A, UM, IS A, IS A FUNDING IS A FUNDING SOURCE WITHIN THE CAPITAL BUDGET.

BUT FI THERE'S A, THERE'S A PRETTY STRONG CORRELATION OFTENTIMES BETWEEN OUR PAYGO NUMBER AND OUR FUND BALANCE NUMBER BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS WE TRY TO DO WITH FUND BALANCE IS TO USE IT FOR ONE TIME EXPENDITURES.

THIS GUY, THE CONVERSATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE STRUCTURAL ISSUES.

UM, SO IDEALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD, YOU SHOULD SEE THE AMOUNT OF FUND BALANCE USED, UM, CLOSELY TRACKING PAYGO IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL.

BUT AGAIN, SOMETIMES IT CAN'T BE BECAUSE WE NEED THAT, THAT MONEY TO JUST FUND, YOU KNOW, NORMAL OPERATING EXPENSES.

UM, BUT SIMILAR, NOT

[00:40:01]

MR. PENTON, JUST A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THE FUND BALANCE, UM, WITH THE 12, ROUGHLY THIS UNDER, UNDER 12 FUND BALANCE APPROPRIATION, DOES THAT MEAN WITH A 25 THERE WOULD BE 37 MILLION IN THERE AND THEY'RE USING 12 AND THEN STILL REMAIN 25 MILLION? YEAH, SO, SO WE DIDN'T USE, AND IT'S, AND IT'S SOMEWHAT, YOU KNOW, WE YOU APPROPRIATE FUND BALANCE AT, AT, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR SAYING, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT YOU EXPECT YOUR REVENUES TO BE IN YOUR EXPENDITURES TO BE.

AND YOU ALWAYS KNOW THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE, UM, YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE SOME SAVINGS WHEN THE EXPENDITURE SIDE, MAYBE THERE'S NO SNOW, YOU HAVE POSITION VACANCIES, YOU HAVE THINGS LIKE THAT.

UM, AND SO THEN YOU KIND OF HAVE A NEW, UM, AVAILABLE FUND BALANCE.

BUT THEN GENERALLY WHAT WE DO IS THEN WE END UP TAKING MOST OF THAT AND JUST KIND OF RECYCLING IT INTO THE NEXT, INTO THE NEXT BUDGET YEAR.

UM, SO THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SAYING HERE IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR WE PLANNED ON USING, UM, WHAT WHATEVER WAS ABOUT 10 MILLION OF, OF FUND BALANCE, WE, WE REALLY DIDN'T NEED TO USE TOO MUCH OF IT BECAUSE OF NO SNOW AND SOME SALARY SAVINGS AND SOME THINGS, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.

UM, SO OUR FUND BALANCE, AND I'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THE EXACT NUMBER WOULD'VE, WOULD'VE, WOULD'VE SHAKEN OUT, BUT I THINK THAT OUR FUND BALANCE WOULD'VE GROWN, WHICH IS WHY NOW WE CAN DO INSTEAD OF 10 12, BUT IF WE FOUND IT GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION, IF WE ACTUALLY NEEDED TO USE THAT FUND BALANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE SALARY SAVINGS, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE, OF THOSE SAVINGS.

UM, WE WOULD HAVE TO USE LESS FUND BALANCE NEXT YEAR IF, IF ANY AT ALL.

I JUST WANT TO CON IS, IS THE ACTUAL FUND BALANCE, UH, NUMBERS IN THAT SMALLER BINDER BOOK THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT? SO, UM, WHICH I DON'T HAVE IN FRONT OF ME, I MAY HAVE UPSTAIRS BAY BINDER YOU HAVE, YEAH.

SO, BUT I WILL SAY THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UM, THE YES, IT IS, IT IS ON PAGE, PAGE, PAGE 29.

SO, UM, YEAH, WE'RE EXPECTING, UM, YEAH, SO WE STARTED OFF WITH 25, 20 5 MILLION.

UM, ACTUALLY DO EXPECT THAT TO, TO DROP, UM, TO DROP SOMEWHAT IN THE CURRIER EVEN WITH THOSE SNOW SALARY SAVINGS.

BUT WE'RE USING MORE OF THE REMAINING FUND BALANCE IN NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, UM, IN ORDER TO, TO ADDRESS A LOT OF THESE RESURFACING ISSUES.

UM, YOU KNOW, MEANING THAT, THAT PROBABLY IN THE FUTURE WE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO AS MUCH FUND BALANCE AS WE'RE DOING THIS YEAR.

BUT I, I WILL SAY THAT THIS, THIS BOOK HERE, THE ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL REPORT, AND THESE ARE ACTUALS, THIS IS AUDITED NUMBERS THAT THEY COME IN AND, AND, AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU HAD AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

UM, BUDGET'S A PLAN, YOU KNOW, SO BUDGET'S ALWAYS KIND OF A FORECAST AND YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, YOU START OFF WITH A, WITH A REAL NUMBER, THAT 25 MILLION NUMBER, UM, THEN YOU SAY, OKAY, THIS YEAR WE STILL GOT A A FEW MONTHS TO GO.

WHAT DO WE EXPECT THE REVENUE TO BE? WHAT DO WE EXPECT THE EXPENDITURES TO BE? OKAY, WHEN IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE, 21 MILLION, THEN YOU COME IN AND YOU SAY, OKAY, OF THAT AMOUNT, YOU HAVE ABOUT 17 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS THAT WE FIGURED THAT, THAT THAT CAN BE, UM, THAT CAN BE USED, IF YOU WILL.

AND WE'RE SAYING THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE ABOUT ABOUT 12 MILLION OF IT.

UM, AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THERE.

LE LEAVING 5.5 MILLION FOR, FOR FUTURE YEARS.

NOW, AGAIN, IN NEXT YEAR, YOU KNOW, WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE SOME SALARY SAVINGS AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE SOME SNOW SAVINGS AND SOME THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO HOPEFULLY WHEN WE GET TO NEXT YEAR, UM, WE WOULD FIND OURSELVES, UM, WITH, WITH SOME ADDITIONAL FUND BALANCE TO USE BEYOND THAT 5.5 MILLION.

UM, BUT WE KINDA HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT, THAT PLAYS OUT.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S NO OTHER BUDGET THAT'S DEPENDENT ON WEATHER IN THE WAY THAT HIGHWAYS, HIGHWAYS IS.

NO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO, UH, JUST SO CONFIRMING, AND I THINK 29 CLARIFIES IT MORE.

THE FUND BALANCE FOR THE HIGHWAYS IS 17 AND A HALF MINUS THE 12 THAT YOU WE'RE, WE'RE YEP.

PROTECTING THE USE.

SO THAT REALLY, THE FUND BALANCE IS FIVE AND A HALF MILLION ROUGHLY.

THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD EXPECT IT TO BE, KIND OF AT THE AVAILABLE FUND BALANCE.

AT THE, AT THE END OF NEXT YEAR.

BUT IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S THIS IS, THIS IS AN ESTIMATE, WHEREAS LIKE THE 25 NUMBER, THAT'S A, THAT'S AN AUDITED NUMBER.

AND THEN BEYOND THAT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ESTIMATES, BUT WE ARE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE USING 12 MILLION, SO WE'RE ASSUMING THAT THAT IN THIS, IN THIS CHART, THAT WE ARE GOING TO USE ALL OF THAT 12 MILLION AND THAT OUR, WE'RE GONNA SPEND ALL OF THE BUDGET AND THE REVENUES ARE GONNA GONNA COME IN EXACTLY WHERE THEY'RE BUDGETED.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, UNDER THAT ASSUMPTION, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD LEAVE US WITH 5.5 MILLION.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'LL PROBABLY BE A LITTLE BIT TO THE GOOD OF THAT, UM, BECAUSE WE'LL PROB HOPEFULLY HAVE SOME, UH, SALARY SAVINGS AND HOPEFULLY WE WON'T HAVE A LOT OF SNOW THAT WOULD GO OVER OUR SNOW BUDGET.

YES, MR. ISH.

ROBBIE, LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY, , BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS AND EVERYTHING WE JUST ANSWERED THAT QUESTION WITH.

SO THAT'S WHAT BUDGET, THE NUMBER BUDGET'S A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS.

I'M WITH, I'M WITH YOU.

[00:45:01]

GOT YOU.

SO HERE HE IS.

SO THE NUMBERS THAT COUNCILMAN PENMAN IS LOOKING AT ARE FROM THE CAFF R, WHICH ARE AUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS FROM SIX 30 OF LAST YEAR.

SO THERE'S NOTHING IN THERE ABOUT THIS YEAR OR ANYTHING THAT'S ALREADY SNOW THAT WE'RE SAVINGS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO MY QUESTION BECOMES, AS A CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION, ARE THE PRIORITIES THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE OUTLINING IN THIS BUDGET, WHAT IS THE PRIORITIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO USE THAT FUND BALANCE TO DECREASE IT TO THE NUMBERS THAT YOU JUST STATED, THAT IT COULD BE DECREASED TO, LIKE WHERE, WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING TO BE SPENT? BECAUSE IT'S NOT STORM WATER WHERE WE'RE WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN.

THERE'S ROADS AND, AND PROJECTS THAT WE CAN DO ALL THE TIME AROUND THE COUNTY.

SO IS THERE AN APPETITE TO USE THAT FUND BALANCE, I THINK IS MY QUESTION.

WELL, AND, AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IS THAT IF, IF IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET THERE WAS 10 MILLION AND IN THIS YEAR'S OF, OF OF BUDGETED FUND BALANCE, YOU KNOW, AS FROM A BUDGETED, YOU KNOW, A REVENUE IN ORDER TO PLUG THE GAP, AND NOW IT'S 12, WE ARE USING 2 MILLION MORE OF IT AND IT'S LARGELY GOING TO ROADWAY RESURFACING.

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK ROADWAY RESURFACING HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE BIG ISSUE.

AND, AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN THEY, THEY CAN SPEAK TO IT MUCH BETTER THAN I THAN I CAN, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A THOUSAND ROAD MILES, UH, OF COUNTY ROADS IN THIS, IN THIS, IN THIS COUNTY.

UM, AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE, HAVE NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVE, I MEAN THEY, THEY DO THEIR BEST OBVIOUSLY TO ADDRESS 'EM AS AS, AS BEST THEY CAN AND ALL, BUT WE, WE PROBABLY NEED TO BE SPENDING MORE ON THE RIGHT WAY RESURFACING THAN, THAN WE ARE.

THE PROBLEM WITH THIS BUDGET IS, I'M SORRY, REALLY WHAT THIS FUND IS, IS IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF REVENUE FLEXIBILITY.

YOU HAVE PROPERTY TAX, SO, SO I MEAN, YOU COULD ALWAYS RAISE THE, THE SAVINGS.

YEAH, YEAH.

WELL, YEAH, AND YOU HAVE SAVINGS AND THEN YOU HAVE HIGHWAY USER REVENUE.

NOW, 10, 12 YEARS AGO, WE WERE BRINGING IN 12 15 MILLION OF HIGHWAY USER REVENUE.

NOW WE'RE BRINGING IN THREE 4 MILLION.

NOW THE, THE STATE DID BUMP IT UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE A FEW YEARS AGO IT WAS ONLY TWO.

UM, BUT THEY'RE NOWHERE NEAR GOING BACK TO WHERE TO WHERE THEY ARE.

AND THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE WITH, WITH, UH, WITH THE STATE OF MARYLAND IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WAY IT USED TO KIND OF, THE, THE IDEA IS THAT THE, THE, THE, THE STATE'S TRANSPORTATION TRUST FUND IS PRIMARILY FUNDED WITH GAS TAX AND WITH, UM, VEHICLE REGISTRATION.

THERE'S SOME OTHER LITTLE SMALLER REVENUES IN THERE, AND THE COUNTIES USED TO GET ABOUT 30% OF THAT, OF THAT TRUST FUND.

AND NOW WE GET FAR, FAR LESS THAN THAT THAN THAT AMOUNT, BUT WE STILL HAVE ALL OF THESE COUNTY ROADS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY REALLY HAVE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF WITH PROPERTY TAXES, WHEREAS THE STATE IS ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR ROADS AND THEIR TRANSIT PROJECTS LARGELY WITH TRANSPORTATION TRUST FUND REVENUES.

BUT, BUT IN A YEAR WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE SNOW, THAT WE TYPICALLY DO MORE ROAD RESURFACING.

SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION CHANGE WELL, THE FOLLOWING YEAR.

BECAUSE BY THE TIME WE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S GONNA DROP THE FUND BALANCE AND YOU'RE GONNA REALLOCATE IT.

SURE, YEP.

BUT I, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IF, IF THE 25 MILLION IS A NUMBER THAT'S TOO HIGH IS WHAT I THINK YOU'RE SAYING, THEN WHAT? OH, AFTER 2 30, 30, I, I'M, I'M LOST WITH WHERE WE WANT THAT NUMBER TO BE SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS CITIZENS CAN EXPECT THE COUNTY TO YOU.

I UNDERSTAND IT, CUZ CATASTROPHIC EVENT CAN COME AND WE NEED THE MONEY FOR THE RAINY DAY.

THE RAINY DAY.

I'M GOOD WITH THAT.

THAT'S PROPER BUDGET.

SO, SO YEAH.

SO I, I, AGAIN, I THINK I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PRIORITIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

IF, IF THAT'S NOT HERE, I, I'M GONNA BRING THIS UP AGAIN NEXT YEAR IS WHAT I'M SAYING, IF THAT FUND BALANCE GROWS YEAH, BECAUSE THAT, THAT I DON'T THINK MAKES SENSE TO ANYBODY THAT IS SITTING ON THIS COUNCIL.

WELL AGAIN, YOU'RE ALWAYS, YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE SOME, SOME FLUCTUATION IN THIS BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER, BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER FACTOR.

NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE SO WHY NOT USE, YEAH, SO THIS IS, AND SO YEAH, WHAT IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU NEED TO DEFINITELY KEEP 5% AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT IS THAT NUMBER? WHAT IS 5% CAN WE GET, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT TODAY, CAN WE GET THAT NUMBER? NO, SO I HAVE IT HERE.

IF YOU ADD UP ALL DPW, IS THAT, SO YOU NEED, I WOULD SAY YOU NEED 5%, LET ME 5% OF D P W OR OF HIGHWAYS OF, OF THE HIGHWAYS FUND.

SO FOR, SO IN THE CASE OF THE FISCAL STABILIZATION FUND, THAT'S A, THAT'S ABOUT THREE, $3 MILLION.

SO APPROXIMATELY, APPROXIMATELY 3 MILLION.

THEN, THEN IN ADDITION TO TO TO THAT, AND THEN SOMETIMES IT, THERE, THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS IN HERE, YOU KNOW, TOO, WHICH DEAL WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT'S IN RESTRICTED, UM, YOU KNOW, OR, OR THINGS LIKE BOND PROCEEDS OR THERE'S SOME PILOT MONEY.

UM, THERE MAY BE SOME ENCUMBRANCES.

SO SOME OF THAT FLUCTUATES FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

BUT THEN IF YOU JUST TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S LEFT OVER, YOU KNOW, I THINK IDEALLY YOU NEED TO TRY TO KEEP AROUND 5 MILLION OR SO IN THERE BECAUSE OF WHAT, WHAT, I MEAN WHAT DO WE BUDGET? WE BUDGET FOR WEATHER AND I'M SORRY FOR SNOW REMOVAL.

UM, UH, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHATEVER IT IS, EVEN IF WE DON'T HAVE IT, YEAH, NO, NO, WE HAVE IT, IT, IT'S, NO, WE DON'T HAVE SNOW.

WE STILL, WE HAVE TO BUDGET, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT, I MEAN THAT'S THE THING.

ALL OF THE, YOU CAN NEVER EXCEED YOUR APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY WITHOUT, WITHOUT THE, UM, UH, WITHOUT THE COUNCIL APPROVAL.

SO WE, WHAT WE BUDGETED FOR WEATHER, I'M SORRY FOR SNOW REMOVAL IS, IS IT 4 4 30? OH YEAH.

4 38.

SO WE'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TO THE GOOD ON THOSE YEARS.

UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE BUDGETED LINE THERE.

UM, AND YOU CAN SEE FISCAL YEAR 21 AND FISCAL YEAR 22.

[00:50:01]

HOWEVER, IF YOU GO BACK, YOU KNOW, A FEW YEARS BEFORE THAT, YOU WILL FIND SOME NUMBERS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT EXCEED THAT, THAT EXCEED THAT NUMBER.

BUT TO CLARIFY THE ADMINISTRATION PRIORITY WOULD BE TO USE THAT SAVINGS FOR RE ROAD RE OR SO LIKE INSTEAD OF IT JUST GOING INTO A FUND BALANCE AND SITTING THERE.

YEAH, CORRECT.

FUN BALANCE IS GREAT UNTIL WE'RE TRYING, YES.

WE'RE WE, WERE TALKING A LOT ABOUT FUND BALANCE THIS YEAR ACROSS THE BOARD.

SO I THINK IT'S FAIR TO TALK ABOUT IT HERE AS, AS WELL AND AGREED.

AND THAT'S WHY WE, AND AND ROADWAY RESURFACING IS A, IS A GREAT USE OF, OF FUND BALANCE BECAUSE WHILE IT'S, IT IS SOMEWHAT OF AN ONGOING THING, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO, BUT YOU HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY.

IT'S A LOT DIFFERENT THAN SAY, PAYING SALARIES OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND SO YES, IF YOU LOOK AT, WE CAN GO TO THE, IN THE, WHAT DO WE HAVE ON THE CAP OR FOR, I'M GONNA SKIP AHEAD A LITTLE BIT HERE.

WHOOPS.

ON UH, ROADWAY RESURFACING.

SO WE HAVE, UM, WE HAVE UH, UH, YEAH, SO WE HAVE ABOUT 10, ABOUT, UH, $9.3 MILLION IN, IN IN ROADWAY, IN ROADWAY RESURFACING NOW.

UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN AGAIN LOOK AT, AT WHAT WE'VE DONE IN, IN PRIOR YEARS.

I MEAN I CAN REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST CAME HERE ROADWAY RESURFACING, WE WERE PROBABLY DOING SOMETHING AROUND LIKE 5 MILLION OR WAS, THAT'S CUZ THE HIGHWAY USER WASN'T THERE.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

AND WE HAD SNOW.

WELL, AND WE ALSO KIND OF MADE SOME DECISIONS, UM, IN THE, IN THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION TO FREE UP SOME MONEY BECAUSE BACK WHEN THE HIGHWAY FUND WAS DOING REALLY WELL, WE ACTUALLY USED TO SEND SOME, SOME MONEY TO PAY, YOU KNOW, TO OFFSET LIKE SCHOOL BUS COSTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

UM, IT DIDN'T NECESSARILY CHANGE ANY OF THOSE EXPENDITURES, BUT WE, WE JUSTIFIED IT AND SAID, OH, THERE'S SOME TRANSPORTATION RELATED COSTS IN THE GENERAL FUND.

WE'RE GONNA TRANSFER MONEY FROM THE HIGHWAYS FUND TO THE GENERAL FUND BECAUSE THE HIGHWAYS FUND HAD ALL THAT, THAT HIGHWAY USER REVENUE.

UM, AND ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO SOME MORE ROADWAY RESURFACING IS THAT, IS THAT WE, WE DID STOP THAT, STOP THAT TRANSFER.

AND THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THAT, THAT REVENUE GROWTH IN THIS BUDGET.

I JUST THINK THE 25 MILLIONS WITH STICKING OUT SO WE COULD USE AND IF THAT COMES DOWN, I THINK THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR BECAUSE WE CAN'T FIND THAT NUMBER UNTIL WE GET TO JUNE.

THEN WE HAVE TO GIVE YOU GUYS ANOTHER YEAR TO BE ABLE TO USE IT.

SO YEAH.

YEAH, THAT'S ALL SAID.

AND WE'RE GONNA DO CAP SEPARATE, RIGHT? CAUSE I'LL HOLD UNTIL CAP FOR THAT.

I HAVE ANOTHER ONE.

SO IF WE'RE GOOD ON, WE CAN GO TO, WE CAN GO TO CAPITAL, RIGHT? YES.

LET'S MOVE ON.

OKAY, SO THEN IN YOUR CAPITAL BOOK, UM, UH, BRAY, HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE, MR. SCHER.

I THINK JUST TO ADD TO MR. AISH AND MR. PEN'S POINT, I THINK OUR QUESTION, AND MAYBE WE'LL SAVE IT FOR TREASURY LATER TODAY, I THINK I AGREE WITH WHAT MR. AISH IS SAYING ABOUT THE BALANCE.

WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO ABLE TO CONTROL THAT ON THE GENERAL FUND SIDE, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE DO WIND UP USING THAT FOR, I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE IS ASKING OR SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE FLEXIBILITY, BUT IN THE BRIEF AND THE MISSION OF THIS NEW BUDGET WITH REVENUES, ASSUMING THEY COME IN LOW, WE'RE FORCING THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND HARTFORD COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND THE LIBRARIES TO USE RESERVES, WHICH THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO CONTROL THAT IN TERMS OF THE FUND BALANCE.

CAUSE WE'RE ONLY APPROPRIATING SO MUCH.

SO WE'RE GUARANTEEING THAT THEY'LL SPEND CASH.

WE'RE NOT GUARANTEEING ON OUR SIDE THAT WE WILL.

AND I THINK MR. ANDERS IS SAYING, IF WE COME IN WITH A SURPLUS, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF REVENUES ARE BAD IN 24, WE, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH THAT SURPLUS? AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'LL HAVE TO TALK ABOUT.

MAYBE A TREASURY, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CONCERN IS HERE.

WE'RE GUARANTEEING THESE PEOPLE WILL GET CUT, AND IF A RECESSION DOES COME AND THIS PROJECTION IS REAL, WE'VE NOW SPENT CASH AND CAP SURPLUS, AND THEY WON'T HAVE ANYTHING FROM US IF REVENUES REALLY DO GET BANNED.

I THINK IT'S THE CONCERN.

AND AGAIN, AND THIS IS A, THIS IS A SEPARATE FUND FROM, FROM THE GENERAL FUND.

SO, SO AGAIN, ALL OF THE REVENUES AND ALL THE EXPENSES RELATED TO, UM, RELATED TO HIGHWAYS ARE KEPT, ARE KEPT SEPARATE.

UM, AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT, THAT WE HAVE ANY MONEY THAT'S LEFT OVER, UM, IT IS THEN AVAILABLE FOR, FOR, FOR PRIOR, UM, FOR PRIOR APPROPRIATION.

AND THIS IS, THIS IS THE CHALLENGE OF, OF A LOT OF, OF BUDGETING.

YOU, YOU, YOU'RE TRYING TO BUDGET FOR 18 MONTHS INTO THE FUTURE.

SO YOU'RE TRYING TO BE REALISTIC WITH YOUR REVENUE PROJECTIONS AND YOU'RE TRYING TO BE REALISTIC WITH YOUR EXPENDITURE PROJECTIONS, BUT YOU ARE KEEPING FUN BALANCE AVAILABLE.

YOU ARE USING, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CERTAINLY USING SOME OF IT AND SOMETIMES A GOOD DEAL OF IT, BUT YOU ARE STILL MINDFUL OF, OKAY, IF YOU HAVE BAD WEATHER, IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY, IF A REVENUE IS CUT MID-YEAR, BACK IN 2010, HIGHWAY USER REVENUE WAS CUT BY THE STATE IN, UM, IN AUGUST.

UM, WE JUST STARTED IT AND THEY CUT IT 90%.

IT WENT FROM ABOUT 15 MILLION TO ABOUT A MILLION OR SOMETHING A MONTH OR TWO INTO WHEN THE, UM, THE BUDGET WAS SET.

SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT JUST SPEAKS TO THAT PRUDENT SENSE OF, OF, OF BUDGETING IS WHY WE DO THOUGH OBVIOUSLY SHOW, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT OUR, WHAT OUR AVAILABLE FUND BALANCE IS EACH AND EVERY YEAR SO THAT WE CAN TRY TO STRIKE THAT BALANCE OF, OKAY, HOW MUCH SHOULD WE USE FOR THE PRIOR, FOR THE NEXT YEAR? HOW MUCH SHOULD WE DO WE THINK IS REASONABLE TO KEEP BACK.

THANK YOU

[00:55:01]

MR. SCHERZER.

UM, WHENEVER YOU'RE READY TO MOVE ON.

SO HIGHWAYS, IF YOU GO IN THE CAPITAL BOOK TO PAGE, UH, 2 64, YOU'LL SEE, UM, AND, AND, UH, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL LEAVE IT TO THE D P W TO, TO, UM, ADDRESS INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS.

UH, BUT ON 2, 2 84, YOU'LL SEE KIND OF THE LISTING OF ALL OF THE, THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE, UM, ON THE HIGHWAYS SIDE.

UM, I'M SORRY, THIS IS, YEAH, YEAH, THAT IS, UM, YEAH, THAT'S BRIDGES.

IT'S OKAY.

UM, ALL OF THE BRIDGES PROJECTS ARE ON, UM, GOT SOME LEFT ARE ON PAGE, UH, 2 84.

THEN ON PAGE, UM, 3 28, YOU'LL SEE VARIOUS, UM, ROAD PROJECTS, UH, THINGS ALONG THE, THE LINES OF, UH, TRAFFIC SIGNALS AND, UH, INDIVIDUAL ROADS, UH, THERE.

THEN ON PAGE 3 54, YOU WILL SEE RESURFACING, UM, AS A PROJECT.

AND THEN FINALLY ON PAGE 3 58, YOU'LL SEE KIND OF YOUR HIGHWAYS, MISCELLANEOUS, THIS IS LARGELY YOUR FLEET.

UM, AND, UH, SOME OF YOUR IT EXPENDITURES DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE HIGHWAYS FUND.

UM, UH, THOSE ARE OBVIOUSLY OUR FLEETS UNDER, IS UNDER OUR FLEET, UH, DEPARTMENT, AND IT IS UNDER THE IT DEPARTMENT.

BUT, UH, SINCE THEY'RE RELATED TO THIS FUND, UM, THEY ARE SHOWED SEPARATELY.

SO, THANKS.

GOOD MORNING.

GLENN HEK WITH BUREAU OF HIGHWAY ENGINEERING.

THE CAPITAL HIGHWAY BUDGET CONSISTS OF PROJECTS AND PROGRAMS DEDICATED TO BRIDGES, ROADWAYS, AND ROAD RESURFACING.

SO I'M GONNA START WITH BRIDGES.

UH, AS STEVE MENTIONED, WE HAVE A TOTAL OF 225 BRIDGES FOR ROADS AND OVER ROADS IN THE COUNTY FOR FY 24.

WE ARE PROPOSING FUNDING FOR A TOTAL OF NINE BRIDGE PROJECTS AND FIVE ONGOING CAPITAL BRIDGE PROGRAMS. SUMMARIZING THE NINE BRIDGES, WE ARE REQUESTING CONSTRUCTION FUNDING FOR THREE BRIDGE PROJECTS, INCLUDING THE REPLACEMENT OF BOGGS ROAD BRIDGE OVER LONG BRANCH AND THE REHABILITATION OF DEEP RUN ROAD BRIDGE OVER DEEP RUN.

WE ARE PROPOSING NEW DESIGN FUNDING FOR TWO NEW BRIDGE REPLACEMENT PROJECTS.

WE ARE PROPOSING ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR DESIGN LAND ACQUISITION AND CONSTRUCTION OF UTILITY RELOCATIONS FOR FOUR CURRENT CAPITAL BRIDGE PROJECTS.

UH, BRIDGES OVER 20 FEET IN LENGTH ARE ELIGIBLE FOR FEDERAL FUNDING.

SO WE ARE REQUESTING FEDERAL FUNDING FOR THE BRIDGES THAT QUALIFY, AND THAT WOULD BE 80% OF THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION COSTS FOR FEDERAL FUNDS.

AND 20% WOULD BE COUNTY FUNDS.

CAPITAL BRIDGE PROGRAMS INCLUDE BRIDGE INSPECTION, BRIDGE AND CULVERT REHABILITATION.

AGING STREET LIGHTS FOR REPAIRS.

BRIDGE AND ROAD SCOUR REPAIRS AND BRIDGE PAINTING, BRIDGE INSPECTION AND FY 24 ARE FOR STRUCTURES GREATER THAN 20 FEET IN LENGTH.

THIS BRIDGE INSPECTION IS A FEDERAL MANDATED PROGRAM AND HELPS THE ENGINEERING STAFF IDENTIFY PROBLEM AREAS ON THE COUNTY'S BRIDGE STRUCTURES AND PRIORITIZE THE BRIDGE REPAIRS AND REPLACEMENTS.

THIS ITEM WILL BE A HUNDRED PERCENT FEDERALLY FUNDED SINCE THE BRIDGES ARE OVER 20 FEET IN LENGTH.

FUNDING PROPOSED IN THE BRIDGING CULVERT REHABILITATION PROGRAM WILL ALLOW D P W TO REPAIR BRIDGING CULVERT STRUCTURES USING OUR HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE CREWS AND WITH OUR OPEN END CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS.

MOVING ON TO ROADS, WE HAVE A, UH, STEVE MENTIONED WE HAVE A TOTAL OF 1087 MILES OF ROADS IN HARPER COUNTY THAT ARE COUNTY MAINTAINED.

WE ARE PROPOSING FUNDING FOR TWO ROAD PROJECTS AND CONTINUED FUNDING FOR NINE ONGOING CAPITAL PROGRAMS. THESE CAPITAL PROGRAMS INCLUDE CURB, SIDEWALK, AND HANDICAP RAMPS.

THIS IS FOR BOTH REPLACEMENTS AND NEW INSTALLATIONS.

GUARDRAIL, WHICH IS FOR REPLACEMENT AND NEW INSTALLATIONS.

DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS FOR PROJECTS RELATED TO DRAINAGE ISSUES ON HARFORD COUNTY ROADWAYS INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS FOR PROJECTS RELATED TO INTERSECTION SAFETY AND CAPACITY ISSUES.

STORM DRAIN REHABILITATION TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE 288 MILES OF STORM DRAIN THAT STEVE HAD MENTIONED THAT ARE BENEATH COUNTY ROADS AND

[01:00:01]

AND, UH, CONVERSION TO L E D TRAFFIC, CALMING AND ROAD SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS AND TRAFFIC SIGNALS FOR RESURFACING.

WE HAVE A TOTAL OF 694 ASPHALT ROADS IN THE COUNTY THAT WOULD BE MAINTAINED IN THE ROAD RESURFACING PROGRAM FUNDING FOR THE ROAD RESURFACING WILL ASSIST D P W IN THE MAINTENANCE OF THESE ROADWAYS.

AS MENTIONED, WE'RE PROJECTING 9.3 MILLION TO BE REQUESTED IN FY 24, UH, LAST YEAR I THINK WE HAD 8 MILLION.

THAT QUESTION HAD COME UP.

SO WE CONTINUE TO PROPOSE INCREASED FUNDING LEVELS FOR RESURFACING TO BRING THE COUNTY ROADWAYS TO AN ACCEPTABLE CONDITION.

ADDRESS.

ANY QUESTIONS? UH, I JUST WANNA SAY, UH, PERSONALLY I APPRECIATE ALL THE PROPOSALS THAT YOU BRING TO THE BOARD OF ESTIMATES.

THEY'RE VERY, UH, LAID OUT IN DEEP DETAIL.

UH, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO HAVE A NEED FOR LAND ACQUISITION, MAYBE AN ACRE, A QUARTER ACRE, WHATEVER IT IS, IN ORDER TO GET THIS NEW BRIDGE PUT IN PLACE.

UH, I THINK THE FEDERAL FUNDING, UH, WE SEE THAT QUITE A BIT IN, IN SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT YOU BRING FORWARD.

SO, UH, I JUST WANNA SAY, I, I APPRECIATE, UH, THE, UH, PROPOSALS THAT YOU BRING FORWARD.

YES, SIR.

MR. GUTHRIE, UH, I ALSO WANT TO THANK YOU, UH, YOU'RE REAL BUSY IN RUMSEY ISLAND RIGHT NOW TO WIN EVERY SINGLE CURB AND, UH, UH, UM, FIXING UP.

SO, SO, UH, A LOT OF OUR, UH, PEOPLE THERE WHO KIDS HAVE THEIR, THEY'VE BEEN COMPLAINING FOR SOME TIME, THE KIDS IN THEIR STROLLERS, THEY CAN'T GET DOWN OFF THE CURBS AND THE GUTTERS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

AND YOU'RE JUST ABOUT HITTING EVERY SINGLE CURB IN GUTTER IN ROK RIGHT NOW.

AND THEN OF COURSE, NOW, UH, UH, PEOPLE ALWAYS GOTTA HAVE SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

LET HER COMPLAINT ABOUT THE, ALL THE CONSTRUCTION WORK THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

AND I SAID, I SAID TOUGH.

I SAID, BECAUSE SHORTLY YOU BETTER GET READY BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA START PAYING SHORT DRIVE.

I SAID, THEN YOU'LL HAVE, THEN YOU CAN REALLY COMPLAIN TO HIM.

HE COMPLAINED TO ME ABOUT THE CONDITION, AND THEN WHEN YOU STARTED DOING THE WORK, THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT, UM, YOU'RE IN THEIR WAY.

BUT I WANT TO THANK YOU.

WE'VE BEEN FOR YEARS TRYING TO GET THAT DONE AND, AND, UH, UH, SOME OF THE, EVEN THE SENIORS LIKE ME THAT CAN'T STEP OVER THE, WE APPRECIATE THE EFFORT, .

THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE.

THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL KNOW THIS OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, BUT WHEN WE HAD THAT, UH, WEATHER EVENT A YEAR OR TWO AGO, WHENEVER IT WAS, WHEN WE HAD ALL THE WIND AND ALL THE RAIN AND DID SO MUCH DAMAGE TO OUR ROADWAYS, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BRIDGES WERE IMPACTED BY THAT? DO YOU RECALL? THERE WERE QUITE A FEW.

I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER.

JOE.

DO YOU, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE BIG, THE BIG FLOODING BACK IN 2018.

I BELIEVE IT WAS 23 BRIDGES WERE DAMAGED TO SOME EXTENT.

UM, ALL OF WHICH AT THIS POINT HAVE BEEN EITHER REPAIRED OR REPLACED.

I THINK THERE'S JUST, I THINK THEY'RE ALL FINISHED AT THIS POINT.

WE, WE WERE FINISHED THE WORK.

WE JUST REPLACED THE GLENCOVE ROAD BRIDGE, UH, THAT WAS DAMAGED IN THAT STORM.

THANKS MR. GINGER.

I THINK THERE WAS PRIVATE PRI PRIVATE ROAD.

THERE WAS ONE OR TWO BRIDGES THAT WE WEREN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR.

PEOPLE COULDN'T GET INTO THEIR HOME.

I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THAT WAS.

DO YOU GUYS KNOW WHATEVER HAPPENED WITH THOSE? I, I'VE NOT HEARD ABOUT IT OR FROM IT IN THE LAST TWO, THREE YEARS, SO I PRESUME THEY GOT IT TAKEN CARE OF.

UM, WITH RESIDENTIAL AND RETAIL, WHICH WILL GREATLY IMPACT THAT INTERSECTION.

UM, ANYONE ELSE? MS. HERDON? UM, ON PAGE, UH, 3 33 ON THE, UH, CAPITAL BUDGET IS THE INTERSECTION AT BEL AIR SOUTH PARKWAY IN TOLLGATE ROUNDABOUT.

UM, THIS HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS ALMOST AS LONG AS I HAVE.

AND, UM, IT WAS AN FY 23 PROJECT.

I KNOW WE WERE TRYING TO ACQUIRE LAND FROM THE HOMEOWNER THAT OWNED THE LAND.

WHERE ARE WE IN THIS PROJECT? IT'S AT THE SAME STATUS.

WE'RE TRYING TO ACQUIRE THE LAND FROM THE, THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE WAY, ALTHOUGH THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION IS IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT, THEY HAVE TO GET THE BUY-IN OR FROM THEIR MEMBERS WHO ARE UNRESPONSIVE TO DATE.

AND, UH, THE COUNTY MAY PURSUE OTHER AVENUES.

SO IT'S BEEN 12 YEARS WITH THAT ANSWER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BUT NOW THE PROPERTY THAT IS PLUM TREE 9 24 24 BEL AIR SOUTH PARKWAY HAS BEEN CLEAR CUT.

UM, AND THE ZONING IS IN PROCESS WITH DESIGN, UM, TO BUILD UP THAT ENTIRE PROPERTY,

[01:05:01]

UM, RIGHT NOW THERE IS A STOP SIGN, UM, BUT EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO MAKE A U-TURN DOESN'T HEED THE STOP SIGN AS THEY COME OUTTA DUNKING DONUTS.

ALSO, EMERTON ELEMENTARY DOESN'T LIKE THEIR STUDENTS TO WALK.

AND SO THE CAR LINE FOR PICKUP GOES FROM THE LIBRARY TO DUNKING DONUTS ON TOLLGATE ROAD, THUS CREATING ANOTHER HAZARD IN THE AM AND PM.

SO PERHAPS YOU COULD LOOK INTO THE OTHER METHOD.

WE ARE DOING THAT.

THANK YOU, MR. ISH.

UM, I KNOW THIS PROJECT'S WITH M D T A, BUT THE BRIDGES THAT ARE REPLACED OVER 95 SEEMS TO BE A HUGE TREND AT THE MOMENT.

ALL THE WAY UP AND DOWN 95.

NOT THIS COUNTY.

CECIL, BALTIMORE COUNTY, HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO MY QUESTION BECOMES THAT I'M LOOKING AT THE ONE OVER 9 24 THAT I DID JUST HAVE TO LOOK BACK.

IT STARTED IN APRIL OF 2021, AND THEY'RE HOPING IT'S COMPLETED IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS.

I KNOW THIS DOESN'T FALL ON YOU.

WHAT GOES INTO THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF CLOSING DOWN THE ROAD? BECAUSE I THINK BRADSHAW ROAD WAS DONE IN LIKE SIX MONTHS MAYBE, AND THEN KEEPING THIS ONE OPEN FOR TWO YEARS OF TRAFFIC, HEADACHE FOR A AND THEN THERE'S NEW CONSTRUCTION DOWN THERE AND EVERYTHING.

WHAT GOES INTO THAT DECISION, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS RELATING TO OVERTOP OF LIKE 95? I I, THE BRIDGES ON OVER 95 ARE, ARE MANAGED BY MARYLAND, UH, TRAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY.

SO THEY WOULD DO SOME TYPE OF MAINTENANCE OF TRAFFIC STUDY TO DETERMINE, UH, THE IMPACTS TO TRAFFIC AND WHETHER THEY NEED TO CLOSE THE ROAD OR OPEN IT UP TO TRAFFIC.

SO ON IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, I DON'T KNOW THE PARTICULARS, BUT I ASSUME THAT THEY FELT THAT THEY NEED TO KEEP TRAFFIC, UH, OPEN DURING CONSTRUCTION, WHICH DOES MAKE THE PROJECT LONGER.

IS IT LIKE TWO TIMES AS LONG USUALLY? OR IT JUST, IT, IT DEPENDS.

ONM DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT.

THANK YOU MR. RIPERT.

YES, THANK YOU.

COUNCIL PRESENT.

UM, JUST A QUICK CLARIFICATION ON FEDERAL FUNDING FOR THE BRIDGE, UH, MAINTENANCE WORK.

UH, THE, UH, 1.75 BILLION, I GUESS FOR, UM, THE, UH, BRIDGE INSPECTION IS FULLY FUNDED A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER PROJECTS.

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE FUNDED ABOUT 80% BY FEDERAL.

HOW DOES THAT, WHAT'S THE, HOW DO THEY TURN DETERMINE THAT'S CORRECT.

THE FEDERAL BRIDGE INSPECTION IS A HUNDRED PERCENT THEY FED, THEY FUND THAT A HUNDRED PERCENT FOR ALL MUNICIPALITIES, COUNTIES, UH, THE BRIDGE PROJECTS, REPLACEMENT REHABILITATION TYPE PROJECTS, THEY ONLY FUND THOSE AT AN 80% LEVEL.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

IF THE BRIDGE IS UP A CERTAIN LENGTH, SO LIKE IF THE, IF IT'S A REAL SMALL BRIDGE, THEN, THEN YEAH, YOU'LL GET IT CORRECT.

IT'S GOTTA BE OVER 20 FEET IN LENGTH.

UH, MR. BEN, UM, A BIT OF AN ANALOGY TO ASK MY QUESTION.

I USED TO WORK IN A KITCHEN OF A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT, AND AS ORDERS WOULD COME IN, A LITTLE TIMER POPS UP FOR THE ORDER, AND WHEN IT FIRST COMES IN, IT'S GREEN, AND THEN AS THE TIME GOES ON, IT TURNS YELLOW.

AND THEN WHEN YOU'VE REALLY GONE A LONG TIME, IT TURNS RED AND THAT SH AND AS RED ORDERS PILE UP, IT'S A SIGN YOU'RE REALLY LIKE, BEHIND SCHEDULE AND THINGS ARE GOING BAD CUZ YOU HAVE ALL THESE RED ORDERS.

SO LIKE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR BRIDGES AND OUR ROADS AND THEY'RE SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE AND OUR REPAIRS OVER TIME.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE LONG TERM, ARE WE IN A PLACE WHERE YOU LOOK AHEAD AND IT'S MOSTLY LIKE, YEAH, WE KNOW THERE'S THINGS AHEAD, BUT THOSE ARE GREEN ORDERS OR THERE'S A FEW YELLOWS, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING? OR ARE THOSE, ARE THERE THINGS OUT THERE THAT ARE GLARING LIKE THESE, THESE NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF RIGHT NOW? THIS IS RED.

UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEHIND SCHEDULE.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF YESTERDAY, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET IT DONE TODAY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, OUR REPAIR SCHEDULE, I'LL TRY TO ADDRESS THE QUESTION I, I THINK WE'RE DOING OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS.

AT ONE POINT IN TIME, ABOUT 25% OF OUR BRIDGE INVENTORY WAS RATED POOR.

AS OF TODAY, WE'RE DOWN TO ABOUT 9.3% OF THE BRIDGE INVENTORY RATED AS POOR.

SO WE HAVE MADE MARKET THE IMPROVED PROGRESS ON OUR BRIDGE, UH, CONDITIONS OVER THE YEARS.

WE STILL HAVE A NUMBER OF VERY OLD BRIDGES THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE.

BUT, UM, AND, AND, AND IF I MIGHT ADD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, THE ENTIRE SIX YEAR CAPITAL PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY FOR BRIDGES, YOU WILL SEE THAT THERE'S SORT OF A STAGGERED GROUP OF REQUESTS.

SO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY IN THOSE CASES TO PLAN FOR WHEN THOSE TIMES WILL COME.

, BECAUSE A GREAT DEAL OF ANALYSIS GOES INTO THE PROCESS OF, BASED ON THOSE BRIDGE INSPECTIONS, THERE'S A CATEGORIZATION OF THE CONDITION OF THAT BRIDGE, WHICH THEN SETS A PRIORITY FOR FOUR RED, YELLOW, GREEN IN YOUR, IN YOUR ANALOGY.

UH,

[01:10:01]

WHAT HAPPENS, UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE ALL THE GREAT PLANS IN THE WORLD DON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN 2018 WHEN 23 BRIDGES WERE MAN, WERE, UH, WERE DAMAGED, UH, AND THEY ALL WERE RED.

UH, SO THAT CHANGED OUR PRIORITY SOMEWHAT.

BUT THE PROCESS YOU DESCRIBED IS WHAT WE DO, NOT ONLY WITH THE, THE ROAD RESURFACING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY ON THE CONDITIONS OF THE ROADS THAT ARE ADDRESSED FIRST.

WE DO THE SAME WITH THE BRIDGES IMMEDIATE AND ALSO PROJECTING FORWARD IN THE, IN THE REMAINING SIX YEAR PROGRAM.

WELL, UH, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS LIKE THE AVERAGE FOR A COUNTY WHEN IT COMES TO BRIDGE RATINGS? UM, YOU SAID WE'RE AT 9.3%.

I'M NOT SURE THE EXACT NUMBER.

SOMEWHERE AROUND 15%.

UM, MR. TIPS, THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.

I'D SEE WHERE LINVILLE ROAD HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK A YEAR.

IS THAT CORRECT? THE BRIDGE? THE, THE BRIDGE IS CURRENTLY IN OUR CAPITAL PROGRAM.

UH, WE MAY HAVE PUSHED IT BACK A YEAR.

OR CONSTRUCTION.

I, I ONLY REASON I'M ASKING THAT IS A ONE-WAY BRIDGE AND IT, UH, IT HAS A HILL ON BOTH SIDES OF IT, AND IT'S KIND OF AT THE BOTTOM AND IT'S NOT, UH, IT, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

AND I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER BRIDGES OR THE SAME WAY, BUT, UH, UH, IT, IT, IT'S IN MY HOMETOWN, SO I WORRY ABOUT IT A LOT.

SO , I UNDERSTAND.

UNDERSTOOD.

IT'S ON OUR PROGRAM AND WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS THAT END.

THANK YOU, MR. TIBBS.

ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU.

WHERE ARE WE'RE GOING NEXT.

SO I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DO, UM, A COUPLE OF BUDGETS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT RELATED TOGETHER.

UM, AND ROBBIE, COULD I, COULD I, YEAH, YOU'LL STAY HERE.

CAUSE I THINK WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS FACILITIES, CAPITAL PROJECTS, INSPECTIONS, THE LIGHT.

COULD I DESCRIBE THE DIVISION? YEAH.

UM, THE WHOLE DIVISION.

OH, YEAH.

SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CONFUSE BECAUSE THIS ONE HAS STORM WATER AND IT HAS THE OTHER STUFF.

SO YEAH, I'LL JUST LET YOU GIVE THE COMPLETE OVERVIEW AND THEN WE'LL DO, WE'RE GONNA BREAK IT UP AND THEN THE THREE AREAS.

SO, SO WATER, WATER AND SEWERS.

PRETTY CLEAR.

HIGHWAYS IS PRETTY CLEAR.

THE REST OF D P W IS IN A DIVISION CALLED THE EN ENVIRONMENT SUSTAINABILITY DIVISION.

UH, SIX DISTINCT INTERDEPENDENT OPERATING GROUPS, AND I'LL RUN THROUGH 'EM IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER.

UM, BUREAU OF CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGES THE PLANNING AND DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF COUNTY CAPITAL FACILITY AND BUILDING PROJECTS, UH, FACILITIES AND OPS.

NEW TO D P W IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 1.7 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF, OF SPACE IN 170 COUNTY BUILDINGS.

ALSO MANAGING COUNTY WAREHOUSE SURPLUS AND INVENTORY OF 17,000 COUNTY ASSETS, ANSWERING THE SWITCHBOARD AND IN MANAGEMENT OF LEASES.

UH, BUREAU STORE OWNER MANAGEMENT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COUNTY'S DAMN SAFETY PROGRAM.

THE, THE STATE'S DELEGATED REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLANS FOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS WITHIN THE COUNTY AND FOR THE ONGOING INSPECTION OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES, UH, BUREAU OF ORDERS SHED PROTECTION AND RESTORATION, RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSIGHT AND MANAGEMENT OF THE MS FOUR PERMIT.

UH, JUST APPROVED THE, UH, FINANCIAL ASSURANCE PLAN.

WE APPRECIATE THAT.

BUREAU OF CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION PROVIDES FOR CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT INSPECTION OF COUNTY ROAD BRIDGE, STORM DRAIN, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES, STREAM RESTORATION PROJECTS, WATERLINE SEWER LINES AND PUMP STATIONS.

AND ALSO PROVIDES FOR THE CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION OF FACILITIES CONSTRUCTED BY PRIVATE DEVELOPERS, WHICH ARE GONNA BE TURNED OVER TO THE COUNTY FOR MAINTENANCE.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, THE SOLID WASTE DIVISION, WHICH IS JEFF SCHOENBERGER RESPONSIBLE FOR ADMINISTERING THE COUNTY'S SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING PROGRAMS, INCLUDING MANAGING THE COUNTY'S CONTRACT WITH, WITH MES, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LANDFILL OPERATIONS AND POST CLOSURE LANDFILL, UH, ACTIVITIES AND RECYCLING EDUCATION EFFORTS, AND THE DISPOSAL CONTRACT WITH BALTIMORE COUNTY.

A PROPOSED BUDGET OF 1.8 MILLION A, UH, CHANGE OF, UH, 464,000 FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

SO I THINK WHAT MAKES SENSE THEN TO DO IS TO DISCUSS, UM, CAPITAL PROJECTS, FACILITIES LEASE, AND, UM, CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION KIND OF AS, AS ONE GROUP.

AND THEN WE'LL DO STORMWATER AND THEN WE'LL DO, UM, SOLID WASTE.

SO CAPITAL PROJECTS IS ON PAGE 3 96 OF YOUR OPERATING BUDGET.

UM, HAS

[01:15:01]

UH, THAT IS LARGELY, UM, DUE TO, UH, FOUR VACANT POSITIONS THAT WERE TRANSFERRED FROM PARKS AND RECS TO FACILITY OPS, UM, IN THAT, IN THAT BUDGET.

SO WHAT PAGE, I'M SORRY.

DID IT, UM, YOU NEED GIVE US A SECOND TO GET THERE.

OH YEAH.

MY APOLOGY 3 96.

3 96 IS CAPITAL PROJECTS.

UM, AND IT STATED THE, UM, CAN SEE THE, THE RATIONALE FOR THE INCREASE THEN ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE ON 3 97, WHICH IS LARGELY ABOUT, UH, THERE'S FOUR POSITIONS THAT WERE TRANSFERRED, UH, FROM PARKS AND REC TO, UM, UH, AND FACILITIES AND OPS INTO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

THEN IF YOU GO TO PAGE 3 99, YOU'LL HAVE FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS.

UM, THAT IS, UH, 7 MILLION.

NOW THAT BUDGET WAS PRE PREVIOUSLY IN ADMINISTRATION, UM, IN THE ADMINISTRATION AREA.

SO IT'S LARGELY JUST MOVING THAT OPERATION FROM, UM, ONE DIVISION OR ONE DEPARTMENT, IF YOU WILL, TO ANOTHER.

UM, AND THEN ON PAGE 4 0 3, THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER NEW BUDGET, UH, WHICH IS LEASE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT OF, UH, ONE POINT, 1.4, 1.5, UM, MILLION DOLLARS THERE.

UM, LARGELY JUST ABOUT MOVING FUNDING FROM, FROM PLACES THAT WAS IN OTHER AREAS OF THE BUDGET.

AND THEN KIND OF FLIP THROUGH A COUPLE OF OTHER PAGES TO GET TO CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION ON FOUR 17, UM, HAS A BUDGET OF 2.7 MILLION.

THAT'S A DECREASE OF ABOUT $223,000.

AND THAT'S LARGELY DUE TO MOVING A VACANT, UM, UH, INSPECTOR POSITION, UH, FROM THIS AREA TO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TOO FAST.

ALL RIGHT, I'LL, I'M NO KIM IN THIS REGARD.

SO, , REMEMBER, I'M A, I'M AN UNDER, I'M AN UNDERSTUDY WORKING, WORKING TWO JOBS TODAY.

FEELS LIKE THREE.

UM, YEAH.

SO ONCE AGAIN, SO WE HAVE CAPITAL PROJECTS, UM, ON PAGE 3 96, YOU'LL, YOU WILL HAVE FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS ON PAGE 3 99.

YOU WILL HAVE LEASE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT ON PAGE 4 0 3.

AND THEN FINALLY IN THIS SEGMENT HERE, YOU WILL HAVE, UM, CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION ON PAGE FOUR 17.

SO HOWEVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO, GO THROUGH THAT, LET'S DO 'EM ONE AT A TON.

MAYBE THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO IT.

IT'S INTERIOR RENOVATIONS AND ELECTRICAL UPGRADES.

ALRIGHT, WELL LET'S JUST DO CAPITAL PROJECTS FIRST THEN.

3 96.

GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.

CREEK CHIEF OF CAPITAL PROJECTS.

SO THEY'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED WHAT MY GROUP DOES AND WE ARE REQUESTING FUNDING FOR TWO PROJECTS.

A FEW MAJOR THINGS SMALLER.

ONE IS THE COURTHOUSE BUILDING REPAIRS.

WE'RE REQUESTING AN ADDITIONAL $300,000 FOR THAT.

THAT CONSISTS OF UPGRADES TO THE CEREMONIAL COURTROOM WITHIN THE CIRCUIT COURTHOUSE.

IT ALSO WILL BE SOME EXTERIOR FACADE RESTORATION.

AND THEN THE ADDITIONAL MONIES THAT HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN ENCUMBERED.

WE PRESENTED THROUGH BOARD OF ESTIMATES THIS PAST TUESDAY, WHICH WAS THE FIRE ALARM REPLACEMENT SYSTEM AND THE MASS NOTIFICATION SYSTEM THROUGH THE ALERTS PLATFORM, WHICH CONNECTS WITH THE DS BUILDING TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SECURITY.

AND, UM, I GUESS, UH, THE COMMUNICATIONS, COMMUNICATIONS WITHIN THE COURTHOUSE BETWEEN THE JUDGES AND THE SECURITY.

WE ARE ALSO REQUESTING, THERE'S A NEW ACCOUNT.

IT DOES NOT HAVE A PHONE, NU OR DOES NOT HAVE A NUMBER ASSIGNED TO IT YET, A PROJECT NUMBER.

AND THAT IS ON PAGE 69.

AND THAT IS THE MAJOR RENOVATIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION COUNTY FACILITIES THAT CONSISTS OF MULTIPLE DIFFERENT THINGS SUCH AS IDENTIFYING POTENTIAL PROJECTS, WHICH ARE CURRENTLY IN THE INITIAL PROGRAMMING AND SPACE PLANNING PHASES, ALONG WITH DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION SERVICES FOR MULTIPLE COUNTY FACILITIES.

IT'S AN ONGOING CONVERSATION WITH, IT'S NOT ASSIGNED TO JUST ONE PROJECT.

IT'S MULTIPLE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN THROUGHOUT THE FISCAL YEAR.

AND I THINK THAT'S ALL THAT'S ON MINE FOR THIS CURRENT REQUEST.

SO, BARKLEY, LIKE BEFORE,

[01:20:01]

I WANT TO, UH, EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION FOR YOUR PRESENTATIONS AT BOARD OF ESTIMATES.

I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH WARREN HAMILTON THIS LAST TIME.

HE DID, HE DID.

HE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS, UH, BUT YOU HAD THE ANSWERS FOR HIM.

SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE MAIN THING.

AND, UM, YOU DO A GREAT JOB WITH YOUR PRESENTATIONS.

UH, YOU BRING ALL THE INFORMATION TO THE TABLE AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF MS. CREIGHTON? MR. BENNETT? UM, THIS IS JUST MORE SO A QUESTION WITH THE, THE BUDGET WHEN, UH, POSITIONS MOVED FROM DEPARTMENTS BUT EXISTED LAST YEAR.

UM, THE LAST YEAR'S SALARY ISN'T LISTED ANYMORE, UM, IN THE BUDGET FOR COMPARISONS SAKE.

SO LIKE THE, THE FOUR POSITIONS THAT WERE MOVED FROM PARKS AND REC INTO THE, INTO THIS DEPARTMENT, THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR 2023 SALARIES LISTED FOR COMPARISON.

SO LIKE, IT'S HARD TO TO GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE IF THERE WAS AN ADJUSTMENT, IF THEY, YOU KNOW, LOST SALARY, IF THEIR SALARIES WERE INCREASED.

UM, YEAH, I THINK IN, IN, IN THAT, IN THAT REGARD, UM, MOST OF THE SALARIES SHOULD BE THE SAME, BUT I THINK IT MAYBE WOULD MAKE SENSE TO JUST, UM, HAVE ANY OF THE POSITIONS THAT, THAT WERE CHANGED.

AND WE CAN THEN JUST DO A CHART OF THE LIST.

SO, SO JACOB ACTUALLY SIGNED THE TWO POSITION THAT WERE TRANSFERRED FROM PARK REC, THE PARK AND REC SECTION OF THE BUDGET.

I JUST THINK WITH SO MANY POSITIONS MOVED FROM THIS DEPARTMENT TO THAT DEPARTMENT THIS YEAR, SO MUCH MOVING AROUND, IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL TO INCLUDE THOSE PREVIOUS SALARIES CUZ IT, IT, YOU KNOW, TO SAY LIKE THE POSITION DIDN'T HAVE A DOLLAR AMOUNT THE PREVIOUS YEAR ISN'T TOTALLY ACCURATE FOR THE SAKE OF, OF LOOKING AT THE BUDGET.

THAT WAS JUST SOMETHING I NOTICED WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH THE BUDGET, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS MORNING TO GET READY FOR THIS.

AND THEN I WENT BACK AND READ THE JUSTIFICATION AND IT WAS LIKE, OH, THEY CAME FROM PARKS AND REC AND I WAS LIKE, OH, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MADE AT PARKS AND REC LAST YEAR, SO I WAS JUST SOMETHING I WANTED TO CLARIFY FOR, YOU KNOW, FUTURE SESSIONS TO HOPEFULLY GET THAT INFORMATION.

YEAH, THIS IS DEFINITELY THE AREA THAT HAS PROBABLY SEEN THE MOST, UM, ALL OF THIS STUFF WITHIN FACILITIES AND, AND CAPITAL PROJECTS.

UM, SO I THINK ONCE WE KIND OF GET PAST THIS, THIS WON'T BE AS, THIS IS, THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF THE MOUNTAIN , SO THANK YOU MR. BENNETT.

MR. PENMAN.

AND I THINK I'LL JUST SECOND, UH, WHAT MR. BENNETT HAD SAID.

IF, IF YOU GO TO 3 99 AND YOU HAVE THE SUMMARY OF, UH, AUDITED, UH, 21, 22, 23, IT'S, IT'S ZEROED OUT OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE THERE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF TRANSFERS, BUT IN AND ABOVE JUST THE SALARIES JUST TO, YOU KNOW, CONTRACTUAL SERVICES, SUPPLIES AND MATERIALS, BUSINESS AND TRAVEL.

THERE'S NOTHING TO COMPARE IT, UH, ON THE PREVIOUS YEAR.

SO WE DON'T KNOW IF, IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, IN ADDITIONAL EXPENSES THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO THIS DIVISION OR IT'S LESS EXPENSES TO ACTUALLY COMPARE IT.

WHICH WHICH, I'M SORRY, WHICH WHICH CASE IS THE ADMINISTRATION FOR FACILITIES.

I MEAN, AND WE GET THE FACILITIES, WE GET, UM, EXCUSE WHICH WHAT'S FACILITIES FROM LAST YEAR FOR, FOR FOUR FACILITIES, WHICH WILL THEN BE A, A SEPARATE DIS DISCUSSION AS OPPOSED TO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

BUT IS CAPITAL PROJECTS, THEY TRULY WAS KIND OF TAKEN FROM PARKS AND REC AND INSPECTION, UM, IN INSPECTIONS, WHEREAS FACILITIES IS PRETTY MUCH JUST A FLIP.

IT WAS.

SO IF JUST LOOKING AT THAT NUMBER AND I'M SORRY TO GO AHEAD, IT'S JUST HARD TO, UM, GET A GOOD, UH, HANDLE ON IT.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S ROUGHLY A HALF A MILLION DOLLAR INCREASE ON THAT BUDGET FOR FACILITIES.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT SIX, 6,000,499 VERSUS 6,000,933 A LAST YEAR, CENTRAL SERVICES WAS A SEPARATE ACCOUNT NUMBER AND A SEPARATE DIVISION.

CENTRAL SERVICES HAS ALSO BEEN IGNORED IN THE FACILITIES ENOUGH.

SO THAT INCREASE THAT YOU SEE IN CENTRAL SERVICES BUDGET WITHIN FACILITIES WHO ARE UM, OPERATING BUDGET FOR JUST FACILITIES ACTUALLY WENT DOWN CAUSE WE LOST A PERSON.

IT'S JUST FOR US IT'S JUST HARD TO, TO MANAGE, UH, COMPARISON.

THAT'S ALL.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS SENT OUT BUT, UM, CAME IN, DISCUSSED IT WITH ME AND THAT'S JUST THAT THE, UM, THE MAJOR RENOVATION CONSTRUCTION COUNTY FACILITIES IS 4 MILLION IS THE CORRECT NUMBER ON PAGE.

HUH? SERVICES 54.

AND I GUESS MAYBE JUST, UH, CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.

UH, I, I KNOW IT'S TOUGH IS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF REFERENCE ON PAGE NUMBERS IN, IN THIS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, ON 3 99 ON WHERE I COULD FIND THE INFORMATION BEFORE.

I KNOW THAT'S PROBABLY TOUGH TO FACILITATE, BUT YEAH.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO SEND US SOME SORT OF A SUPPLEMENT THAT WILL COVER ALL THAT, KRISTEN? YES.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

UM, GOOD, THANK YOU.

UH, ANYONE ELSE? THERE WAS ALSO A CORRECTION,

[01:25:01]

BARKLEY, CAN I GET YOU TO TALK INTO THE MICROPHONE PLEASE? PAGE 69 SHOWED 3.5 MILLION AND THE 4 MILLION ON PAGE 56 IS THE CORRECT NUMBER.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THAT WENT OUT YESTERDAY.

SO THAT'S ON.

SO, UM, WHEREAS CAPITAL PROJECTS RUNS A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL CAPITAL PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, UM, THAT, THAT HAVE INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS.

THERE IS THIS CATCHALL PROJECT, WHICH, UH, UH, FOR THESE, FOR, UH, MAJOR RENOVATIONS THAT DON'T WARRANT A, UM, SPECIFIC OR SET ASIDE, UH, CAPITAL PROJECT.

UM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS REFERRING TO ON PAGE 69 OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

YOU WANNA MOVE ON TO THE NEXT, PLEASE.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

OKAY, SO NOW WE WILL MOVE ON TO FACILITIES, WHICH IS ON PAGE 3 99 OF THE OPERATING BUDGET.

OR ARE WE GOOD THERE? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THAT.

SO, SO IF, IF WE'RE, ARE WE, ARE WE MOVING ON TO FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS? UM, 3 99 WHERE WHEREVER YOU WANT TO GO NEXT.

I THOUGHT I, I PROBABLY WENT AHEAD CUZ I ALREADY DISCUSSED.

YEAH, THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY WAS SO, SO THEN WE'LL, WE'LL DO, UH, ORIGINALLY I WAS GONNA COMBINE 'EM, BUT, AND THEN WE SAID TO BREAK THEM OUT, UM, SEPARATE SEPARATELY.

SO 3 99 IS FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS AND I, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE THEN FAIR TO THEN ALSO INCLUDE THAT LEASE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT IN THAT, IN THAT SECTION AS, AS WELL, WHICH IS ON PAGE, UH, 4 0 3.

WHENEVER YOU'RE READY AARON.

UM, WELL STEVE ALREADY KIND OF GAVE AN OVERVIEW OF THE DIVISION, UH, FACILITIES AND OPERATIONS.

AND I'M AARON SHAFFER.

I HAD THE PLEASURE TO MEET, UM, AND WORK WITH SOME OF YOU ALREADY.

SO, UM, I, I'M GONNA THANK YOU, UH, JUST IN GENERAL FOR ALL THE RENOVATIONS THAT YOU'VE MADE TO THIS SECOND FLOOR, UH, FOR US, UH, AND YOUR DEPARTMENT, I SHOULD SAY, AND YOUR TEAM OVER THE LAST EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.

SO I WANNA THANK YOU FOR THAT.

YOU'RE VERY EFFICIENT TO GUYS, THE GUYS THAT ARE JUST DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB.

UM, AND QUICK, LIKE I SAID, QUICK TURNAROUND.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT COUNSEL.

MR. BEN, I'LL SECOND THAT.

AARON, UM, YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB AT THE, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SPEAKS VERY HIGHLY OF YOU AS FAR AS JUST YOUR INTERACTION THERE WITH THE DIFFERENT PROJECTS THAT YOU'VE OVERSEEN.

SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK.

ANYONE ELSE? ANYONE ELSE? LAST CALL THAT WAS QUICK.

WE KIND OF WENT AHEAD AND COVERED IT EARLIER, SO YEAH, AND, AND, AND THOSE, THERE, THERE IS A LOT OF SYNERGY IN ALL OBVIOUSLY THOSE AREAS.

THAT'S WHY I TRIED TO BUNCH 'EM, BUNCH 'EM TOGETHER.

UM, AND THEN I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING THEN ON CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION, UH, WHICH WAS ON PAGE FOUR EIGHT, UM, FOUR 18.

AND AGAIN THE, THE CHANGE THERE WAS THAT THERE WAS A POSITION TO MOVE FROM INSPECTION TO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THAT, UM, UH, THAT BIG DIFFERENCE THERE.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A, IF THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ON THAT, WE CAN, UH, PROBABLY THEN JUST MOVE ON TO STORM WATER, I WOULD ASSUME.

UN UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US ON THE CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION SIDE.

UH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING COUNSEL.

SUSAN, ANYTHING WHERE, I'M SORRY.

UM, WHERE IS THAT LISTED? THE CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION SIDE? UM, 4 4 17 4 18.

UH, THAT GOES DOWN TO HUNDRED $23,000 LARGE, LARGELY DUE TO MOVING, UH, UM, MOVING A POSITION, POSITION FROM, UM, FROM HERE TO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

I'M GOOD.

WELL THANK YOU ROOM, COREY.

I'M SORRY MS. MOON.

WELL, UM, OPER OPERATING, OPERATING IS PAGE 4 0 6.

SO, SO IS THAT AN OVERLAP? UM, I SEE IT'S GOT, UM, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IN THIS ALSO.

IS THAT AN OVERLAP WITH THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT? ARE THEY COMBINED? WELL, THIS WHOLE DEPARTMENT, THIS, THIS DIVISION HAS, THAT'S WHAT WE SAID.

IT IS KIND OF, IT'S GOT ST WASTE, IT'S GOT STORMWATER, IT'S GOT FACILITIES, IT'S GOT PROJECT, YEAH.

CAPITAL PROJECTS.

A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING.

SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE .

SO IF WE'RE GOOD THEN I, I THINK THEN WE CAN GO TO STORM WATER.

UM, THEN THAT IS, CAUSE THAT'S IN THE FRONT OF THE BOOK, CORRECT? PAGE, PAGE FOUR.

[01:30:02]

OPERATING FOR, AGAIN, BECAUSE THAT'S A SEPARATE FUND.

THAT'S WHY I'M OKAY.

STORMWATER.

SO STORM WATER MANAGEMENT IN THE OP IN THE OPERATING BUDGET, WHICH AGAIN IS A SEPARATE FROM THE GENERAL FUND.

IT IS ITS OWN SPECIAL, UM, FUND.

AND I KNOW THIS IS GONNA GET CONFUSION BECAUSE THERE IS THE FUND BALANCE IN THE GENERAL FUND, UM, COMPONENT TO IT.

BUT THIS IS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, WHICH IS ON PAGE 4 0 6.

UM, IT HAS A BUDGET, UH, AN OPERATING BUDGET AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS CAPITAL, UM, AFTER THIS OF, UH, 1.6 MILLION THAT REPRESENTS, UH, DECREASE OF $137,000.

AND THAT'S LARGELY JUST DUE TO UH, THAT 27TH PAY TURNOVER.

THINGS ALONG THOSE, THOSE LINES.

COUNSEL, WILL ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DO.

MR. CUTMAN, UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS, UM, THE WATERSHED MANAGEMENT FUND, AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS 30 MILLION, I THINK THAT YOU, MR. PRESIDENT? YES.

YOU MENTIONED THAT BEFORE.

UM, CAN YOU DISCUSS KIND OF WHAT THAT'S USED FOR? UM, AND YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, A PORTION OF THE TRANSFER TAX ALSO GOES TO THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.

IS THAT, IS THAT A PORTION OF RECORD? RECORD? SO I THINK WHAT'S PROBABLY THERE IS AN ALL FUNDS SUMMARY CUZ IT'S A SEPARATE FUND HERE.

WE WOULD, WHERE WOULD I FIND, WHAT IS IT? AM I SKIPPING A HEAD WRONG? AM I, AM AM I, AM I MESSING ALL OF THIS UP? A WATER CHECK? THAT'S RIGHT.

, THAT'S, THAT'S ON ME.

THAT'S, THAT'S, YES.

SO WE WENT, WE CHANGED THE NAMES TO MAKE THEM VERY SIMILAR.

WE USED TO CALL THE OTHER ONE.

SO THAT PART'S COMING UP LATER.

STORM WATER.

WELL JUST, WE'LL COME BACK TO WATERSHED, WHICH IS SIMILAR BUT NOT QUITE THE SAME.

JUST SIT TIGHT I THINK IS WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

IT'S MY FIRST RODEO.

I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

SO THIS, THIS THROUGH YOUR WEATHER.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO, LET'S GO BACK, LET'S GO BACK TO, SO JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU CAN SAY STORMWATER MANAGEMENT'S IT ALL WE DID, JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY THIS GROUP IS IS BOB ANDERSON'S GROUP.

THIS GROUP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT REVIEW OF PLANS WHEN THEY COME IN FOR INSPECTION OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN CONSTRUCTED AND FOR DAM SAFETY SEPARATE FROM CHRISTINE BUCKLEY AND THE WATERSHED MANAGEMENT GROUP.

SO THIS GROUP IS A, A SEPARATE THERE YOU GO.

SEPARATE.

AND THIS IS FUNDED WITH GENERAL FUND? THAT'S CORRECT.

THIS IS PART OF THE GENERAL FUND.

WHAT, WHO PREPARES THE STREAMS? THAT'S CHRISTINE.

ALRIGHT, I THINK SHE'S NEXT UP.

SO WHAT PAGE ARE WE ON NOW? WE ARE, WE ARE ON PAGE 4 0 6.

4 0 7.

GOTTA LOVE IT.

I HAVE TO TAKE THIS CALL.

EXCUSE ME JUST A MINUTE.

YES SIR.

MR. YOUR VICE PRESIDENT IN CHARGE.

LET'S, UH, LET'S HOLD UP UNTIL PERSON GETS BACK A LITTLE BREAK.

ALRIGHT.

I SAY WE GIVE UH, TONY A CHANCE.

YOU'RE TURNED IN A BOX ALL WHERE'S OUR LEADERSHIP IS YOUR BREAK TIME YET? CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH.

YEAH, YOU HIT THOSE NUMBERS.

YOU'RE ALREADY THERE.

WE'RE TRYING TO, YEAH.

AND, AND I, I, AGAIN, THIS, THESE ARE SOME UNIQUE BUDGETS IN THAT THEY'RE ALL SOMEWHAT RELATED.

UM, BUT THEN IT CROSSES MULTIPLE FUNDS MUCH SMOOTHER.

WHEN KEN WAS HERE, YES.

EVERYTHING WAS BETTER WHEN KIM WAS HERE.

WE WILL ALL AGREE WITH THAT.

, YOU'RE TERRIBLE.

HOPEFULLY.

YEAH, I CAME FROM THE BUDGET SIDE YEARS AGO, BUT NOW I'VE, I'VE LOST ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE ON THE CARROLL COUNTY BUDGET FROM THE, UH, EARLY 2000

[01:35:16]

YEAH, THIS IS IN THERE.

WE DO GET TO THE WATERSHED THAT WHAT PAGE IS THAT? SO I CAN I GET, I CAN GET THE TRANSFERS BETWEEN, CAN'T REMEMBER.

YOU'RE THE, OKAY.

I DUNNO IF YOU READ THE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE, IF IT WOULD'VE BEEN IN YOUR EMAIL.

I DON'T.

AN EMAIL.

YOU READ YESTERDAY? YESTERDAY THAT, YES, YESTERDAY.

THE OTHER, DID I MISS ANYTHING? GET THE ONE THE COUPLE DAYS BEFORE WE WERE RIGHT.

CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASKED FOR.

THERE WAS ONE THAT WAS, THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING.

I HAD TO TAKE THAT.

SO WE HAD SOME, SOME CONFUSION.

WE ARE NOW ON PAGE.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

WE ARE OKAY.

NO, I'VE GOT TAKE YOUR PRIVATE CHANGE 4 0 6.

JUMPING AHEAD MYSELF TO GET PREPARED FOR THE NEXT ONE.

4 0 6 STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.

$1.6 MILLION.

A DECREASE OF $137,000.

THIS IS ALL GENERAL FUND.

UH, THE DECREASE IS THAT JUST FROM THE SALARIES? THE LESS, UH, ONE LESS PAY CYCLE.

SO A COMBINATION OF THAT.

THERE'S JUST SOME OTHER GENERAL TURNOVER.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE HAVE PEOPLE RETIRE, THEN THEY'RE REPLACED BY UM, OTHER, OTHER INDIVIDUALS.

SO IT'S JUST ON THE PERSONNEL, BUT NO, NO DECREASE IN UM, KIND OF LIKE BASELINE FUNDING IF YOU WILL.

UM, BOB, IF I MAY, SO STORMWATER REVIEWS, IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTAND? YES SIR.

SO WHEN A CLIENT, A CUSTOMER, A PROJECT IS, HAS TO COME BEFORE YOU FOR A STORMWATER REVIEW, WHAT'S THE TURNAROUND TIME ON THAT? SUPPOSED TO BE 30 DAYS.

SUPPOSED TO BE 30 DAYS TURNAROUND.

WHAT'S BEEN OUR AVERAGE LATELY? WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD NEW STAFFING.

WE'VE BEEN GETTING IT DOWN TO BETWEEN TWO WEEKS TO 30 DAYS.

AWESOME.

YEAH, WE'VE BEEN DOING MUCH BETTER.

FULL DISCLOSURE, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT GOES UP WELL ABOVE 30.

AND WE DO OUR BEST.

WE KNOW WE GET CALLS AND WE KNOW WELL WE, WE MAKE CHANGES BEFORE WE GET THE CALLS.

I RECOGNIZE CUZ I REVIEWED THE, THE TURNAROUND TIMES AND SO DOES STEVE.

AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING ADEQUATE RESOURCES IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE DIPS AND VALLEYS AS BEST WE CAN.

BUT WE'RE, WE'RE IN A GOOD PLACE NOW.

WE HAD REALLY HARD WORK BY A LOT OF GOOD FOLKS TO GET THOSE REVIEWED TIMES WHERE WE WANTED TO BE.

BUT FULL DISCLOSURE, AGAIN, WE'RE LOSING A PERSON TOMORROW ALSO IN THAT VERY SMALL GROUP.

SO WE'RE GONNA KEEP TRYING.

WE'LL DO OUR BEST, BUT KEEP THIS ARE WE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY NOW? YES.

ARE THEY GOING TO A DIFFERENT COUNTY? RIGHT, EXACTLY.

SO I KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD STEVE AND JOE, WE'VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS, SO I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE TIME HAS BEEN REDUCED.

UM, COUNT MR. GUTHRIE.

UM, SO YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF WHEN THERE'S A RUNOFF FROM THE CONSTRUCTION AND IT GOES INTO THE, THE BAY OR, OR THE WATERWAYS AND TURNS THEM ALL BROWN? NO, THAT IS, WHO DO I TALK TO? CONSTRUCTION.

I'VE GOT SO CONFUSED WITH NO, THAT'S FINE.

ALL THAT'S, I GUESS IT'S, IT IS NOT BOB.

UH, HE'S THE ONE THAT APPROVES THE PLANS TO REQUIRE THE BUILDER TO DO WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO.

SEPARATE GROUP CALLED CONSTRUCTION INSPECTIONS THAT I DON'T THINK WE'VE HEARD FROM YET.

UH, BUT THAT IS THE GROUP THAT HE GETS INVOLVED IN ACTUALLY SENDING PEOPLE IN THE FIELD TO OBSERVE AND TO MAKE SURE THINGS ARE BEING DONE CORRECTLY.

AND THEY, THEY CAN TELL ME ABOUT ORIGINALLY DEVELOPMENTAL 1 52, THAT THEY'VE SHUT DOWN FIVE TIMES BUT ONLY FIND ONCE.

I CAN GET SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THAT.

I'D BE HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT.

AT, AT EVERY WHATEVER POINT YOU WANT TO.

I CAN SHOW YOU THE DETAILS.

UM, NOW IS THIS APPROPRIATE OR TELL ME WHEN I THINK IT'D BE MORE APPROPRIATE, MR. GUTHRIE, I THINK IT'D BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO MEET WITH THEM AND THEY CAN PRESENT ALL NO, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE OUT HERE IN FRONT.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, MR. GUTHRIE, THE GUY SITTING AT THE TABLE'S, NOT THE GUY YOU NEED TO TALK BEFORE.

CAUSE WE HAVE BUT YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO HAVE A BUNCH OF OTHER DETAILS HERE TODAY THAT THEY DON'T HAVE.

WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY, THEY SHOULD HAVE.

WHY DON'T THEY HAVE IT? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK.

WHY CAN'T THEY TELL ME? WHY CAN'T THEY TELL ME WHY THIS DEVELOPMENT THERE THAT HAS BEEN SO SCREWED UP? UH, AND, AND, AND

[01:40:01]

SO, WELL THEN WHO, WHO IS IT? I'M, I'M HERE ASKING, WHEN YOU TURN IS UP, HE'LL BE HERE.

BUT NUMBER TWO, WHO IS IT? WHO IS IT? I TALKED TO? HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE.

ONE.

WILL HE BE HERE? LET ME FINISH.

I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU IDENTIFY THE INDIVIDUAL THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO TALK TO, TO ASK FOR A MEETING SO THAT HE CAN BRING THE PROPER DOCUMENTATION SO THAT YOU CAN SEE FIRSTHAND AND GET THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.

WELL, WHEN WILL THAT BE HERE? AND WHEN CAN THAT BE HERE? YOU'LL HAVE TO SET THE MEETING UP.

YOU CAN SET IT UP RIGHT NOW WITH WHOEVER IS FINE WITH ME.

UM, WELL WHEN CAN THEY COME HERE AND ARE THEY IN THE ROOM? IS THE PERSON? NO, IT, IT, SO SEDIMENT CONTROL ENFORCEMENT IS ONE DIVISION UNDERNEATH MATT MICHAEL.

SO TWO PARTS TO THAT, THE REGULAR CONSTRUCTION SIDE AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL ENFORCEMENT SIDE, MIKE DAVIES IS HEAD OF THAT GROUP.

SO THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL INSPECTORS ARE INVOLVED IN MAKING SURE THAT THE SEDIMENT CONTROL PLANS THAT WERE APPROVED THROUGH THE SOLE CONSERVATION DISTRICT ARE ENFORCED.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE WAS MULTIPLE ISSUES WITH, WITH THAT DEVELOPMENT.

THEY WERE PUT ON STOP WORK ORDER A FEW TIMES.

THEY FIXED THOSE ISSUES AND THEY WERE ALLOWED TO PROCEED.

SO, UM, AS FAR AS THE ISSUE IS FINE, BUT CAN YOU SET, CAN YOU SET UP A MEETING WITH MR TODAY? WE CERTAINLY COULDN'T GO THROUGH THE DETAILS.

THERE YOU GO.

PARDON? GENTLEMAN NAMED MIKE DAVIES, WHO IS THE CHIEF OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL INSPECTIONS REPORTS TO MATT MICHAEL, WHO IS THE CHIEF OF ALL CONSTRUCTION INSPECTIONS.

YOU'LL HEAR FROM HIM SHORTLY.

I'LL BE HAPPY TO SCHEDULE A MEETING AND I'LL ASK IF CHRIS IS STILL HERE TO HAVE TO SCHEDULE A MEETING WITH YOU AND YOUR STAFF WITH MIKE DAVIES DIRECTLY AND HIS SUPERVISOR, WHICH WOULD BE MATT MICHAEL, AND WE CAN SHOW YOU ALL THE DETAILS OF OUR INSPECTIONS AND ENFORCEMENT ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, WITH THAT PROJECT.

BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.

DOES THAT HAVE FACTORY? I'M NOT SURE, BUT I'LL FIND OUT WHEN I TALK TO HIM.

I GUESS UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU KNOW, PAT, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE PUT UP WITH THIS FOR ALMOST ALL SUMMER.

IT'S POLLUTING OUR WATERS AND WE HAVE THE RUMSEY ISLAND REDS ASSOCIATION.

WE DO OUR OWN TESTING OF THE WATER AND THEN IT PREVENTS US FROM, FROM ALL THE CHILDREN AND THE GRANDCHILDREN FROM SWIMMING IN THE WATERS BECAUSE IT GOT POLLUTED FROM THIS DEVELOPER.

AND THEY, AND THEY HAD FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES.

THE, THE INFORMATION I'VE GOT, THEY'VE BEEN SHUT DOWN, BUT THEY ONLY GOT FINED ONCE.

AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WHEN YOU SHUT, UH, AN OUTFIT DOWN THAT YOU DON'T FIND 'EM EVERY TIME BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THE CAGE FOR THEM, TAKE IT OFF THEIR TAXES, YOU KNOW, IF YOU FIND THEM THEN WHEN THEY GOTTA, THEY GOTTA PAY TO FIND BEFORE THEY CAN OPEN BACK UP.

SO IT'S BEEN A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS ON THE ROADWAYS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THAT AREA.

AND YOU KNOW, IT, I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU PROBABLY GOT PLENTY OF CALLS ALSO, I GOT PLENTY OF CALLS.

SO THAT'S A REAL PROBLEM AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THIS SUMMER.

SO, SO WE'RE, WE'RE SPENDING HALF OUR SUMMER WHERE NOBODY CAN GO SWIMMING AND, AND I UNDERSTAND AND WE'LL, WE'LL ESTABLISH THAT MEETING AND WE'LL WALK YOU THROUGH STEP BY STEP OF ALL THE PROCESSES THAT WE FOLLOWED IN ACCORDANCE WITH CODE, UH, AND THE ENFORCEMENT REGULATIONS THAT WE FOLLOW.

I APPRECIATE IT.

FOR THAT OR HOW DO YOU ALWAYS CERTAINLY, WE, WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE CITIZEN INPUT.

SET THAT UP.

THANK YOU MR. GUTHRIE.

THANK YOU GUYS.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. GINGER? DOWN.

OH, I'M SORRY, MR. TIPS.

I'M SORRY, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE THAT THIS IS THE PROPER PLACE TO BRING THIS UP, BUT STORM WATER, I, I THINK OF AS, AS A STORM WHERE, WHERE, I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN THAT, BUT SOME OF THESE CULVERTS THAT WE HAVE ACROSS THE ROADS ARE NOT BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF STORMWATER.

SO HOW DO WE, WHAT, DO WE HAVE PLANS FOR ANY OF THOSE OR HOW DOES THAT WORK? I KNOW WE HAVE TO CLOSE ROADS PERIODICALLY BECAUSE OF STORMWATER CROSSING.

THAT'S TRUE.

CERTAINLY THERE'S A LOT OF SMALL CULVERTS, CROSSROAD CULVERTS THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTY THAT WERE PUT IN LONG TIME AGO BEFORE ANY, ANY SIZING OR ANY ENGINEERING WAS INVOLVED.

SO, UH, YOU KNOW, AS ISSUES COME UP AND, AND FREQUENCY OF ISSUES COME UP, WE LOOK AT THEM AND IF WHEN THE CONDITION OF THE PIPE, UH, WARRANTS REPLACEMENT, WE'LL LOOK INTO UPSIZING, WELL THOSE CROSSING AS WE CAN.

I KNOW OF ONE THAT YOU JUST REPLACED LESS THAN THREE YEARS AGO WITH THE SAME SIZE THAT IT WAS THERE AND UNFORTUNATELY IT'S NOT BIG ENOUGH.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW, WHAT TYPE OF ENGINEERING HAS TO GO INTO THOSE TYPES OF THINGS OR THE PIPE MAY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BECAUSE IT WAS MAINTENANCE, IT WAS FALLING APART.

SO THEY, THEY, THE MAINTENANCE GUYS PUT THAT BACK IN.

UM, AGAIN, IF, IF, IF WE KNOW THERE'S AN ISSUE OF FREQUENT CONSTANT FLOODING, THE ENGINEER, THE ENGINEERING FOLKS NEED TO GET INVOLVED AND WE CAN DIS DISCUSS AND CONSIDER WHETHER AN UPGRADE TO THAT PIPE FROM A SIZE STANDPOINT IS APPROPRIATE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS, BUT CERTAINLY WE NEED TO BE MADE AWARE OF THOSE ISSUES.

BUT THERE'S PLENTY OF, PLENTY OF LOCATIONS OUT THERE THAT FLOOD INFREQUENTLY AND, UH, WELL THERE'S PLENTY THAT FLOOD FREQUENTLY ALSO AGREE WITH YOU AND THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO MAYBE DO YOU NEED CITIZEN INPUT

[01:45:01]

WE, THE FOLKS THAT LIVE THERE ARE GOING TO KNOW ABOUT HOW OFTEN THAT HAPPENS.

GLEN GLEN BILL, AND THEN WE DO GLENVILLE ROAD.

GRAVEYARD CREEK.

SIX THREE EIGHT THREE SIX THREE EIGHT TWO THREE SEVENTY NINE SIX THREE TWO THREE TWO SEVENTY NINE WE'LL ALL GET CONSIDER LATER.

THANK YOU MR. TIS MS. MOON.

UH, AND TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, HOW ABOUT DITCHES? I MEAN I'VE, I'VE BEEN SHOVELING MY DITCH, BUT UH, DO YOU, IS THERE A PHONE NUMBER THAT I CAN CALL TO SAY, COULD THE COUNTY COME OUT AND SHOVEL FOR A WHILE? CUZ IT IT OVERFLOWS THE CULVERT BECAUSE THE DITCH IS FULL? YES, MA'AM.

THE GENERAL HIGHWAY'S PHONE, HOME PHONE NUMBER AND I , I CAN TRY TO FIND THAT , I DON'T CALL IT VERY OFTEN.

AND THE, THE, THE C CLICK AND FIX FEATURE OF THE WEBSITE, WHICH I UNDERSTAND IT MIGHT BE HARD TO FIND NOW SINCE THE THINGS HAVE BEEN REDONE, BUT WHEREVER IT IS ON THE WEBSITE, THAT IS AN EXCELLENT PLACE TO REPORT ANY CONCERNS ON BOTH SIDES OR ANY PUBLIC SIDE OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH EITHER OUR ROADS OR OUR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT GET TO US GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS AUTOMATICALLY GOES INTO A SYSTEM THAT GETS REPORTED TO US IMMEDIATELY.

SO THAT'S VERY HELPFUL TOO.

IT'S ACTUALLY FASTER AND MORE ACCURATE THAN TELEPHONE CALLS, QUITE HONESTLY.

THANK YOU MS. FOLEY.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO INFORM YOU, I TOLD OUR PERSON THAT RUNS OUR WEBSITE AND DOES EVERYTHING TO PUT THE YOUTH LIKELY FIXED BACK ON THE PAGE.

EASIER TO SIGN.

UM, ANYONE ELSE, BUT IF IT'S A STATE ROAD THAT WON'T GET FIXED.

CORRECT? CORRECT.

THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

WE GOT A LOT OF STATE ROADS ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, AND THEY DON'T FIX ANYTHING.

AND STATE HIGHWAY HAS AN ELECTRONIC ONLINE REPORTING FEATURE VERY SIMILAR TO RC CLICK AND FIX THAT.

QUITE OFTEN WHEN THOSE INQUIRIES COME INTO ME IS WHEN I KNOW IT'S A STATE ROAD, I'LL SEND THAT LINK OUT TO, UH, TO THOSE FOLKS AND THEY CAN DO THE SAME TYPE OF ENTRY TO, TO THE STATE.

CAN'T GUARANTEE HOW QUICKLY THE STATE WILL DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT AT LEAST THE INFORMATION THAT GETS DIRECTLY TO THEM WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH A THIRD PARTY.

BUT THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE THE, UM, THE NEW LIAISON POSITION WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO TRANSLATE THAT AS WELL.

RIGHT? THEY CERTAINLY COULD, BUT AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE A REFERRAL TO THIS, RIGHT? WE, WE'LL THE, THE U THAT ARE NOT BEING DEALT WITH.

WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY IN OUR REGULAR MEETINGS AND THROUGH OUR LIAISON TO FIX, REMIND THEM ABOUT IT, TO LEAVE TO THINGS THAT ARE RUNNING LATER THAN THEY SHOULD.

COULD WE FIX IT AND BILL IN? YEAH, YOU GET PAID WE'LL GET PAID.

LET'S MOVE ON.

GREAT IDEA.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT QUESTION.

OH, IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

GREAT QUESTION.

OBJECTIVE.

ANYONE ELSE WITH ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, BOB.

YOU HAD ONE .

WE KNEW THE ANSWER TO THAT FLOORS ASKED, BUT IT'S A GOOD ONE.

GET A LAWYER.

ROBBIE, WHO'S NEXT? I THINK NEXT, YES, LET'S BRING, LET'S BRING CHRISTINA NEXT.

LET'S BRING THAT, YES, LET'S BRING CHRISTINA AND WE WILL NOW DISCUSS WATERSHED MANAGEMENT.

USED TO BE CALLED STORMWATER NO LONG AGO.

WHAT PAGE ARE WE GOING TO? WE ARE GOING TO PAGE 4 21 AND 4 22 OF COURSE THIS.

AND THEN WHAT, WE'LL WE CAN DISCUSS THE OPERATING PORTION OF HER BUDGET AND THEN WE CAN SWITCH TO THE, TO THE CAPITAL, CAPITAL PORTION.

SO IN THE OPERATING PORTION OF HER BUDGET, WHICH IS ALL A SPECIAL REVENUE FUND.

ALWAYS SEEM TO BE VERY THOROUGH.

, UM, ALL THESE OPERATIONS ARE, IT IS A, UH, PROPOSED BUDGET OF 2.8 MILLION THAT REPRESENTS A INCREASE OF $472,000 THAT IS LARGELY DUE TO, UM, AN INCREASE OF 370,000 FOR FUNDING FOR MANAGEMENT SERVICES OF PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, UM, COMBINED AND MOVED TO ENGINEERING SERVICES.

UM, THIS IS FOR FIVE CURRENT SUPPLEMENTAL STAFF USED FOR OUTSIDE CONSULTING THAT HAVE BEEN BILLED TO THE CAPITAL PROJECTS, UM, IN THE PAST.

SO THIS WAS STUFF THAT WAS ALREADY BEING BEING DONE UNDER ON THE CAPITAL SIDE AND, AND MOVING IT TO THE OPERATING, OPERATING SIDE.

SO WITH THAT, I THINK WE CAN, WE CAN START ON THE OP IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON THE, ON THE OPERATING.

UM, AGAIN, BEFORE WE START QUESTIONING, I JUST WANT TO THANK, UH, YOU MS. BUCKLEY FOR YOUR PRESENTATIONS AT THE BOARD OF ESTIMATES AS WELL.

THEY

[01:50:01]

UM, BUT WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND, AND I'LL, I'LL ASK MR. PENMAN TO FOLLOW UP ON MY QUESTION.

HE'S GONNA DO IT MUCH MORE ELOQUENTLY THAN I WILL .

UM, YES.

THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT.

SO ON PAGE 28, UM, OF THE MAIN BINDER, UH, IT HAS 30 MILLION, UH, DEDICATED TO THE WATER SHED MANAGEMENT FUND.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, A A A PORTION OF THAT IS FROM THE TRANSFER TAX AS WELL.

SO IS THE TRANSFER TAX PUT IT INTO THAT 30 MILLION THAT'S FOR THE MANAGEMENT FUND ON THERE OR IS IT IN ADDITION TO IT? WOULD IT THIS SO THIS IS JUST A RESERVE.

IT'S NOT PART OF AN APPROPRIATION, BUT IT'S RESERVED IN THE GENERAL, IT'S GENERAL FUND DOLLARS.

UM, IT IS, IS NOT RELATED TO THE, TO THE TRANSFER TAX.

AND, AND PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO, UM, LOOK AT SOME OF THIS IS TO GO TO PAGE, UM, YOU GO TO PAGE, UM, UH, ONE, UM, ONE 19.

UM, AND ACTUALLY, YEAH, ONE EVEN ACTUALLY, I'M SORRY, WHAT? YEAH, WHAT'S, UM, REALLY KIND OF STARTING ON PAGE, UH, PAGE ONE 15 THROUGH THROUGH ONE 19, THIS KIND OF SPEAKS TO SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE ISSUES AT PLAY.

SO WATERSHED MANAGEMENT, AND I'M GONNA GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY HERE.

UM, BACK DURING THE O'MALLEY ADMINISTRATION WHEN WE ALL HAD HEARD ABOUT THE RAIN TAX AND THAT YOU NEEDED TO, UM, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NEEDED TO, UH, PUT A FEE OR A TAX, UM, ON IMPERVIOUS SURFACE IN ORDER TO PAY FOR OUR MS FOUR, UH, OBLIGATIONS, WHICH DEAL WITH STORMWATER, STORMWATER RUNOFF.

WE WERE REQUIRED AT THAT TIME TO, IF WE WERE NOT GONNA HAVE A RAIN TAX, UM, OR A STORMWATER FEE IF YOU WILL, UH, WE NEEDED TO IDENTIFY A DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE ABOUT EIGHT YEARS AGO.

WE, WE USED A PORTION OF RECORDATION THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY USED FOR WATER AND SEWER, BUT WE REALLOCATED THAT, THAT DEDICATED REVENUE, UM, TO STORMWATER NEEDS.

AND WE BRING IN, AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL KIND OF SEE THIS, UM, ON PAGE ONE 15, WE BRING IN ABOUT, WE BRING IN ABOUT $3 MILLION A YEAR FROM, FROM THAT, UM, FROM THAT RECORDATION TAX.

UM, NOW BECAUSE WE WERE COLLECTING THIS RECORDATION TAX FOR, FOR A WHILE, WE BUILT UP A BIT OF A FUND BALANCE IN THIS PARTICULAR FUND.

SO, BUT YOU WILL SEE WHEN YOU LOOK AT, AT HOW THE REVENUE BREAKDOWN IS, WE NEEDED, WE HAD A 6 MILLION BUDGET.

WE HAD 3 MILLION OF IT COME FROM THE RECORDATION AND THEN WE'RE USING AROUND 2.6, 2.7 MILLION OF RECORDATION FUND BALANCE, IF YOU WILL, FROM PRIOR YEARS WHEN WE, WHEN WE HAD MORE REVENUE THAN THAN EXPENDITURES.

NOW IF YOU TURN TO PAGE ONE 19, THIS HERE WILL SHOW YOU THAT WE HAVE, AGAIN, ABOUT $6 MILLION IN EXPENDITURES FOR THESE, UM, IN FISCAL YEAR 24 FOR THESE VARIOUS WATERSHED PROJECTS.

NOW, IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE MIDDLE OF THE AREA, YOU'LL SEE THAT PUBLIC WORKS $2.88 MILLION THAT CORRESPONDS TO THE OPERATING BUDGET, WHICH WE JUST JUST DISCUSSED.

THE 1.9, ALMOST $2 MILLION IS FOR DEBT SERVICE.

SO WHEN WE GET TO THE CAPITAL, ALL OF THOSE PROJECTS WHERE WE HAVE, UM, WHERE WE'RE USING BONDS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ACCUMULATING DEBT SERVICE, UM, OVER TIME, AND THIS IS A NUMBER THAT IS GROWING.

SO WE HAVE ABOUT $2 MILLION IN DEBT SERVICE.

AND THEN WHEN YOU SEE MISCELLANEOUS OF 1 MILLION, TWO 50, THAT IS PAYGO RECORDATION, UM, CASH THAT WE ARE USING IN THE CAPITAL PROJECT TO PAY FOR EXPENDITURES THAT WE DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN BOND, THAT WE NEED CASH FOR.

SO ALL TOLD THOSE, THOSE THREE AREAS ADD UP TO $6 MILLION, NOW WE'RE $6 MILLION AS MORE THAN $3 MILLION.

UM, AND THAT IS WHY WE IN THE GENERAL FUND, WHICH IS NOT RELATED TO THIS RECORDATION, YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT WE HAD AN ONGOING THAT, THAT WE HAD AN UNSUSTAINABLE SITUATION HERE.

AND THIS WAS UNDER THE, UNDER THE PREVIOUS, YOU KNOW, ADMINISTRATION.

WE RECOGNIZED THAT, UM, THE STORMWATER OBLIGATIONS WAS GONNA CONTINUE TO GROW.

THE DEBT SERVICE WOULD GET BIGGER AND BIGGER BECAUSE WE'RE DOING ABOUT SIX, $7 MILLION WORTH OF BONDS EVERY YEAR.

WE ALSO HAD TO TAKE ON SOME ADDITIONAL COSTS RELATED TO THE TOWNS.

UM, SO YOU WERE, YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE ONGOING, ONGOING EXPENDITURES AND RECREATION.

UM, AT LEAST ONLY THE PORTION OF RECREATION HERE WAS NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO KEEP, TO KEEP UP WITH IT.

SO IN ORDER TO KIND OF MEET OUR, UM, OBLIGATIONS WITH THE STATE, WHEN IT COMES TO THE PLANNING OF THIS, UH, THE, THE MS FOUR PERMIT THAT WE SH THAT WE, UM, UH, D PW TOOK TO YOU A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, WE SET ASIDE IN THE GENERAL FUND 30 MILLION TO TELL THE REGULATORS MORE OR LESS THAT HEY,

[01:55:01]

WE HAVE A FUNDABLE PLAN HERE.

UM, SO BECAUSE IF THEY LOOK AT IT AND THEY SAY, WELL WAIT A MINUTE, YOU'RE SPENDING, YOU'RE SPENDING $8 MILLION, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SPENDING ALL THIS MONEY A, A YEAR, BUT YOU'RE ONLY GOT $3 MILLION OF REVENUE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT A SUSTAINABLE PLAN.

YOU'RE PLAYING GAMES.

SO WE PUT 30 MILLION OF GENERAL FUND, DOLLAR OF GENERAL FUND, UM, FUND BALANCE.

WE ASSIGNED IT TO SAY, HEY, IF WE DO FIND THAT WE NEED MONEY, WE CAN TRANSFER IT FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO TO THE STORM WATER FUND SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO MEET OUR OBLIGATIONS.

RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST KIND OF A SET ASIDE.

IT'S KIND OF ALMOST JUST LIKE A, UM, LIKE, LIKE A, LIKE A SET ASIDE IN YOUR, IN YOUR OWN SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

LIKE IF YOU HAD A SET ASIDE FOR, UH, A PARTICULAR EXPENSE, HEY, IF THE CAR GOES UP, I'VE GOT $10,000 SET ASIDE FOR THAT.

SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT IS RIGHT NOW.

IT'S NOT BEING USED.

IT STAYS IN THE GENERAL FUND, BUT ONE OF THESE YEARS, EVENTUALLY THAT, UM, WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY MORE FUND BALANCE WITHIN THE STORMWATER FUND TO, TO, TO, TO DRAW UPON.

AND WE'RE GONNA NEED TO USE THAT, THAT WE'RE GONNA NEED TO DO ONE OF TWO THINGS.

WE ARE EITHER GOING TO NEED TO TAKE THAT, SOME OF THAT GENERAL FUND DOLLARS, UM, WE WOULD RELEASE IT FROM FUND BALANCE AND THEN APPROPRIATE IT AS AN INTER-FUND TRANSFER, OR WE NEED TO DEFINE ANOTHER REVENUE SOURCE, UM, TO SUPPORT THIS, THIS, UM, THIS ENDEAVOR.

WE, SO WHETHER WE WOULD SAY, UM, TAKE MORE RECORDATION OR SUM OF TRANSFER TAX OR A PENNY OF THE PROPERTY TAX OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN COME UP WITH, WITH ANY O UM, OPPORTUNITY, ANY, UM, SCENARIO.

BUT EVENTUALLY WE WILL NEED TO FIND ANOTHER REVENUE SOURCE, UM, AN ONGOING SUSTAINABLE REVENUE SOURCE.

NOW, WE WERE WITH THIS RECORDATION ABLE TO, UM, TO DO A LOT, AND IT BOUGHT US A LOT OF TIME, BUT IT'S NOT A LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

AND SO IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A LONG-TERM SOLUTION, THAT'S WHY WE, WE SET ASIDE 30 MILLION IN CASE WE DO NEED IT IN CASE WE CANNOT FIND ANOTHER NEW DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE.

SO LAST YEAR, 2023, HOW MUCH MONEY WAS SET ASIDE IN THAT FUND? WHAT WAS THE TOTAL MONEY IN THE BUDGET? OH, IN THE, WELL, IT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET.

IT'S IN THE FUND BALANCE.

WE SET ASIDE 30.

WE, WE HAVE KEPT IT AT 30 MILLION FOR A FEW YEARS.

SO IT IS, IT IS A, IT IS A, UM, WITH FUND BALANCE, YOU, YOU HAVE VARIOUS LEVELS OF, OF FUND BALANCE WHERE YOU SAY SOMETIMES THINGS ARE RESTRICTED BY LAW.

SO LIKE IF WE HAVE FUND BALANCE, UM, FOR, UH, WELL, THE HOTEL TAXES IS AN EXAMPLE.

WE CAN ONLY USE HOTEL IF WE HAVE EXTRA HOTEL TAX.

WE CAN ONLY USE THAT FOR TOURISM RELATED DEALS.

SO I WOULD PUT THAT LIKE IN RESTRICTED IF WE HAD EXTRA, EXTRA MONEY THERE.

THEN YOU HAVE ASSIGNMENTS.

AND ASSIGNMENTS ARE MORE OR LESS MANAGEMENT'S DECISIONS TO SAY, HEY, WE KNOW WE'VE GOT SOME COSTS GOING UP.

SO WE SET ASIDE MONEY FOR STORMWATER.

WE HAVE SET ASIDE MONEY FOR CAPPING LANDFILLS.

UH, WE KNOW WHERE WE, THESE COSTS ARE COMING.

FOR MANY YEARS, WE HAD MONEY SET ASIDE IN THERE, UM, FOR THE, UM, DEMOLITION OF, UH, THE INCINERATOR, THE WASTE ENERGY PLAN.

SO, UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU ALSO, IF YOU PLAN ON USING MONEY IN THE UPCOMING, UH, BUDGET, IT'S CONSIDERED AN ASSIGNMENT.

UM, YOU'LL SEE US ASSIGNED TO, UM, ASSIGNED TO, YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR'S APPROPRIATION.

THEN WHAT'S EVER LEFT OVER IS YOU'RE UNASSIGNED AND ARE UNASSIGNED.

IS THAT 30, $35 MILLION, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF, AT THE END OF LAST YEAR.

I KNOW THIS IS CONFUSING.

UM, BUT I, I THINK HOPEFULLY THAT HELP STATEMENT.

SO, UM, I KNOW MR. PENMAN HAS A FOLLOW UP, AND THEN MR. JAN, UNLESS HE ASK, SO I'M JUST, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHY 30 MILLION IS APPROPRIATE AND MAYBE THERE'S A, A REASONABLE EXPLANATION THAT I'M JUST NOT GRASPING BECAUSE THAT'S FIVE TIMES WHAT THE ACTUAL, WHAT, WHAT'S BEING FUNDED, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 6 MILLION AND A HALF OF THAT IS COME, COMES FROM THE RECORDATION UH, TAX.

SO, SO MY QUESTION IS, IS WHY IS THAT 30 MILLION? THERE'S NO STATE REQUIREMENT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE WANNA SEE TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RESERVE, AND I UNDERSTAND HAVING A RESERVE, BUT FIVE TIMES WHAT THE ACTUAL, UH, ALLOTMENT, UM, IS FOR WATERSHED MANAGEMENT.

IT JUST SEEMS IN EXCESS.

WE'RE ASKING OTHER ENTITIES TO EXHAUST THEIR, THEIR GENERAL FUND SOURCES, UM, OR FUND BALANCES.

AND I THINK JUST BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINTY, UH, AND AGAIN, THIS WAS A DECISION THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DID UNDER, UNDER THE, UNDER THE, THE, THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION.

UM, LOOKING AT THOSE FUTURE POTENTIAL COSTS, YOU KNOW, WE WANTED TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA PUT FORTH A NUMBER HERE.

UM, THAT TRULY DOES GIVE US ENOUGH ENOUGH, UM, UH, FLEXIBILITY AND CUSHION, BUT IF WE FIND ANOTHER DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE, WE CAN RELEASE ALL OF THAT.

IT WOULD JUST, WE WOULD PROBABLY SAY, LIKE IF WE WENT AND SAID, LOOK, WE'RE GONNA USE TRANSFER TAX OR MORE OF THE RECORDATION TAX.

SO IT WAS AN ATTEMPT AT KIND OF LOOKING AT OUR LONG-TERM, LONG-TERM EXPENDITURES IN ORDER TO BUY, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN ENOUGH, MORE, MORE THAN ENOUGH YEARS OF, OF SUPPLEMENTAL, OF SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING.

BUT, UH, SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE PLAN PLANNING FOR YEARS TO COME, RIGHT? UH, ON YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND A FUNDING SOURCE WHILE

[02:00:01]

COSTS THAT ARE COMING UP.

BUT WE'RE GONNA BE SITTING ON FIVE TIMES WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEING, UH, BUDGETED FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA.

WELL, I WOULD SAY IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOLS AND THE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE ALSO MADE DECISIONS TO ASSIGN, TO ASSIGN EXPENDITURES TO THINGS THAT THEY HAVE, UM, NOT, NOT ALL NECESSARILY A HUNDRED PERCENT THINGS THAT THEY HAVE TO DO OR THINGS THAT THEY WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE.

UM, AND WHETHER THAT IS, YOU KNOW, PURCHASE NEW EQUIPMENT OR WHETHER THAT IS TO COVER LEASE PAYMENTS.

UM, SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE ASSIGNED AREA, IT'S, IT'S, UM, THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE, THOSE ENTITIES HAVE USED THEIR, UM, THEIR MANAGEMENT FLEXIBILITY IN ORDER TO SAY, HEY, WE THINK THESE THINGS ARE COMING DOWN THE ROAD.

UM, SO LIKE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WILL SAY THAT THEY HAVE A A 30, UM, 35 MILLION UNASSIGNED, WHICH IS ACTUALLY VERY, THAT WAS THE EQUIVALENT THAT WE ENDED UP LAST YEAR.

AND THEN THEY'LL SAY THAT THE REST OF IT IS LARGELY ASSIGNED, YOU KNOW, SOME OF IT'S RESTRICTED, UM, AS, AS WELL.

SO YES, THOSE ARE, UM, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE MANAGEMENT, UH, DECISIONS IN ORDER TO TRY TO, TO, UH, UM, TO PROVIDE THAT ASSURANCE.

AND WE DO INCLUDE THAT IN THAT MS FOUR, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THAT MS FOUR, UM, YOU KNOW, DOCUMENT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING AGAIN, IF, IF, IF WE DON'T PASS THE A IF OUR, IF OUR FISCAL ASSURANCE PLAN DOESN'T PASS, UH, YOU KNOW, MUSTER WITH THE STATE, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE ARE THEN ACTIONS THAT THEY CAN TAKE, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE ULTIMATELY A CONSENT ORDER THAT YOU KNOW, WELL, YOU, YOU NEED TO DO THIS AND THIS AND THIS.

AND SO, BUT I, I MEAN, I'M GONNA AGREE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A, UM, I CAN'T POINT TO A SPECIFIC, TO A SPECIFIC, UH, YOUR LAW TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS TO BE, YOU KNOW, 10% OF THE BUDGET.

UM, BUT I THINK THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY A, UM, A NEW DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY A NEW DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE IS, IS ONE OF TWO THINGS.

WE'RE EITHER TAKING IT AWAY FROM SOMETHING ELSE.

SO IN THAT CASE OF THE RECORDATION, WE DID TAKE IT FROM WATER AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE WATER AND SOURCE SYSTEM.

UM, BUT THE OTHER PLACE WHERE RECORDA, YOU KNOW, TWO-THIRDS OF RECORDATION GOES TO SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION, ONE THIRD GOES TO PARKS, I'M SORRY, ONE SIX GOES TO PARKS, ONE SIX GOES TO, UM, UH, WATERSHED MANAGEMENT, AND THEN TRANSFER TAX HALF GOES TO SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION AND HALF GOES TO AG PRES.

UM, SO IF YOU WERE JUST USING THAT, THAT SMALL UNIVERSE THERE, YOU WOULD EITHER HAVE TO INCREASE THE OVERALL TAX OR YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE FROM ONE OF THOSE, THOSE, THOSE AREAS.

MR. JK, SO PIGGYBACKING ON, UH, COUNCILMAN PENMAN, I AGREE, THE 30 MILLION, BUT WHERE DID THE 30 MILLION COME FROM? YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE WERE LOOKING AT, AT, AT, UM, AT, AT SOME OF THE LONG TERM TRENDS AND WANTED TO HAVE A, UM, A, A SOLID ENOUGH NUMBER IN THERE THAT, THAT, THAT WE COULD GO WITH CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME WITH, WITHOUT, UM, WITHOUT HAVING TO IDENTIFY THAT NEW FUNDING SOURCE.

UM, BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AGAIN, IT'S, BUT WHERE DID IT COME FROM? WHERE DID THE 30 MILLION COME FROM? I MEAN, LARGELY JUST, JUST INTERNAL, INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS.

SO INTERNAL.

SO, SO NEXT YEAR, IF WE NEEDED THE MONEY, WE INTERNALLY, IF WE DON'T PUT 30 MILLION, SO WE CAN BASICALLY TAKE SOME OF THAT 30 MILLION AND, AND IF WE NEEDED TO AND WE PUT AN AMENDMENT, WE CAN MOVE SOME OF THAT 30 MILLION AROUND AND WE CAN GIVE YOU TWICE THE AMOUNT YOU, YOU GOTTA SEND IT BACK TO GENERAL FUND IF YOU TRIED TO DO IT.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

IT, IT WOULD JUST FALL TO THE NEWS FOR WHATEVER IN GENERAL PUBLIC IT WOULD, BUT, BUT THEN AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO, I MEAN, YEAH, WE COULD, WE COULD RE YOU KNOW, YOU WELL, COUNCIL DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO, UM, TO, TO MAKE THOSE ASSIGNMENT CHANGES WITHIN APPROPRIATE WITHIN, WITHIN, WITHIN FUND, WITHIN FUND BALANCE.

I MEAN, THAT'S A, THAT'S AN, AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH FUNCTION.

HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE HAD A BUDGET WHEREBY WE APPROPRIATED MORE, AND IF WE CAME KIND OF TO THE END OF, UM, AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, UM, LIKE I WOULDN'T JUST, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE WOULDN'T GO INTO DEFAULT OR WE WOULDN'T, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE THE UNASSIGNED BE SO LOW.

UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, KEEP THAT, THAT, THAT, UM, THAT 30 MILLION THERE, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD PROBABLY BE ADJUSTING.

SO, BUT I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS GOES INTO, UM, THIS GETS INTO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, FISCAL MANAGEMENT.

NOW, I WILL SAY, WHEN WE GO TO DEAL WITH THE CREDIT RATING AGENCIES, AND WE GO THROUGH THE FUND BALANCE, AND WE SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A $200 MILLION FUND BALANCE.

WE'RE USING 90 MILLION OF IT NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, WE HAVE A 5% RAINY DAY FUND.

AND THEN WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THAT STORMWATER.

AND THAT IS ONE, YOU KNOW, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY LIKE TO SEE THAT THERE AS WELL BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE TO SEE IN YOUR ASSIGNMENTS IS, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT YOU'RE HIDING MONEY PER SE, BUT THAT YOU'RE LIKE, HEY, THEY'RE AWARE THAT THEY HAVE THESE COSTS COMING DOWN THE, THAT THEY HAVE THESE, THESE TRUE LIABILITIES, THESE TRUE

[02:05:01]

AND THEY'RE COMING UP PROBABLY SOONER THAN, THAN, THAN, THAN YOU REALIZE, BECAUSE WE'RE VERY QUICKLY DRAWING DOWN THE AVAILABLE FUND BALANCE IN THE STORMWATER FUND.

UM, AND THAT GIVES THEM AND THE INVESTMENT COMMUNITY, UM, UH, THAT, THAT GIVES THEM, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR HERE? IT'S NOT, NOT PAUL, IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF PAULS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT ASSURES THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FUN BALANCE THAT WE CAN MANAGE THESE, UM, UH, THESE POTENTIAL SHORTFALLS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A, IT'S AN ART MORE THAN A SCIENCE.

UM, IT IS A, IT IS A, IT IS A DECISION, BUT IF WE JUST GOT RID OF IT AND THEN WE JUST SPENT IT, WE JUST SPENT, WE JUST SPENT THAT MONEY ON SOMETHING ELSE IN THE, IN THE GENERAL FUND, YOU KNOW, THEN IT'S NOT THERE.

AND THEN WE'RE STILL GONNA BE RIGHT BACK TO THEN A YEAR FROM NOW, WE WOULD BE RIGHT BACK TO THE SAME SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, IT GOES BACK TO THIS IS ONE TIME MONEY.

UM, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SPENDING IT, YEAH.

I'M TALKING ABOUT NOT HAVING IT AT 30 MILLION, LIKE, LIKE COUNCIL I PENMAN SAID, AND MAYBE INSTEAD OF 30 MILLION, MAYBE IT'S 15 MILLION AND YOU'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL TWICE OF WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROJECTING AND, AND YOU OBVIOUSLY PULLED IT FROM SOMEWHERE, SO DOWN THE ROAD YOU COULD PULL IT AGAIN FROM SOMEWHERE.

I MEAN, WE CAN, YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE YOUR ASSIGNMENTS WITHIN, UH, WITHIN FUND BALANCE BASED UPON THE NEEDS.

AGAIN, IF WE HAD A, A SIGNIFICANT EMERGENCY, YEAH, WE WOULD, WE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, HEY, WE WERE PLANNING ON KEEPING 30 MILLION.

WE CAN'T, WE GOTTA, WE GOTTA MAKE IT, WE GOTTA MAKE IT 20 AND WE GOTTA CHANGE SOMETHING ELSE HERE.

BUT WE KNOW THAT THOSE, THOSE ARE REAL COSTS, AND WE KNOW THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A DEDICATED REVENUE FUNDING SOURCE RIGHT NOW.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IS, IS, IS ON THE IMMEDIATE AGENDA, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AS IF WE HAVE HAVE, UH, UM, A PENDING PLAN TO, UH, TO CHANGE ONE OF THOSE REVENUE SOURCES.

SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THAT, THOSE FUNDS THERE.

SO GO AHEAD.

I'M SORRY.

SO EVEN IF WE HAD A CATASTROPHE, SO MAYBE THE STATE COMES IN AND DECLARES THEIR EMERGENCY AND WE GET STATE FUNDS OR FEDERAL FUNDS, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT BIG THAT, YOU KNOW, A HURRICANE COMES UP THROUGH HERE AND DOES SOMETHING AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THEY DECLARE A STATE OF EMERGENCY IN, IN THEIR STATE FUNDS AND FEDERAL FUNDS YEAH.

AS WELL FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, CORRECT? YEAH.

AND IF WE HAD CERTAIN, YEAH, SOME, SOMETIMES IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WOULD BE REIMBURSED BY FEMA OR, OR OTHER COSTS LIKE THAT FOR, UM, FOR, FOR SOME OF THOSE CERTAIN DOWNTURNS.

BUT AGAIN, IF WE, AND IF WE HAD TO, IF WE FOUND IT THAT THEY WERE LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE WEIRD PART WITH FEMA REIMBURSEMENTS A LOT OF TIMES IS, UM, I KNOW THIS IS THE CASE WITH SNOW.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERY, YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU, YOU TOP THE PREVIOUS SNOWFALL, YOU DON'T GET ANY MONEY.

AND, AND SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE, LIKE A, LIKE AN ESCALATING, UH, UH, UH, ESCALATING RE REIMBURSEMENT.

UM, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE ABNORMAL EXPENDITURES DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO GET, UM, THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET REIMBURSEMENT.

BUT IF WE NEEDED TO TAP INTO THAT MONEY, IT IS, IT'S A, IT IS A, IS A MANAGEMENT DECISION TO DO AN ASSIGNMENT.

BUT I THINK IT'S A PRUDENT ONE, ONE THAT THE CREDIT RATING AGENCIES DO AGREE WITH, ONE THAT THE STATE REGULATORS AT THE EPA, AT THE STATE, UM, THE STATE'S ENVIRONMENTAL, UM, UH, AGENCIES, UM, LIKE TO SEE AS WELL, BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT WE HAVE A LEGITIMATE PLAN.

IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT, THEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING TO, UM, UH, TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATORS AND TO THE COMMUNITY IS THAT, HEY, WE ARE SPENDING SIX, SEVEN, $8 MILLION A YEAR AND WE'RE ONLY BRINGING IN THREE.

AND THEY'RE GONNA SAY, WELL, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

AND SO THIS IS A WAY OF, OF, OF SAYING, OKAY, WE, BUT WE HAVE THESE MON, THESE DEDICATED RE YOU KNOW, DE UH, NOT, NOT LEGALLY DEDICATED, BUT ASSIGNED REVENUES THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO MEET OUR OBLIGATION.

HOW, HOW MANY YEARS BASED ON CURRENT TRENDS ARE WE FROM HAVING TO TOUCH THAT FUND? UM, I, I'LL HAVE TO GET THOSE, THOSE NUMBERS.

UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY, IT'S A MATTER OF THAT AMOUNT OF YEARS, UH, PLUS THE AMOUNT OF YEARS THAT THE, THIS ADDITIONAL FUND BALANCE IS THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE HAVE, UM, TO, TO, TO, TO ADDRESS THE, THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT IN THE FUNDING.

THAT IS FUNCTIONING WITHOUT A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

AND SO IT'S REALLY A QUESTION OF HOW MUCH TIME DO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT STRUCTURAL DEFICIT? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH TIME IS APPROPRIATE TO, TO, TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO YOU FUND WATERSHED MANAGEMENT? RIGHT? AND I, BECAUSE WHETHER YOU SAID IT, YOU COULD SAY IT AT 15 MILLION, 30 MILLION, 300 MILLION, BUT IF AT THE END OF THE DAY THE DETERMINATION IS WE DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING TO MOVE MONEY TOWARDS WATERSHED MANAGEMENT TO, TO ELIMINATE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, UM, THEN EVENTUALLY THAT MONEY'S GONNA RUN OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD SET TO 15 MILLION AND THEN HAVE THE AGREEMENT OF, BUT WE'RE GONNA ADDRESS THAT STRUCTURAL DEFICIT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER AND, AND, AND, AND MOVE FORWARD.

AND, AND THAT WE'RE GONNA BE PRUDENT WITH OUR FUNDING SOURCES.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA RESTRUCTURE OUR GOVERNMENT IN A WAY THAT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS TO BE AN, UH, UH, A BIG PUSH OF OUR NEW EXECUTIVE OFFICE, THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT

[02:10:01]

I THINK THAT CAN EXTEND TO OUR WATERSHED MANAGEMENT, YOU KNOW, SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED AS BIG OF A, A FUND BALANCE BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA ADDRESS THAT ISSUE HEAD ON RATHER THAN, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVE, UH, EXCESS, UH, FUND BALANCE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT ADDRESSING THE ISSUE.

SO THAT IS JUST, UH, SOMETHING THAT I WAS CONSIDERING, CUZ IT'S ALMOST LIKE, UM, A SECONDARY FUND BALANCE BEYOND THE, THE, THE ONE THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE, THE SYSTEM ITSELF.

BUT THEN BEYOND THAT, I ALSO JUST WANTED TO ASK, HAVE YOU ALL WITHIN WATERSHED MANAGEMENT BEEN OUT TO HAVE ANY GRACE TO SEE OUR, UH, LIVING SHORELINE? UM, I, I HAVE NOT BEEN THERE SPECIFICALLY TO WALK THE SITE.

NO.

UM, IT'S JUST, I, IT'S A BIG, UH, AREA OF PRIDE FOR US.

I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE FROM JAPAN COME AND SEE IT, YOU KNOW, FROM OTHER COUNTIES, FROM OTHER STATES.

UM, IT'S REALLY, I THINK LIKE WHERE WE'RE HEADING IN 21ST CENTURY WATERSHED MANAGEMENT, YOU KNOW, WATER TREATMENT, HELPING THE CHESAPEAKE BAY, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, HARTFORD COUNTY'S THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE FOR ALL, ALL THAT COMES FROM PENNSYLVANIA, NEW YORK, UM, IT, IT THROUGH OUR WATERSHED.

AND I JUST, I THINK IT'S PHENOMENAL.

UM, AND I THINK FOR ALL THE REST OF OUR, UH, LAND THAT BORDERS, YOU KNOW, THE BUSH RIVER, THE, UM, THE SUSQUEHANNA RIVER, LIKE THOSE TYPES OF PROJECTS I THINK ARE OUR FUTURE.

AND I'M, I'M REALLY, UH, BULLISH ON THAT TYPE OF WORK.

I THINK IT'S, AND IT DOUBLES AS A PARK, IT DOUBLES AS A BEAUTIFUL THING TO LOOK AT.

UM, I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT WORK.

IT'S, IT'S BEEN REALLY GREAT TO SEE IT POP UP AND, AND I HAVE BEEN THERE AND I HAVE SEEN IT AS A MATTER OF FACT, UH, A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THAT PROJECT WAS BEING INITIATED BY THE CITY, UH, HARFORD COUNTY, THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION PROVIDED, UH, SOME ESSENTIALLY GRANT MONEY TRANSFERRED TO THE CITY TO HELP THEM GET STARTED IN THAT PROCESS.

SO WE, WE CONTRIBUTED IN THAT WAY, UH, BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT PROJECT FOR THEM.

SO IT HAS REALLY TURNED OUT WELL.

I AGREE.

KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE SENDING ABOUT $800,000 TO, UM, TO THE TOWNS, WHICH THEY ARE THEN USING TO DO THEIR OWN PROJECTS FOR.

, MR. CMEC, WAS THAT A MILLION DOLLARS OR 1.5 MM-HMM.

, I, I THINK I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, MS. SADDLES, HAVE WE EVER HAD TO PULL MONEY FROM THIS FUND? WELL, WE PULLED FOR ANY PROJECTS.

UH, I'M SORRY.

SO WHEN YOU SAY WHICH, WHICH, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE WE, THE $30 MILLION THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT? SO THE, NO, SO THE, THE, THE $30 MILLION IS AN ASSIGNMENT WITHIN, WITHIN THE FUND BALANCE.

WE PULL MONEY FROM THE FUND BALANCE ALL THE TIME.

SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IT, UM, AND THE FUND BALANCE IS KIND OF IN A CONSTANT STATE OF, OF GETTING BIGGER, GETTING SMALLER, GETTING BIGGER, GETTING SMALLER.

WE HAVE NOT CHANGED THE 30 MILLION.

I HAVE TO GO BACK AND SEE WHAT YEAR WE, WHAT YEAR WE ASSIGNED THAT 30 MILLION.

IT WAS UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOUR MAYBE, MAYBE FOUR YEARS AGO OR SOMETHING IN THAT RANGE.

SO WE HAVE NOT NEEDED TO DO THAT YET BECAUSE WE HAVE, WE'RE NOT YET RUNNING THIS, THIS DEFICIT.

BUT AGAIN, IF WE'RE BRINGING IN THREE AND WE'RE SPENDING SIX, YOU KNOW, AND THE ONLY REASON WE HAD SOME ADDITIONAL SETUP IS BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST MOVED THE STORMWATER, I'M SORRY, WHEN WE FIRST MOVED RECORDATION TO THERE, WE HAD VERY LIMITED COSTS.

YOU HAD, YOU WERE BONDING PROJECTS, LARGELY BONDING PROJECTS, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU WEREN'T HAVING THE DEBT SERVICE UNTIL, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER.

SO YOU KIND OF HAD A, A FEW YEARS TO, YOU WERE BRINGING IN, IN $3 MILLION OF RECORDATION AND NOT REALLY SPENDING A WHOLE LOT.

NOW THAT DEBT SERVICE, YOU KNOW, THE DEBT SERVICE NUMBER IS, UM, $2 MILLION AND IT'S CONTINUING TO GROW.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT EACH AND EVERY BOND SALE, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF GETS INTO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET WE HAVE, I'M, I'M SKIPPING THE HEADING NOW TO CAPITAL, BUT WE HAVE BONDS OF, OF, IT'S ALL UNDER, OH, I'M SORRY, UH, 8.68, YOU KNOW, SO WE ARE CONTINUING TO DO MORE AND MORE BONDING IN THIS.

AND ANOTHER CHANGE WHICH WE HAD, UM, OH, ACTUALLY THERE'S TWO BIG SIGNIFICANT CHANGES, WHICH IS ALSO ADDED TO THE, ON THE OPERATING SIDE.

UM, AND THERE, THERE ARE SOMEWHAT RELATED, THERE WAS A COMPONENT OF THE, UM, THE STATE LAW THAT SAID THAT, OKAY, IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET RID OF, IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A RAIN TAX, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOMETHING ELSE, THEN YOU NEED TO COME TO AN ARRANGEMENT WITH THE MUNICIPALITIES AND YOU PRETTY MUCH EITHER HAVE TO DO ALL THEIR PROJECTS FOR THEM OR COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF REVENUE SHARING AGREEMENT.

SO WE THEN MET WITH THE THREE TOWNS AND WE AGREED TO SHARE APPROXIMATELY 20% OF ANY REVENUE THAT WE BRING INTO THIS, UM, INTO THIS FUND.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, WHERE IS IT HERE IN THE, UM, IT IS UNDER, UM, THE, UNDER THIS ON PAGE 4 22, LIKE YOU'LL SEE THIS, UH, THIS MISCELLANEOUS, UM, THIS MISCELLANEOUS SECTION PAYMENTS TO OTHER, OTHER TOWNS, ABOUT $800,000.

WE HAVE, YOU

[02:15:01]

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT THE TOWN KIND OF INSISTED UPON, AND I CAN SEE THEIR POINT IS THEY SAID, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF YOUR STORMWATER, UM, RELATED EXPENSES ARE IN THIS, IN, IN THIS SPECIAL, SPECIAL FUND.

CUZ BEFORE THAT WE ONLY HAD THE CAPITAL PORTION AND WE HAD THEIR OPERATING PORTION, LIKE THE SALARIES OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WORK IN THERE, KIND OF JUST IN THE GENERAL FUND.

SO WE NEEDED TO MOVE ALL OF THOSE EXPENDITURES INTO THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO NOW IT'S, IT'S BEING, IT'S COMING OUT OF THAT, THAT RECORDATION MONEY, WHICH IS MEANS THAT, THAT WE'RE NOW PULLING DOWN THOSE RESOURCES THAT MUCH FASTER.

SO AGAIN, IN THE, WE HAVE NOT HAD TO PULL FROM THAT, THAT 30 MILLION, HOWEVER WE ARE NOW, WE ARE NOW SPENDING JUST NEXT YEAR ALONE TWICE WHAT WE ARE BRINGING IN, IN REVENUE.

AND SO WE KNOW THAT THAT IS, IS COMING AND HOPEFULLY WE DO, WE FIND A, WE FIND A DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE, AND THEN WE CAN RELEASE THAT FUND BALANCE AND USE IT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN OTHER WAYS OR, YOU KNOW, FOR OTHER LIABILITIES.

MR. PENMAN, UM, CHRISTINE, I'M SORRY TO HIJACK YOUR TIME ON THIS, ON, ON MORE GLOBAL CONVERSATION.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IT, THE COST IS GOING UP, YOU SAID TWICE WHAT YOU'RE BRINGING IN, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE SAID, 6 MILLION.

AND I GUESS THE HARD THING FOR MYSELF AND MAYBE, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS TO ABSORB IS, UM, WHAT WE HAVE LISTED HERE AND WHAT WE'RE TOUTING IS A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT IN THAT THE GENERAL FUND, UNASSIGNED FUND BALANCE IS $10 MILLION, BUT WE'RE PUTTING $30 MILLION OVER INTO A SIDE POT THAT, YOU KNOW, COULD, OR WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A REASONABLE EXPLANATION ON WHY IT NEEDS TO BE 30 MILLION.

IT'S JUST A NUMBER THAT WE, WE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH, UH, WHEN IT COULD BE USED FOR ANYTHING ELSE OR PUT BACK IN THE GENERAL FUND FOR OTHER EXPENSES THAT, THAT'S THE CONCERN THOUGH.

SO IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL WITHIN THE GENERAL FUND.

AND WHAT IT JUST IS, IS JUST SAYING THAT, HEY, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE, WE ARE PUTTING LIKE, UH, A, A TAG ON IT TO SAY, SO IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THE REGULATORS, UM, AND THE, LIKE, THAT WE HAVE A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF FUNDING THERE AS A, AS A BACKSTOP AT ALL.

SO THAT'S, IT'S NOT BEING USED, NOT BEING SPENT, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S STAYING THERE.

UM, AND IT IS PART OF AN OVERALL FUND FUND BALANCE STRATEGY, BUT IT GOES BACK TO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FINANCIAL ASSURANCE PLAN THAT IS THAT, THAT WE NEEDED TO COME UP WITH, WITH, WITH SOMETHING THAT, UM, THAT, UH, SATISFIES THE REGULATORS AT, AT, AT, AT, AT THE STATE.

AND THAT'S WHY WE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THAT NUMBER THERE.

YOU KNOW, IS IT A FLEXIBLE NUMBER? SURE.

BUT AGAIN, EVEN IF WE, IF WE DO GET RID OF IT, UM, OR REDUCE IT, IT'S ONE, IT IS STILL JUST ONE TIME, IT IS STILL ONE TIME MONEY.

AND IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

THIS FUND HAS A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT AS WELL.

WHEN YOU HAVE 6 MILLION OF EXPENDITURES AND 3 MILLION OF REVENUE, AND YOU'RE USING PRIOR FUND BALANCE, THAT AGAIN IS, THAT'S WHAT A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT IS.

AND IT'S THE SAME THING THAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR GENERAL FUND, THAT WE HAVE EXPENDITURES HERE, REVENUE'S HERE, AND BECAUSE WE DID BUILD UP SOME FUND BALANCE IN PRIOR YEARS, WE'RE USING THAT TO FILL THE GAP.

BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, BOTH OF THESE FUNDS HAVE STRUCTURAL, STRUCTURAL DEFICITS.

UM, SO MR. SANDIS, UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UM, PART OF THE REASON OR, OR THE LOGIC FOR THE $30 MILLION THAT'S BEEN CARRIED OVER FOR A FEW YEARS, PART OF THAT'S DEMEANOR STATE FINANCIAL SHORT PLAN.

UM, MR. GUTHRIE, UH, HAVING SAID ON 12 DIFFERENT BUDGETS SESSIONS BEFORE AND LISTENED TO ALL THIS BACK AND FORTH, MY OBSERVATION FROM THIS 30 MILLION CONVERSATION IS THAT BASICALLY THE 30 MILLION STOLE PAPER UNTIL YOU NEED IT, THEN WHEN YOU NEED IT, YOU GOTTA GO FIND IT.

WELL, WOULD THAT BE A GOOD, I I WOULD EXPLANATION.

I I WOULD SAY LIKE, LET'S, LET'S JUST SAY THAT YOU HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND, AND I'M JUST GONNA, I WANNA MAKE IT A, LIKE A, A, A BIG NUMBER.

YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT, UM, $50,000 IN YOUR SAVINGS ACCOUNT, AND IT'S ALL IN THE SAME SAVINGS ACCOUNT, AND IT'S NOT AS IF YOU'RE REQUIRED, BUT IN YOUR MIND YOU'RE LIKE, ALL RIGHT, I GOT $20,000 IN HERE, UM, IN CASE I LOSE MY JOB, I'VE GOT $5,000 IN HERE IN CASE MY CAR BREAKS DOWN.

I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, 10,000 IN HERE IN CASE I NEED SOMETHING BIG ON THE HOUSE.

NOW IF SOMETHING BIG HAPPENS IN THE, IN THE HOUSE OR YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU, YOU WOULD SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, I CAN ONLY TOUCH THIS PORTION.

YOU'RE KIND OF JUST PLANNING.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU, YOU HAVE A TOTAL IMBALANCE OF THIS BIG, AND YOU'RE TRYING TO, TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, LET'S THINK THROUGH SOME OF OUR BIG THINGS.

YOU KNOW, KNOW, WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO SET MONEY ASIDE FOR, FOR CERTAIN EXPENDITURES.

AND THIS IS ONE OF 'EM, THIS IS ONE WHERE WE'RE LIKE, WE KNOW WE NEED TO SET MONEY ASIDE.

UM, BUT IF THINGS CHANGE, THEN YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S NOT REAL.

WE CAN ONLY SPEND MONEY ONCE THE COUNCIL GIVES US THE AUTHORITY TO, TO SPEND IT.

SO CORRECT.

WE ARE SAVING IT, BUT WE CAN ONLY SPEND IT ONE AND SPEND IT IN THOSE, IN, IN WHATEVER BUDGET IT IS IN, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE GET COUNCIL, COUNCIL AUTHORITY.

SO THANKS.

UM, MR. STOVER,

[02:20:01]

DOES THAT PLAN HAVE A SPECIFIC BENCHMARK THAT SAYS WHETHER IT'S REIS RATIO OF YOUR GENERAL FUND, WHETHER IT'S A DOLLAR FIGURE, WHETHER IT'S PERCENTAGE OR TOTAL BUDGET, THAT IF YOU'RE ABOVE THAT NUMBER, YOU'RE GOOD AND YOU'RE BELOW THAT NUMBER, YOU'RE NOT.

IS THERE A BRIGHT LINE TEST? I, I, BECAUSE MOST, MOST OF THE OTHER COUNTIES HAVE, UM, THEY HAVE STORMWATER FEES.

YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, UH, ALL THE OTHER METRO COUNTIES, THEY HAVE THE RAIN TAX.

UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ABLE TO MAKE, TO MEET THEIR OBLIGATIONS KIND OF BA BASED ON THAT.

WE HAVE A DEDICATED REVENUE SOURCE.

I THINK CARROLL COUNTY IS SIMILAR TO IT.

I THINK THEY'RE USING LIKE A, A PORTION OF THEIR PROPERTY WHERE, AND TO ANSWER YOUR, YOUR BIG QUESTION, NO, I, YOU KNOW, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC DEAL OTHER THAN THEY LOOK AT WHAT OUR PLANNED EXPENDITURES ARE, AND THEN THEY LOOK AT WHAT OUR PLANNED REVENUES ARE, AND THERE'S CLEARLY A GAP THERE.

IT'S SUNNYVALE, YOU, SUNNYVIEW, SUNNYVIEW.

UM, MR. SCHERZER, JUST TO ADD TO THE COUNCIL MEMBERS'S POINTS AND MR. STOVER'S POINT, LOOKING AT THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS FROM 2022, WHICH HAS A 10 YEAR LOOK BACK FOR FUND BALANCE, YOU KNOW, IF WE STICK JUST WITHIN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, THE FUND BALANCE THAT WAS ASSIGNED IN 2014 WAS 58 MILLION.

IT GREW TO 162 MILLION IN 2022, TOOK MR. SAN'S POINT THIS YEAR UNFINISHED.

IF YOU LOOK AT EVEN THE WORST RECESSION, WHICH WE HADN'T OBVIOUSLY STARTED IN 2008, I PULLED THE FINANCIAL RECORDS FOR TOTAL REVENUES IN 2008, 2009, 2010.

AND THEN THE RECOVERY IN 11, YOU KNOW, WE SAW THE WORST DIP IN REVENUE WAS 2009 OF ABOUT 8.7%.

UM, IN TOTAL REVENUE IT WAS 3.2%.

AGAIN, THE LARGEST DROP BEING THE 8.7 IN INCOME TAX ONLY.

SO I THINK THE QUESTION, AND OBVIOUSLY THE TREASURY POINT WITH MR. SANDIS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ASKING WHY WE'RE EARMARKING SO MUCH, 81.7 MILLIONS GETTING EARMARKED IN THIS NEW BUDGET.

OBVIOUSLY 37 OF IT IS THE FISCAL STABILIZATION, BUT I THINK YOU JUST SAID THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE COULD TAP INTO THESE FUNDS.

WE CANNOT, BUT IF WE APPROPRIATE THEM, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE COULD CHANGE THE ASSIGNMENT.

WELL, I THINK SO WE WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE A BALANCE BUDGET.

SO HOW, I MEAN, WE COULD COME UP WITH A, WITH, UM, AND, AND THE WAY THEY, THEY, THEY NORMALLY DEFINE THAT IS THAT YOU, WE HAVE MONEY IN, IN THE BANK AT THE END OF, AT THE END OF THE YEAR, AND YOU SAY YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA BRING IN THIS MUCH REVENUE, YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA, UH, UH, SPEND THIS MUCH, AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR RESERVES.

BUT IF, UM, IF, IF WE SPENT AT THIS LEVEL AND THEN YOU KNOW MORE, AND WE SPENT THIS MUCH MORE THAN OUR, UM, UH, THE REVENUE WE BROUGHT IN, THEN, THEN YEAH, IT WOULD ALL COME OUT OF ANY OF THAT RESERVES.

NOW, IF WE SPEND, IF WE SPENT MORE, AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE EVER GONNA DO, THIS IS AN ACADEMIC POINT THAT, THAT WE WOULD EVER SPEND MORE THAN, THAN ALL THE RESERVES.

YOU KNOW THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S JUST WHAT THEY MEAN.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BY HAVING A BALANCE, A BALANCED BUDGET.

SO ANYTIME WE SPEND OVER SPEND OVER THAT, EITHER WE HAVE TO HAVE A CURRENT YEAR OF REVENUES OR RESERVES TO, TO COVER ANY OF THESE SPENDING WE DO IN A GIVEN YEAR.

UM, THANK YOU.

I THINK, UM, I THINK WE'LL WALK AWAY FROM THIS AND, AND, AND MAYBE GO BACK TO MS. BUCKLEY.

IS ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF MS. BUCKLEY? YES, MISS MR. JER.

UM, SUNNY SUNNYVALE STREAM RESTORATION.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S AT IN HERE.

UM, AND THE STATUS ON THAT.

UM, SO I'M, SO I IF, WELL, IF YOU GO TO YOUR, IF YOU GO TO THE CAPITAL, THE CAPITAL BOOK, YOU'LL SEE ON PAGE 92 AND THEN 93, ALL OF THE CAPITAL PROJECTS.

SO THE FIRST LIST THERE WOULD BE ANY OF THE NEW, THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE FUNDING IN FISCAL YEAR 24.

BUT THEN IF YOU LOOK ON THE NEXT PAGE ON 93, YOU'LL SEE SOME OF THE ONES THAT HAD PRIOR APPROPRIATIONS.

SO SUNNYVIEW STREAM RESTORATION, WAS IT A PRIOR BUDGET? IT ALREADY HAS ITS FUNDING, UM, BUT IT'S STILL PROBABLY BEING WORKED ON.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M, AND IF YOU'RE ASKING WHERE THE PROJECT IS, AND THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER, BARBARA, WHERE THE MONEY IS, WHERE THE PROJECT IS, IS WE HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW WITH ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT HAS HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT GIVING US ACCESS ACROSS HIS PROPERTY TO DO THE, UH, THE APPROPRIATE WORK.

THERE'S A WHOLE, TH THIS, THE STREAM RUNS IN A SERIES OF BACKYARDS.

UH, AND THIS ONE PROPERTY OWNER HAS A PARTICULAR SERIES OF CONCERNS ABOUT ALLOWING US TO DO SO, AND WE'VE BEEN NEGOTIATING WORKING WITH HIM AT SEVERAL LEVELS TOMORROW.

I WILL BE GOING, UH, TO MEET WITH HIM INDIVIDUALLY ALONG WITH, UH, UH, CINDY MUMBY FROM, UH, FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, AND WE'RE GONNA DO OUR BEST TO HAMMER OUT THE DEAL TO GET HIS FINAL

[02:25:01]

SIGNOFF SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.

THAT'S MY GOAL.

AND AND I UNDERSTAND EVEN IF WE MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE OF THE, SOME KIND OF FISH THAT GO THROUGH THERE, WE ONLY HAVE A SMALL WINDOW THAT'S GOTTA BE IN THE SPRING.

AND, AND THAT'S TRUE NO MATTER WHAT, UH, THAT WE, WE WORK WITHIN THOSE BOUNDARIES OF SCHEDULING AND COMPLETING THE PLANS AND TRY TO TIME THEM SO THAT AS SOON AS WE ARE RELEASED TO ACTUALLY ACTUALLY DO CONSTRUCTION IN THE STREAM, THAT WE CAN GO FORWARD.

SO ONE THING AT A TIME, CAN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL WE GET THE I GOT YOU.

ESSENTIALLY GET THE EASEMENT OR THE RIGHT OF WAY.

WELL, I APPRECIATE THE UPDATE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SURE.

UH, THANK YOU, MS. BUCKLEY.

I THINK, UM, I THINK, I THINK WE'RE GOOD.

OKAY, SO WITH THAT, I THINK WE'LL TURN TO SOLID WASTE.

SOLID WASTE.

UH, SOLID WASTE IS ON OPERATING IS 4 0 9 OH, YEP.

SO YOU'LL HAVE WITHIN, WITHIN SOLID, WITHIN SOLID WASTE.

UM, THERE'LL BE, UH, A A FEW DIFFERENT, UH, UM, A FEW DIFFERENT BUDGETS, BUT THEY'RE ALL RELATED TO, TO SOLID WASTE VERSUS THE ADMINISTRATION AND ENGINEERING BUDGET.

UM, JUST SHY OF 200,000, THAT HAS A DECREASE OF 13, UM, 13,000 600, 606.

UM, AND THEN THE TWO BIG ONES ARE THE, UH, SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT TRANSFER STATION.

THIS IS THE BALTIMORE COUNTY CONTRACT THAT, UM, HAS A BUDGET OF 21.6 MILLION.

THAT'S AN INCREASE OF 6.1 MILLION OVER THE PRIOR YEAR.

THE, UM, OTHER BIG SIGNIFICANT BUDGET IS SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.

THIS IS LARGELY OPERATING THE LANDFILL.

7.2 MILLION IS THE PROPOSED BUDGET THERE, LARGELY FLAT FROM THE PRIOR YEAR, JUST AN INCREASE OF $14,000.

AND THEN FINALLY, UH, SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT POST CLOSURE OF, UH, SIAH $250,000.

UH, THAT'S, THAT'S A DECREASE OF, UH, 15, $15,000 FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

IS THERE A MECHANISM THAT WE CAN PUT IN PLACE TO WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT AS LONG AS IN THE PA AS WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST TO ADJUST THESE FEES? WELL, I THINK THAT, AGAIN, GOES BACK TO THE LEGISLATION.

UM, SO I GUESS, JEFF, IF YOU WILL, MAYBE YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO, UH, THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT WE INTRODUCED LAST NIGHT.

UM, THE, UH, TIPPING FEES.

I KNOW THAT, UM, I, UH, HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MR. MCCORD YESTERDAY AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, AND, UM, ALSO WITH MR. SANDIS ABOUT POSSIBLY ATTACHING AN AMENDMENT TO THAT LEGISLATION THAT WOULD EASE THE STING ON OUR CITIZENS AND STRETCH THAT OUT OVER, UH, MAYBE TWO YEARS AS OPPOSED TO ALL AT ONE TIME.

UH, MR. PENMAN HAD A CONCERN ABOUT THAT AS WELL AS I BELIEVE MR. BENNETT AS WELL.

SO, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THOUGHTS YOU WANT.

I MEAN, YOU'RE DO WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO.

UM, WE, WE SET A, A LEVEL FOR THE, THAT WE THOUGHT WE NEEDED A SET TO MEET OUR OBLIGATIONS TO, TO BALTIMORE COUNTY.

I, I, I THINK AS WE, AS WE DESCRIBED WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, IS THAT, UM, IF THE DECISION IS MADE TO, TO PHASE IT IN OR TO DEFER THE INCREASE, CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDABLE FROM YOUR STANDPOINT OF THE ADMINISTRATION STANDPOINT, THE, THE, THE DEFICIT OR THE SHORTFALL, IF YOU WILL, WILL GO ON A LITTLE LONGER.

IT WON'T BE SORT OF RESET AS, AS QUICKLY AS IT COULD IF IT WAS ALL PUT AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT THAT'S A, AGAIN, FINANCIAL TIMING DECISION ON, UH, ON THE COUNCIL'S PART AND THE ADMINISTRATION'S PART AS TO, UH, WHAT THOSE IMPACT OR, YEAH, I MEAN, FROM A, FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, WE HAVE IN THE REVENUES THAT MAKE UP THE GENERAL FUND, AGAIN, THIS IS A GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURE.

WE HAVE INCLUDED THE, UM, THE, THE FULL AMOUNT OF, OF, OF, OF THE, UM, OF THE TIPPING FEE INCREASE IN, YOU KNOW, IN THAT.

SO ONE OF TWO THINGS WOULD HAPPEN.

UM, SO IF, IF WE, IF WE NOW EXPECT THAT THE NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, AS HIGH AS WHAT WE IS, WHAT WE PROJECTED, YOU KNOW, WE WILL EITHER LEAVE THE REVENUE KIND OF JUST WHERE IT IS, UM, AND THEN KNOWING THAT THAT REVENUE WILL HAVE A SHORTFALL AND WE'LL PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BE OFFSET BY OTHER REVENUES.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF I'M WRONG ON, ON INCOME TAX OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD KIND OF EAT INTO, EAT INTO THAT, UM, EAT INTO THAT POSITIVE BENEFIT, YOU KNOW, OR YOU WOULD ACTUALLY REDUCE THE REVENUE, WHICH WOULD LEAN ONE OF TWO THINGS.

YOU WOULD EITHER THEN HAVE TO INCREASE THE USE OF FUND BALANCE, UM, YEAH.

UM, YOU KNOW, INCREASE THE USE OF FUND BALANCE IN, IN THE BUDGETED DOCUMENT, YOU KNOW, OR FIND OFFSETTING CUTS, UM, TO, UM, TO PAY FOR THAT, TO PAY FOR THAT PHASE IN.

NOW, I THINK IT'S SMALL ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT IN THE, IN THE BIG SCHEME OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PROBABLY ABSORB IT.

[02:30:01]

UM, AND, AND THIS IS A CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH, WITH ALL OF OUR FEES.

UM, YOU KNOW, HOW'S, HOW'S THE BEST WAY TO, TO DO THAT? YOU KNOW, ON ONE HAND YOU COULD JUST PUT AN ESCALATOR INTO IT, LIKE A CPI ESCALATOR.

NOW, WE RAN INTO PROBLEMS WITH THAT, WITH THE WATER AND SEWER FEE YEARS AGO WHEN YOU HAD NO INFLATION.

YOU KNOW, NOW WITH HIGHER INFLATION, YOU MIGHT HAVE, YOU MIGHT THEN GET OTHER CALLS OF, YOU'RE INCREASING IT TOO MUCH.

I WILL SAY THE THESE FEES, UH, ARE BEST, UH, YOU DON'T WANT PENNIES WITH THESE FEES.

YOU WANT STRAIGHT DOLLAR AMOUNTS.

UM, PARTICULARLY WITH THINGS LIKE THE, THE, WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE LANDFILL THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT, YOU DON'T WANT US MAKING CHANGE FOR, YOU KNOW, $11 AND 53 CENTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, IF YOU WERE TO DO ANYTHING, ANY TYPE OF AUTOMATIC ESCALATOR OR THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU WOULD WANT TO, YOU KNOW, ROUND IT TO THE APPROPRIATE.

BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD THEN HAVE TO BE CHANGED IN THE LEGISLATION.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD OTHER LEGISLATIONS THAT HAVE AUTOMATIC ESCALATORS, OR WE AS A COMBINED GOVERNMENT JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT FEES IN AN ONGOING WAY, UM, AS PART OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE ONCE IT'S ONCE ONCE AN ADMINISTRATION, IF YOU WILL.

AND, AND, AND WE'RE JUST LIKE, WE ARE NOW DOING WITH WATER AND SEWER.

WE WE'RE, WE, WE ARE NOW SET WITH, YOU KNOW, EVERY FIVE YEARS, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE ARE BRINGING THAT, THAT FORWARD.

WE COULD DO THAT WITH SOLID WASTE.

YOU COULD DO IT WITH BUILDING, BUILDING PERMITS.

YOU COULD DO IT WITH LOTS OF, LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

UM, AND THAT, AGAIN, WOULD BE A KIND OF A JOINT MANAGEMENT DECISION.

THANKS, COUNSEL.

MS. MOVE, HOW LONG DOES OUR CONTRACT RUN WITH BALTIMORE COUNTY THROUGH 2036.

OH, AND IT HAS TWO.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT THEN.

AND IT HA AND IT HAS TWO 10 YEAR RENEWAL OPTION PERIODS AFTER THAT.

SO WE DON'T EVEN NEED A CONTINGENCY PLAN THEN, DO WE? 2036 IS CLOSER THAN YOU THINK WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE TYPES OF ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

SO ME, UH, WE ARE ALREADY, UH, THINKING IN TERMS OF WHEN WE WILL START EVALUATING ALTERNATIVES, UH, FOR WHAT WE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TO DO IN 2036.

THAT PROCESS PROBABLY START ANOTHER YEAR OR TWO.

ANYONE ELSE? UM, THANKS, JEFF.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

TAKE CAPITAL.

DO WE HAVE CAPITAL? UM, I, THERE THERE'S SOME REAL SMALL ONES FOR SOLID WASTE, FOR CAPITAL.

THAT'S WHY I, I'M SORRY.

BUT IF YOU GO TO PAGE 200, UM, YOU WILL, YOU WILL SEE, UM, IT'S LESS, IT'S $175,000 TOTAL OF CAPITAL BUDGETING FOR, UM, UH, THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES AND PROJECTS, AND THEN THE, UM, LANDFILL COPY.

BUT THEY'RE BOTH RELATIVELY SMALL.

OH, CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION.

, ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? THANKS.

I BEHAVED THAT IT .

SOCHU, WE, WE, WE ARE NOW ON GOING ON.

CONSTRUCTION.

DO WE TALK ABOUT IT? WE DO INSPECTION.

YEAH, I THINK I DID.

YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT THAT IN THE THING.

SO I THINK I INCLUDED IT WITH THE OTHER ONE.

SO I THINK, I THINK WE'RE GO, WE'RE, WE'RE ON TO WATER AND SEWER.

SO WE'LL DO, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR CHANGE AND THE WATER AND SEWER.

AND, AND IN THIS CASE, WE WILL, UM, ADDRESS THE OPERATING COMPONENT, UH, FIRST AND THEN DEAL, DEAL WITH THE CAPITAL.

AND THEN I WOULD FIND IN THIS BOOK, WHERE DO I FIND THIS AGAIN? I FIND THE WATER AND SEWER 4 42.

THERE WE GO.

YEAH, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR WATER AND SEWER, FOR AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, AS, AS AS, UM, AS I'M HERE, I'M JUST GONNA SAY YOU GIVE THE, UH, THE TOTAL NUMBER, UH, FOR WATER AND SEWER OPERATING.

UM, THEY HAVE MANY DIFFERENT SMALLER BUDGETS TO DEAL WITH DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE OPERATION.

UM, AND THEY CAN KIND OF GO THROUGH THOSE.

BUT ON THE, UH, THE TOTAL OPERATING FOR WATER AND SEWER, UM, IT IS, UM, 67, UH, MILLION 323,000.

UM, THAT IS AN INCREASE OF APPROXIMATELY 2.1 MILLION FROM THE, FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

AND WITH THAT, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU, YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SUBSEQUENT INDIVIDUAL BUDGETS THAT MAKE UP THAT CERTAIN SOLID.

I MEAN, I'M STARTING TO CERTAIN, UM, CERTAIN OPERATIONS, YOU KNOW, ADMINISTRATION, ALL OF THAT, THAT STUFF, ENGINEERING, UM, IN THE SUBSEQUENT PAGES, IN BETWEEN THAT, YOU KNOW, 4, 4 42 AND UH, GOES ALL THE WAY TO IT GOES YEAH.

ALL THE WAY TO FOUR.

MR. PENMAN? UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT, MAKE SURE I'M ON THE RIGHT PAGE.

4, 4 74 76.

SO, UM, THANKS ROBBIE.

UH, COUNSEL, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS,

[02:35:03]

4 42 YOU SAID, RIGHT? IS THAT WHERE WE'RE AT? YEAH, THE, THE, THAT, THAT'S THE OVERALL SUMMARY, 4 42.

UM, AND THEN ALL THE SUBSEQUENT PAGES JUST KIND OF MAKE UP THOSE NUMBERS BECAUSE IT'S LIKE ENGINEERING ADMINISTRATION, SOLID, UM, SAY SOLID WASTE.

UM, AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOME, SOME ADDITIONS TO SUPPLIES AND MATERIALS.

1.6, UH, ALTOGETHER, TWO POINT, UM, 2 MILLION, 63,000.

UM, CAN WE DISCUSS WHAT THE INCREASES FOR? YEAH, WE SURE CAN.

BILL, WHICH PARTICULAR LINE LOOKS LIKE SUPPLIES? MATERIALS ADDED TO THE BUDGET WAS ONE POINT, ALMOST 1.7.

UM, AND, AND MOST OF IT IS, IS CHEMICALS.

UM, JUST IS THAT TO INCREASE COST OF CHEMICALS OR FROM THE YEAR BEFORE? CORRECT.

GOOD.

THERE, THEY'RE BROKEN DOWN.

4 45.

YEAH, I HAD A LINE ITEM BREAKDOWN.

UH, A SUMMARY BREAKDOWN IS ON 4 45, AND AS YOU SEE, UM, IT COVERS A, A, A RANGE OF THINGS, BUT THE LARGEST CHANGE, $1.1 MILLION OF THAT TOTAL CHANGE IS FOR CHEMICALS IN BULK.

AND WE'VE JUST SEEN BECAUSE OF SUPPLY ISSUES FROM, UH, INFLATION AND THE RISING COST OF MANY THINGS, UH, WE BUY CHLORINE, WE BUY COAGULANTS, UM, WE BUY OTHER PROCESSED CHEMICALS AND THEY'VE JUST GONE UP, UM, 10, 20, 30% AND MORE IN SOME CASES.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S DRIVING THAT, YOU KNOW, 1.1 MILLION CHANGE JUST IN CHEMICALS.

UM, YOU ALSO SEE DELIVERY CHARGES AT THE TOP, UM, PARTS, THE THREE 21,000 THAT'S, UH, PARTS EQUIPMENT, AND THEN THE SMALL TOOLS AND SUPPLIES 1 25.

YOU SEE THE VARIOUS COMPONENTS OF IT.

WELCOME.

SO BILL, TOO, LET ME, UH, LET ME COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR PRESENTATIONS AT THE BOARD OF ESTIMATES RECENTLY, I THINK YOU WERE THERE AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SECURITY, UH, AND AT THE WATER PLANTS AND, UH, ALL ACROSS THE COUNTY, UH, ALL OF OUR FACILITIES ACROSS THE COUNTY.

I THINK LARRY SLATTERY, WHO IS OUR CHIEF OF OPERATIONS PRESENTED, AND THAT'S REALLY WITHIN HIS BALLYWICK, AND HE TAKES THAT SERIOUSLY, AND I'LL SAY HE'S EVEN BEEN OUT A AHEAD OF OUR FELLOW, UH, MUNICIPAL JURISDICTIONS IN THE REGION, REALLY DOING A GREAT JOB WITH SECURITY.

LINES, AND THAT EVEN INCLUDES PUBLIC OUTREACH ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF NOT FLUSHING FATS, OILS AND GREASES DOWN THE LINES.

UM, ANYONE ELSE? UH, MR. BENNETT, UM, COULD YOU JUST TELL A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY FROM, UH, BUDGET 2022 TO 2023 IN REGARDS TO MISCELLANEOUS AND, AND, UM, JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, SO LIKE YOU'RE SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE WORLD OF WATER AND SEWER, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF DROVE THAT, THAT CHANGE? SO, SO MIS MISCELLANEOUS IS LARGELY ABOUT, UM, JUST CHANGES OF DEPRECIATION.

SO IT JUST THEN HAS TO DO WITH, AS, AS OUR, UH, CAPITAL INVESTMENTS ARE AGING BEING REPLACED, YOU'LL HAVE SOME FLUCTUATION WITHIN THAT DEPRECIATION.

IT'S NON-CASH.

UM, IT'S REALLY JUST KIND OF A, A OF A BOOKKEEPING ENTRY FOR, FOR MOST OF GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTING, WE KIND OF USE STANDARD GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS.

SO WE DON'T DO DEPRECIATION FOR THE GENERAL FUND AND THE LIKE WATER.

AND SO, CAUSE IT IS OPERATED LIKE A BUSINESS, UM, AS I, AS I ALWAYS SAY IS THAT IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT PAYS FOR ITSELF.

UM, WE THEN USE MORE OR LESS KIND OF A, UM, BUSINESS APPROACH TO ACCOUNTING.

UM, SO WE ARE FACTORING IN DEPRECIATION, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A REAL YEAH, IT'S, IT'S THERE, IT'S THERE TO KEEP THE ACCOUNTANTS BUSY.

UM, AND THEN JUST ANOTHER, UH, WATER AND SEWER QUESTION.

UH, UNIQUE THING, LIVING IN THE CITY OF HANEY, GREECE, UH, ESPECIALLY LIVING IN THE ROW HOMES, A LOT OF THOSE HOMES WERE BUILT, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, DUPLEXES, THE TRIPLEXES, THEY WERE BUILT WITH ONE SEWER LINE WHEN ORIGINALLY DESIGNED A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, WHICH IS SOMETHING I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL I BOUGHT ONE HALF OF A DUPLEX AND THE OTHER HALF FLOODED AND MINE'S SLIGHTLY LOWER TO THE GROUND, WHICH MEANS MY FIRST FLOOR BATHROOM FLOODED.

UM, IS THAT, IS THAT KIND OF THING COMMON IN A LOT OF OUR OLDER COMMUNITIES IN HARTFORD COUNTY? ARE WE KIND OF GETTING UP TO DATE ON, ON SEWAGE LINES AND, AND, AND, AND ALL THAT? FOR THE MOST PART ACROSS THE COUNTY? I'LL TRY AND ANSWER QUICKLY.

FIRST OFF, THAT WOULD BE THE CITY OF HARVARD COUNTY.

YEAH, WE GOT THAT ALL.

SO YEAH, THEY RUN THAT UTILITY IN GENERAL, INCLUDING OUR SYSTEM.

UH, BACKUPS CAN'T HAPPEN.

UM, BUT MAINTENANCE PROGRAMS SUCH AS, UH, CLEANING ROOTS FROM LINES, UM, DE-GREASING

[02:40:01]

KEEP THOSE PRIVATE SIDE FROM YOUR HOUSE TO THE MAIN AND THE STREET CLEAR.

SO WE TAKE EFFORTS TO KEEP THAT AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

UM, I MEANT MORE SO LIKE, UH, OLD DESIGN OF SHARING LINES BETWEEN SEPARATE HOMES.

IS, IS THAT KIND OF STUFF GETTING MORE AND MORE UP TO DATE OR, WELL, WELL, CURRENT REGS CODES OR WHATEVER THE STANDARD IS THAT YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE WOULDN'T BE A SHARED, UM, CONNECTION ON THE PRIVATE SIDE.

UH, SO ANYTHING THAT'S BUILT NOW WOULD NOT HAVE THAT.

UM, SO THE OLDER PARTS OF THE COUNTY THAT ARE WITHIN OUR SYSTEM, YES, WE COME ACROSS THAT FROM, UH, PLACE TO PLACE.

THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT.

ANYONE ELSE? UH, BILL, THANK YOU.

OH, I'M SORRY.

DID YOU WANT TO DO THE CAPITAL? YES.

SO IF YOU GO TO THE CAPITOL BOOK, YOU WILL HAVE, YOU WILL SEE THE WATER AND SEWER CAPITAL.

UH, THE WOODWARD PROJECTS BEGIN ON PAGE 3 74 AND THE, UH, SEWER PROJECTS BEGIN ON PAGE, UM, UH, 4 4 0 4 BILL, YOU WANNA GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS THAT YOU'RE, YOU WANNA MAKE COUNSEL BE AWARE OF.

I'D BE GLAD TO, UM, START WITH A QUICK OVERVIEW IF I, IF I MAY.

FOR FISCAL YEAR 24, UH, WE'RE REQUESTING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM APPROPRIATIONS, A TOTAL OF 20.186 MILLION.

AND THIS IS ALL INFORMATION IN THE BOOK THAT INCLUDES 11.9 MILLION FOR WATER PROJECTS.

UH, 4.536 MILLION FOR SEWER PROJECTS, AND THEN 3.75 MILLION FOR MISCELLANEOUS PROJECTS.

UM, FOR REFERENCE, I'LL ADD THAT THIS ALIGNS WELL WITH LAST YEAR'S C I P PROJECTION FOR FISCAL YEAR 24.

WE HAD IT AT 19.725 MILLION, SO PRETTY CLOSE.

UM, THE COST AND NEEDS DO CHANGE OVER TIME.

WE WORK TO DEVELOP AN INFORMED SIX YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.

THOSE ARE THE OUT YEAR ENTRIES YOU SEE, UM, IN THE BOOKS IN FRONT OF YOU.

UH, WALK THROUGH A FEW SELECT PROJECTS.

FIRST ON THE WATER SIDE, UH, PAGE 3 77 IS THE ABINGDON WATER TREATMENT PLANT SWITCH GEAR SLASH GENERATOR UPGRADE.

FOR THIS REQUEST, WE'RE ADDING 1 MILLION IN CONSTRUCTIONS AND FY 24 DUE TO EXPECTED COST INCREASES, UH, FOR A TOTAL CONSTRUCTION COST OF 6 MILLION AND AN OVERALL PROJECT COST OF 6.15 MILLION.

UH, WE HAVE TWO SWITCH GEARS.

WE HAVE TWO SOURCES, ELEC OF ELECTRICAL FEED INTO OUR MAIN WATER TREATMENT PLANT.

UH, BOTH OF THEM ARE AT THE END OF THEIR SERVICE LIFE.

SPARE PARTS ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE.

THIS PROJECT IS TO BUILD ONE NEW INTEGRATED SWITCH GEAR, UH, WHICH ALLOWS US TO BE MORE RESILIENT IF EACH, IF EITHER OF THOSE ELECTRICAL FEEDS GO OUT, OR BOTH THE AUTOMATIC GENERATOR CAN COME ON.

AND AGAIN, SERVICE IS CONTINUOUS AND WATER SUPPLY TO OUR CUSTOMERS IS UNINTERRUPTED.

UM, CONTINUING ON PAGE 3 81, UH, MARYLAND TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, UM, I 95 IMPROVEMENTS, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE ADDING, WE'RE REQUESTING TO ADD 3 MILLION TO CONSTRUCTION, UH, FOR A TOTAL CONSTRUCTION OF 4.2 MILLION AND A TOTAL PROJECT COST OF 4.45 MILLION.

UH, THIS IS TO REDO OUR, I'LL CALL IT REMOTE CONTROL SYSTEM FOR THE WATER TOWERS AND WATER BOOSTER STATIONS.

NOW THIS IS ASSOCIATED WITH MTAS I 95, UH, EXPRESS TRAVEL LANE EXPANSIONS.

THIS IS UNIQUE IN THAT MTA WILL DO THE DESIGN AND THE CONSTRUCTION AND THEN BILL US FOR THE COST OF THAT.

AND, AND WHAT'S AT HAND IS THE ACTUAL, IS THE RELOCATION OF WATER MAINS.

WE HAVE TWO WATER LINES IN TUNNELS THAT CROSS I 95.

THEY'RE GONNA BOTH HAVE TO BE MOVED OR MODIFIED DUE TO THE E TL EXPANSIONS.

ONE CROSSING IS THE VICINITY OF ROUTE 24.

IT'S RIGHT AT THE END OF WOODSDALE ROAD TO RED MAPLE DRIVE.

THAT'S WHERE IT CROSSES I 95.

UM, THE OTHER CROSSING IS IN THE VICINITY OF ABINGDON ROAD, SO THAT'S RIGHT NEXT TO OUR MAIN WATER TREATMENT PLANT.

IT CROSSES I 95 AND, UH, ONE OF THE PIPES WITHIN IT ACTUALLY CONNECT TO THE BIG INCH OR OUR MAIN RAW WATER SUPPLY.

CONTINUE ON ONE MORE ON THE WATER SIDE, IF I MAY.

PAGE 3 84.

THAT'S THE REPLACEMENT OF WATER BOOSTER STATION, UH, SCADA, THAT'S SUPERVISORY CONTROL AND DATA ACQUISITION IS THAT ACRONYM.

UH, WE'RE ADDING $1 MILLION IN CONSTRUCTION DUE TO EXPECTED COST INCREASES.

BRINGS A TOTAL PROJECT TO 2.95 OR THE CONSTRUCTION TO 2.95 MILLION AND A TOTAL PROJECT OF 3.25 MILLION.

[02:45:02]

EACH OF THOSE 12 WATER TANKS WE HAVE ON OUR SYSTEM AND THEIR ASSOCIATED BOOSTER STATIONS, THEY'RE THE END OF THE SERVICE LIFE FOR OUR ABILITY TO REACH OUT, MONITOR AND CONTROL THEM.

THIS IS REPLACING ALL OF THEM WITH A SINGLE INTEGRATED SYSTEM.

AGAIN, IF YOU TOOK THE TOUR OF THE PLANT, THAT'S WHAT ALLOWS THE OPERATORS IN THE CONTROL ROOM TO SEE THE LEVELS OF TANK AND TURN PUMPS ON AND OFF TO PUSH WATER AROUND THE SYSTEM.

AND AGAIN, UH, PROVIDE THAT WATER SUPPLY SERVICE TO OUR CUSTOMERS.

UM, IF I CAN MOVE TO THE SEWER, THERE'S TWO RELATED, WELL, TWO PROJECTS I'LL HIGHLIGHT.

FIRST ON PAGE FOUR 15, THAT'S SOD RUN FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS.

WE'RE REQUESTING TO ADD 3 MILLION IN CONSTRUCTION.

THIS IS TO FUND TWO EFFORTS.

FIRST DIGESTER IMPROVEMENTS AND A PRIMARY CLARIFIER RENOVATION.

UM, FOR THOSE TWO ELEMENTS OF EFFORT, THE DESIGN IS, IS COMPLETE AND WE PLAN TO BID THE CONSTRUCTION FOR THESE, THIS SUMMER RELATED IS THE VERY NEXT PAGE, FOUR 16 SOD RUN ULTRAVIOLET DISINFECTANT PROJECT.

WE'RE ASKING TO ADD 2 MILLION IN CONSTRUCTION AGAIN, DUE TO EXPECTED PRICE INCREASES, UH, TO THAT CONSTRUCTION COST FOR AN OVERALL TOTAL PROJECT PRICE OF 8.7 MILLION.

UM, THIS IS TO CONVERT THAT DISINFECTION STEP ON ITS SOD RUN.

THE FINAL STEP BEFORE WE DISCHARGE OUR, OUR TREATED CLEANED WATER TO THE BUSH RIVER IS DISINFECTION STEP.

GO AHEAD.

OH, JUST, SO ONCE WE DO THAT, WE'RE NOT GONNA USE CHLORINE ANYMORE.

SO HOW MUCH DO WE SAVE BY, UH, BY DOING THIS AND NOT PAYING FOR CHLORINE? BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE ELECTRICITY TO GEN TO, TO F TO POWER THE ULTRAVIOLET BULBS.

SO YES, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING OUT OF THE CHLORINE BUSINESS, WHICH IS GREAT FOR, FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, FOR SAFETY.

UH, WE'RE, WE'RE NO LONGER TIED TO THE INCREASING COST OF CHLORINE, BUT WE'LL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE POWER TO RUN THOSE UV LAMPS.

SO JUST ON A COST OVER COST, IT'S ABOUT EQUIVALENT.

WE'RE NOT SAVING A GREAT DEAL IN THE SUPPLY COST.

BUT AS CHLORINE GOES UP, OUR SAVINGS GET MORE AND MORE.

SO IT'S HARD TO PREDICT THAT, BUT IT'S AN EASIER OPERATIONAL, THE OPERATIONAL EXPENSES AND THE MAINTENANCE WILL GO DOWN.

SO, SO YES, WE'LL BE OUT OF THE CHLORINE BUSINESS.

UM, THAT FINAL DISINFECTION STEP IS WITH UV.

AGAIN, THAT DESIGN IS COMPLETE TO MOVE TO CONSTRUCTION THIS SUMMER.

WE'RE GONNA ACTUALLY LUMP ALL THREE OF THOSE CONSTRUCTION EFFORTS TOGETHER AND BID THEM UNDER ONE PACKAGE FOR EFFICIENCY OF CONSTRUCTING AND MANAGING.

WE'VE PRE-QUALIFIED FOR FIRMS, AND AGAIN, WE EXPECT TO PUT THE REQUEST FOR COMPETITIVE BID OUT THIS SUMMER.

THOSE ARE THE PROJECTS I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT.

I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THE CAPITAL PROGRAM THAT YOU WOULD LIKE.

ANYONE.

MS. MOON, M D T A MADE THE DECISION TO PUT THE ETL LANES IN INCREASING THE WIDTH OF I 95 SUBSTANTIALLY RATHER THAN JUST ADDING LANES THAT IMPACTED OUR WATER LINE.

, WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR PLAN? THAT THAT IS AN, AN ISSUE THAT FALLS UNDER THE, THE CONCEPT OF PRIOR RIGHTS.

THEY ARE WORKING WITHIN THEIR OWN RIGHT OF WAY.

WE HAVE OUR LINES IN THEIR RIGHT OF WAY AT WITH PERMISSION FROM THEM.

POP OR PING AS THERE'S ANY KIND OF DAMAGE OR DISRUPTION IS ONE OF THE FIRST INDICATORS OF A POTENTIAL BREAK IN A BIG CONCRETE CYLINDER LINE LIKE THAT.

I DIDN'T, IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND AND OUR LINES WERE IN THERE BEFORE THEY BILL I 95 IN 1960, WHATEVER, THE REVERSE WOULD BE TRUE.

THE, THEY WOULD THEN BE OBLIGATED.

WE WOULD HAVE THEIR PRIOR RIGHTS.

WE WERE THERE FIRST.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO THEN ACCOMMODATE OUR LINES.

UM, WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE BIG INCH, THE WATER THAT, UM, THAT GOES, UM, UP FROM CECIL COUNTY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO BALTIMORE CITY.

WHERE ARE WE ON THAT BEING COMPROMISED AND WHAT ARE WE DOING TO ENSURE THAT THAT WILL BE STABLE FOR FUTURES TO COME? HOLY S**T.

IT'S NOT COMPROMISED TODAY.

AND BECAUSE OF ALL THE WORK GOING CLOSE TO IT, UM, THERE ARE PROGRAMS AND MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO MONITOR THAT, TO MAKE SURE THE CONSTRUCTION DOES NOT DISRUPT IT.

UM, THERE'S ACCU ACOUSTIC MONITORING IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS, UM, THAT STRESSED CONCRETE HAS STEEL FIBERS IN IT, AND THEY ACTUALLY PUT MONITORS, YOU'LL HEAR THEM

[02:50:01]

NUMBER ONE.

UM, THE CITY OF BALTIMORE IS STILL IN THE PLANNING PHASES, UH, TO DO, UH, UH, AN ASSESSMENT, A CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF THAT LINE.

AND WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM, BUT BECAUSE IT'S THEIR ASSET, UM, THEY GRACIOUSLY ALLOW US TO BE TECHNICAL CONTRIBUTORS AND WE'RE VERY INTERESTED, BUT IT'S THEIR PROJECT.

UM, AND IT WILL BE TO, TO ADD SOME APP OCCURRENCES SO THEY CAN FIRST ACCESS THE BIG INCH, BUT THEN IT'S GONNA BE SOME METHOD OF INSPECTING FROM THE INSIDE TO ASCERTAIN THE CONDITION AND MAKE ANY REQUIRED, UM, UPGRADES OR IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT.

SO WE'RE NOT FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE AT THIS POINT FOR THE, FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS AND THAT ASSESSMENT WE ARE, AND THAT'S IN OUR AGREEMENT.

THERE'S A DETAILED CALCULATION, ESSENTIALLY, BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF FLOW THAT WE USE OUT OF THE TOTAL CAPACITY.

YES, WE WOULD BE ON THE HOOK, SO TO SPEAK, UH, FOR OUR FRACTIONAL SHARE OF, OF THAT EITHER THE INSPECTION OR THE IMPROVEMENTS.

AND THAT FRACTION IS RELATIVELY LOW, UH, COMPARED TO THE OVERALL CAPACITY OF THAT PIPE THAT WAS, AS YOU SAID, DESIGNED TO TAKE WATER FROM THE SUSQUEHANNA TO THE CITY.

WE'RE TAKING A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH SMALLER PART OF THAT BACK TO US, BUT, BUT IT IS A CALCULATION.

IT IS PART OF OUR WRITTEN AGREEMENT WITH BALTIMORE CITY.

SO WE, WE KNOW THAT THAT'S OUT THERE FOR US TO ADDRESS.

MR. TIPS ON YOUR PLAN SWITCH GEAR.

DO YOU HAVE THAT ON ORDER ON THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER, UH, MAJOR ELECTRICAL AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR SUPPLIERS TO SUPPLY BIG EQUIPMENT IN THAT A THROUGH IT.

AND I JUST WONDERED IF YOU HAVE THAT OR HOW IS THAT FIGURING INTO YOUR PROJECT? IT'S NOT ON ORDER YET.

WE ARE CONCLUDING THE DESIGN AND ONLY ONCE WE MOVE TO CONSTRUCTION WOULD THEN A CONTRACTED FIRM PLACE THAT ON ORDER.

BUT I THINK EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING IS WHY WE'VE ASKED FOR AN INCREASE IN THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS.

OUR EARLY FEEDBACK AND INDICATORS ARE IT'S GONNA COST MORE THAN WE THOUGHT EVEN A YEAR AGO.

EXACTLY.

AND, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE YOU LONGER TO GET IT THAN WHAT YOU HAVE ANTICIPATED, I'M AFRAID.

SO THANK YOU, MR. TIP.

ANYONE ELSE? UM, THIS WILL PRETTY WELL, I THINK, CONCLUDE OUR AF OUR MORNING EVENT.

MR. SEK, IF YOU WOULD SEE MR. GUTHRIE TO HIS REQUEST ABOUT SETTING UP A MEETING MEETING, THAT WOULD BE GREAT, CHRIS.

WE'LL MAKE THAT ARRANGEMENT TO ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL SEE YOU AFTER LUNCH.

MY TIME IS LUNCH IN TOO.

HEY, .

HE SAID, NO, I'M NOT HERE.

YES, I WILL.

WELL, YOU GOING? WHERE YOU GOING? JIMMY? I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING BACK FOR THE AFTERNOON'S WORK SESSIONS.

UH, WE'RE GONNA START WITH, UH, MR. SANDIS AND TREASURY.

NOT THAT WE HAVEN'T HEARD ENOUGH FROM MR. SANDIS ALREADY.

WE JUST DECIDED TO JUST GO BACK TO, UM, EVERYBODY HAS AN ACTUAL PIN, SO THERE'S NO REAL CHANGE THERE.

SO, UH, UM, SO I WILL INTRODUCE MYSELF HERE, AND TREASURY IS IN, IS ON PAGES, UM, UH, 1 78, UH, THROUGH 1 94.

SO 1 78.

IT'LL SEE THAT THE, UM, OVERALL COMBINED BUDGET, THE OFFICE TREASURY IS 5,000,098.

THAT IS A DECREASE OF 527 $1,000.

UM, MOST OF THAT DECREASE IS DUE TO, UH, JUST TURNOVER, THE 27TH PAY, UM, HOUR, BUDGETING, UM, UH, HEALTH INSURANCE THINGS, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.

UM, YOU WILL SEE IN MY BUDGET THAT IT IS SPLIT, UH, BETWEEN FUNDING SOURCES.

THE OFFICE OF TREASURER, UH, BUREAU ACCOUNTING REVENUE COLLECTIONS ARE GENERAL FUND OPERATIONS.

UH, BUT OUR, UH, INDIVIDUALS WHO DO THE WATER AND STORE BILLING ARE PAID FOR OUT OF THE, UH, WATER AND STORE FUND.

SO THEY'RE PAID FOR BY THE OF THE SYSTEM.

UH, ONE THING TO NOTE, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS, IS YOU WILL SEE THE, UM, CHANGE IN POSITIONS, UH, 40 43 VERSUS WHAT WAS BUDGETED LAST YEAR.

41.

THERE'S NO ACTUAL CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF POSITIONS.

I HAD 43, UM, INDIVIDUALS LAST YEAR, TWO YEARS AGO.

THERE WAS A, UM, A DECISION STRATEGY, IF YOU WILL, TO TRY TO BRING SOME EMPLOYEES, UM, INTO ENTRY LEVEL JOBS AS TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES, UM, TO KIND OF ENABLE US TO HAVE A, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A PROBATIONARY PERIOD OR, OR, UH, MORE FLEXIBILITY AS FAR AS MAKING THE COMMITMENT, UH, UH, TO, TO THOSE EMPLOYEES.

IT STARTED TO CREATE, UM, A LOT OF ISSUES AND, AND WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION,

[02:55:01]

AND I THINK THIS IS MORE IN LINE WITH, UM, UH, THE COUNTY AUDITOR'S RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, AND HOW EVERY, ALL THE OTHER AGENCIES ARE BUDGETED.

UH, JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK HIGHLIGHTS.

I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT I'M NOT SPEAKING PROPERLY INTO THESE MICROPHONES.

UM, A FEW BIG THINGS.

OBVIOUSLY WE DID MAINTAIN OUR AAA BOND RATING THIS YEAR.

WE HAD ANOTHER SUCCESSFUL BOND, UM, UH, BOND SALE.

WE HAVE, UM, IMPLEMENTED A NEW WATER AND SEWER BILLING SYSTEM, UM, IN THE COUNTY.

SO THERE'S GONNA GIVE US A LOT OF, UM, BOTH US AND OUR CUSTOMER BASE.

UM, A LOT OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANTAGES.

PRIOR TO THAT, WE WERE ON A MAINFRAME SYSTEM THAT WAS DONATED TO US FROM BALTIMORE CITY.

UM, IT ACTUALLY DID WORK WELL.

I MEAN, UNLIKE THE, THE CURRENT SYSTEM IN BALTIMORE CITY, WHICH HAS HAD SOME ISSUES, BUT, UM, IT WAS A MAINFRAME GREEN SCREEN.

UH, YOU REALLY COULDN'T INTERFACE WITH IT FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD.

AND SO THIS WILL GIVE, UH, BOTH TREASURY AND, AND THE CUSTOMERS, UM, FAR GREATER, UM, UH, INSIGHT INTO THEIR WATER AND SORE USAGE ABILITY TO PAY THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.

UH, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS NOW OF WORKING WITH OUR, UM, HUMAN RESOURCES AND I C T TO, UM, UPGRADE THE PAYROLL SYSTEM AS PART OF AN OVERALL UPGRADE TO THE HR SYSTEM COURSE.

UM, PAYROLL IS KIND OF THE IN BETWEEN AREA BETWEEN TREASURY, WHICH IS A TREASURY, PAYROLL IS A TREASURY FUNCTION, UM, AND THE HUMAN RESOURCE SYSTEM.

SO WE ARE LOOKING AT UPGRADING, UH, UH, THOSE SYSTEMS. AND ONE FINAL THING, UH, TO NOTE IS, UH, WE JUST CLOSED THE APPLICATION PERIOD FOR THE, UH, SENIOR AND VETERANS TAX CREDIT.

UH, YOU MAY RECALL THE, UH, PRIOR COUNCIL EXPANDED THE ELIGIBILITY OF THAT CREDIT.

UM, WE CHANGED IT FROM HAVING TO LIVE IN A HOUSE, UH, FOR 40 YEARS TO 35 YEARS.

UH, WE ALSO INCREASED THE CAPITAL IN THE ASSESSMENT FROM 400,000 TO 600,000.

AND MOST NOTABLY, UH, WE OPENED IT UP TO INDIVIDUALS WITH, UM, UH, UH, SERVICE RELATED DISABILITIES.

SO DISABLED, UM, UH, DISABLED, DISABLED VETERANS.

UM, AND FURTHERMORE FOR ALL OF THEM, WE EXTEND THE LENGTH OF THE CREDIT.

UM, FROM FIVE YEARS TO 20 YEARS.

WE WERE, UM, AS WE ENTERED INTO OUR SIXTH YEAR, WE WERE GONNA HAVE QUITE A FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO APPLIED IN, IN THE FIRST YEAR THAT WOULD HAVE, UM, TERMED OUT, IF YOU WILL.

SO NOW THIS, THIS ALLOWS THEM SO LONG AS NOTHING CHANGES, UH, TO CONTINUE RECEIVING THE TAX CREDIT.

UM, UH, PROBABLY WELL, WELL INTO THE FUTURE.

UM, SO WE WENT FROM ABOUT 30, 35, 37 50 APP, UM, APPLICANTS TO ABOUT, UH, 5,000.

I DO THINK THAT THAT NUMBER WILL CONTINUE TO GROW.

WE DEFINITELY DIDN'T SEE AS MANY, UM, OF THE DISABLED VETERANS AS, AS, UH, WE THOUGHT THERE MAY BE OUT THERE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT OVER TIME WE'LL PROBABLY SEE THAT NUMBER GROW.

UM, OF COURSE THAT IS A TAX CREDIT, SO TO THE EXTENT THAT IT DOES GROW, IT DOES, UM, RE REDUCE OUR PROPERTY TAX REVENUE COLLECTION.

UM, AND WITH THAT, UM, I'LL OPEN IT UP TO, UH, QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU, ROBBIE.

UM, THE TAX CREDIT THAT WE EXTENDED TO DISABLED VETERANS, HOW MANY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF IT? IT, I CAN GET YOU THOSE NUMBERS.

IT WASN'T A, IT WASN'T A LOT.

IT WAS A, IT WAS AROUND, IT WAS AROUND 50, UM, OR SO.

UM, NOW I KNOW I'VE SOMETIMES HANG OUT AT THE VFW IN CAVITY GRACE AND I SIGNED UP, UH, QUITE A FEW VETS, UM, THERE DURING ONE HAPPY HOUR.

UM, BUT, UM, SO, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL SEE IF I GET BACK THERE, UH, UH, DURING NEXT YEAR SIGN UP PERIOD, , BUT NO IDEA OF THE DOLLAR FIGURE THAT, SO WHAT WE'LL DO IS ONCE WE GET THE ACTUAL ASSESSMENT VALUE, CUZ IT'S A 20% TAX CREDIT, UM, THAT IS APPLIED, UM, UH, UH, TO THEIR COUNTY PROPERTY TAXES.

UM, SO WE NEED TO GET THAT TAPE FROM THE STATE.

UM, BUT IN THE PAST IT WAS AROUND $2 MILLION OR SO, SO WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT SOMETHING AROUND THREE, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET A, UM, A HARD NUMBER ONCE WE ACTUALLY SEND OUT THE BILLS IN JULY.

5 CENT TAX, UM, THAT 5 CENT TAX, UM, UH, BREAK.

THANK YOU COUNSEL.

MR. PENMAN.

UM, THANK YOU MR. SAND.

I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN HERE SINCE YESTERDAY.

UH, WE'VE DISCUSSED A LOT ON THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT AND PROJECTIONS, UH, AND I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT.

BUT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE TAX CREDIT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, UH, AND THE 5 CENT REDUCTION, UH, THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR.

UM, AND IN CORRELATION WITH THE REASSESSMENTS, CAN YOU WALK THROUGH KIND OF HOW THE REASSESSMENTS BY THE STATE ARE GONNA WORK DIFFERENT AREAS AND WHAT THOSE PROJECTIONS MIGHT BE? CUZ EVEN WITH THE 5 CENT REDUCTION AND EVEN WITH THE TAX CREDIT, I THINK WE'RE STILL GONNA BE IN GOOD SHAPE AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE BRINGING IN ON PROPERTY TAXES IN THE COUNTY.

WOULD THAT BE CORRECT ON THAT? UM, YEAH.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, WHAT WE EXPECT TO BRING IN NEXT YEAR FOR, UM, FOR, IN THE GENERAL FUND, FOR PROPERTY TAX CREDIT, UH, I'M, I'M SORRY, FOR THE, FOR THE, THE, FOR PROPERTY TAXES, AND THIS IS ALL PROPERTY TAXES, LESS ALL CREDITS, UM, ALL OF THAT, UM, IT IS JUST A LITTLE BIT OVER 295 MILLION.

UM, THERE'S ALSO A PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT IN THE HIGHWAYS FUND, BUT, UM, I'M JUST GONNA KEEP THIS TO THE GENERAL FUND.

UM, THAT IS MORE OR LESS EQUIVALENT TO WHAT WE COLLECTED IN 2022.

SO 2022 WAS BEFORE, UM, THAT

[03:00:01]

SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS YOU, YOU HAD A REDUCTION IN THE RATE, UM, BUT YOU'RE ALSO HAVING RISING ASSESSMENTS.

SO IT, IT MORE OR LESS PUTS YOU BACK AS TO WHERE WE WERE TWO, TWO YEARS AGO.

UM, NOW OF COURSE THE ARGUMENT COULD BE IS THAT IF WITHOUT THAT TAX, WITHOUT THAT EX CUT, THEN YOU WOULD'VE BEEN PROBABLY APPROXIMATELY 20 MILLION, UM, HIGHER.

UM, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE WAY THE, THE, OUR PROPERTY TAXES WORK IS THE STATE PROVIDES ASSESSMENTS.

THE STATE DOES ASSESSMENTS, UM, ON A ROTATING BASIS.

UM, THE, THE COUNTY IS SPLIT INTO THREE AREAS.

ALL COUNTIES IN MARYLAND ARE SPLIT INTO THREE AREAS.

THE STATE DOES THE ASSESSMENTS FOR, FOR, FOR EVERYONE.

SO THIS MOST RECENT ONE WAS THE BELLAIRE AREA.

IT HAD A 16% INCREASE.

THAT PHASE THAT WILL BE PHASED IN OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

SO ROUGHLY 5%, 5%, THEN 10%, THEN 15%, 16%.

UM, AND SO THAT, THAT'S, AND THEN OFF OF THAT ASSESSMENT BASE, YOU APPLY THE, THE PROPERTY TAX RATE.

SO OUR PROPERTY TAX RATE'S AROUND 84 CENTS FOR THE GENERAL FUND.

YOU WOULD TAKE THE, YOUR ASSESSMENT OF YOUR, OF YOUR PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S, IF IT'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND, YOU WOULD DIVIDE IT BY A HUNDRED, YOU KNOW, A A THOUSAND, AND THEN YOU WOULD THEN MULTIPLY IT THROUGH BY THE, UH, BY THE TAX RATE.

UM, IN ORDER TO GET WHAT WE WOULD, WE WOULD GENERATE.

UM, SO BACK TO YOUR ANSWER, YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, UM, YES, YOU KNOW, OUR RISING ASSESSMENTS, UM, HAVE, UM, MORE OR LESS, UH, CAUGHT UP WITH THE, THE, THE TAX CUT, UM, ON AN ACTUAL BASIS.

SO THE, YOU TALK ABOUT THE THREE PHASES AND YOU TALK ABOUT BELL AIR, I THINK FOUR STILL OR FALSE, AND WAS IT COMBINED THERE? UM, WHERE ARE WE ON THAT SCHEDULE? HOW MANY'S BEEN DONE? UM, AS, SO THIS IS THE SECOND TIME IT'S BEEN DONE? NO, IT HAPPENS EVERY YEAR.

SO, UM, LAST YEAR WAS, UM, UH, WAS, WAS, WAS GROUP ONE, WHICH IS THE NORTHERN PART OF THE COUNTY.

UM, AND THEN, UH, NEXT YEAR WILL BE THE KIND OF THE, UM, ABERDEEN, EDGEWOOD, UM, ABINGDON AREA.

UM, AND THEN, SO IT'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, EVERY THREE YEARS.

SO BELL AIR WILL BE RECI, UM, REASSESSED THREE YEARS FROM NOW.

UM, YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR WILL BE LARGELY THE ROUTE 40 CORRIDOR, YOU KNOW, THEN THREE YEARS LATER THAT WILL BE REASSESSED.

SO IT'S, IT'S A KIND OF A CONSTANT PROCESS.

AND IT'S LARGELY BACKWARDS LOOKING.

I MEAN, THE STATE IS LOOKING AT, UM, HOME SALES, UH, COMPARABLES, UM, ALL THAT TO TO TO ASSESS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY THINK, YOU KNOW, EACH INDIVIDUAL, UM, PIECE OF PROPERTY IS, IS, UM, SHOULD BE ASSESSED AT.

AND THEY TRY TO GET IT CLOSE TO MARKET VALUE.

UH, BUT AGAIN, IT'S LARGELY BACKWARDS LOOKING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'RE ALWAYS, ALWAYS OPPORTUNITIES THAT IF INDIVIDUALS FEEL THAT THEY WERE ASSESSED INCORRECTLY, UM, WELL, NO ONE EVER GOES AND SAYS, I WAS UNDER ASSESSED.

YOU ONLY GO IF YOU THINK YOU WERE OVER ASSESSED .

UM, BUT IF YOU THINK YOU WERE OVER ASSESSED, THERE IS AN APPEALS PROCESS YOU CAN GO THROUGH WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF ASSESSMENTS, APPEALS ACTION, UM, OF TAXATION, UM, THAT ULTIMATELY, EVENTUALLY ENDS UP IN TAX COURT.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S VARIOUS, UM, UM, PATHS THAT YOU CAN GO THROUGH AND STEPS THAT YOU CAN GO THROUGH, UM, IF YOU NEED, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE INCORRECTLY ASSESSED.

DO WE HAVE, UH, PRELIMINARY PROJECTIONS ON WHAT NEXT YEAR'S GONNA BE ON THE LOWER ROUND OF THE COUNTY? UM, NOT SO MUCH.

NO, WE DON'T.

SO, UM, BUT IF WE KIND OF LOOK AT WHAT, YOU KNOW, IF THIS YEAR WAS UP AROUND, WAS UP AROUND 16%, WHICH EQUATES TO AROUND 5% A YEAR, UM, I WOULD EXPECT IT TO, TO TRACK ALONG WITH IT.

I MEAN, WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW, WE'RE SEEING SOME WEIRD THINGS IN THE HOUSING MARKET, UH, BECAUSE OUR, UM, WITH RISING INTEREST RATES, THE NUMBER OF SALES HAS REALLY, HAS REALLY, UM, UH, SLOWED DOWN CONSIDERABLY.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE VALUES ARE HOLDING TIGHT.

UM, SO WE HAVEN'T SEEN A DIP IN VALUES.

UM, AND SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT IN THOSE AREAS THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY SEE SOMETHING COMPARABLE.

SO YOU THEN, AND THAT'S, THAT'S, BUT IT'S JUST AN ASSUMPTION.

WE DO NOT, THE, THE STATE DOESN'T REALLY PROVIDE ANY, ANY, UM, UH, FORWARD LOOKING, UM, ESTIMATE.

SO VALUES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE MARKET VALUES, NOT, NOT THE, THE VALUES THAT THE STATE IS GONNA IMPLEMENT ON, UM, THE REAL ESTATE, THAT THE REAL ESTATE VALUE.

SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MARKET VALUE, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WHAT WE TAX ON IS THE ASSESSED VALUE AS PROVIDED BY THE STATE, RIGHT? SO THE ASSESSED VALUE'S NOT GONNA CHANGE BASED ON MARKET CONDITIONS OF THE SALE OF A HOUSE.

CORRECT? IT'S KIND OF BACKWARDS LOOKING.

SO THEY TRY TO GET, THEY, IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE BACKWARDS LOOKING.

UM, AND PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU HAVE VERY VOLATILE, UH, REAL ESTATE MARKETS BOOMS AND BUST, YOU DO GET, UM, UH, YOU ACTUALLY, YOU A LOT OF TIMES, IF, IF YOU, IF YOU'RE IN A BUST ENVIRONMENT, YOU DEFINITELY GET A LOT OF APPEALS.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED BACK IN 2008.

PEOPLE WERE ASSESSED HIGHER AND THEY'RE LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.

RIGHT? AND THEY, THEY STARTED RE UM, APPEALING THOSE.

BUT THIS NEW ASSESSMENT IS, IS BELL AIR FORCE HILL FALLSTON? YES.

WHICH ARE, WHICH WE KNOW WENT UP 16%, BUT THAT'S NOT

[03:05:01]

CALCULATED IN ANY OF THESE NUMBERS HERE.

WELL, NO, THAT'S CALCULATED IN OUR BUDGET, IN OUR, IN OUR BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR.

SO WHAT, WHAT IN, IN, SO MY QUESTION IS THIS, THIS THAT I'M LOOKING AT LAST YEAR THAT OUR PROPERTY TAXES WERE 336 MILLION.

THAT'S INCLUDES A COMMERCIAL.

SO YEAH, THAT, THAT WOULD BE, UM, AND I'D HAVE TO SEE, AND I THINK THE NUMBER YOU'RE LOOKING AT THERE PROBABLY INCLUDES WHAT'S IN THE, WHAT'S IN THE HIGHWAYS, UM, YES, PROBABLY IT JUST SAYS PROPERTY TAXES.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

SO I, I SEE THAT.

SO YES.

SO THAT WOULD BE, AND THEN, UM, YES, THAT WOULD BE WHAT'S IN THE, WHAT'S IN THE HIGHWAYS AND ALSO COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL.

UM, AND I'D HAVE TO SEE THE EXACT EXACT NUMBER ON WHETHER OR NOT THAT INCLUDES, UM, UH, YOU ALSO HAVE PERSONAL PROPERTY, UM, SO BUSINESS, PROPERTY, THINGS ALONG THOSE, THOSE LINES.

THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY VOLATILE, YOU KNOW, PORTION OF IT.

BUT REAL PROPERTY, WHICH IS THE OVERWHELMING, UH, PROPERTY TAX IS YES, THAT WOULD INCLUDE AG PROPERTIES THAT WOULD INCLUDE, UH, A RESIDENTIAL, UM, COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD NOT INCLUDE ANYTHING THAT'S EXEMPT.

SO IT WAS A GOVERNMENT BUILDING OR A CHURCH OR THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD NOT BE INCLUDED.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS OUR ACTUAL WAS 336 PARDON.

BUT OUR BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR MOVING FORWARD WITH THE INCREASE IN THAT, THAT AREA, BUT AS COUNCILMAN PENMAN SAID, THE DECREASE OF 5%, UH, 5 CENTS FOR THE PROPERTY TAX, THAT WE'RE GONNA BE LESS, WE'RE GONNA COLLECT LESS THAN WE DID LAST YEAR, EVEN WITH THAT 16% INCREASE FOR THE BELL AIR FORCE STILL AND FALSE SCENARIO.

SO, AND, AND THIS IS, THIS IS ONE OF THE, SO WITHIN THOSE, THOSE FINANCIALS, I THINK THAT'S INCLUDING THE, THE, UM, UH, THE, THE HIGHWAYS FUND.

SO, AND I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER IN FRONT OF YOU.

WHAT I CAN SAY IS IF JUST ON THE GENERAL, ON THE GENERAL FUND, WHAT WE COLLECTED IN FISCAL YEAR 22 NET OF ALL CREDITS AND ALL THAT, FOR ALL TYPES OF, OF PROPERTY TAX THAT HIT THE GENERAL FUND, THE, THE, THE FUND THAT WE FUND, THE, THE SCHOOLS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AND, UM, ALL THE OPERATIONS OUT OF WAS JUST SHY OF 295,000 THIS YEAR, WE EXPECT, UM, UH, PROPERTY TAX BECAUSE OF, LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE 5 CENT, UM, REDUCTION TO BE 2 86 0.5.

NEXT YEAR WE EXPECT IT TO BE 2 95 0.3.

SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT OUR, OUR PROPERTY TAX IN THIS UPCOMING YEAR, AS OF JULY ONE, WILL BE EQUIVALENT TO WHAT IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO, MORE THAN WHAT IT IS THIS YEAR, AND EQUIVALENT TO WHERE IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO.

BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENING IS ASSESSMENTS ARE RISING, WE CUT THE RATE ASSESSMENTS CONTINUE TO RISE.

SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE, UH, UM, BUT AGAIN, THE, HAD YOU NOT CHANGED THE RATE THAN, THAN THE, THE PROPERTY TAXES WOULD'VE BEEN THAT MUCH HIGHER.

OKAY? SO LET'S GO NOW TO THE INCOME TAX, UM, WHERE LAST YEAR ACTUAL WAS 298 MILLION, AND THIS YEAR YOU'RE ONLY BUDGETING 299 MILLION.

SO, SO, OKAY.

IN, IN INCOME, IN INCOME TAX ARE, UM, WHAT, WHAT WE ACTUALLY, WHAT WE ACTUALLY COLLECTED IN INCOME TAX LAST LAST YEAR WAS 298.8 MILLION, RIGHT? WE EXPECT, WE EXPECT TO BRING IN 310.3 MILLION THIS YEAR, FISCAL YEAR'S 23.

SO THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I HAVE IN MY BUDGET.

UH, I'D HAVE TO SEE WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU HAVE.

I HAVE 299,000,700, I THINK THAT'S 200, 770 5,000.

SO THAT WAS, SO YES, WE BUDGETED THAT LAST YEAR, BUT WE'RE COMING IN HIGHER THAN WHAT WE BUDGETED LAST YEAR.

SO LAST YEAR WE, THIS YEAR WE BUDGETED 2 99, BUT WE CAME IN AT 2 98.

NO, WE BUDGETED 2 99 FOR FISCAL YEAR 23 AT 300.

WE ARE COMING TO COME IN AT THREE 10.

3 10, 3 10.

IT'S AT THE END OF THIS YEAR, RIGHT? YES.

THREE 10 THIS CURRENT YEAR.

SO ON TOP OF THAT 310, WHAT ARE WE EXPECTING THIS YEAR, COMING FORWARD? SO THIS YEAR COMING FORWARD, AND THIS WAS LARGELY A DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD WITH THE SPENDING AFFORDABILITY COMMITTEE, UM, AND THEN LOOKING AROUND AT WHAT THE OTHER COUNTIES WERE DOING IN THE STATE.

UM, WE HAVE IT GOING TO THREE 11, SO OKAY.

PRETTY MUCH FLAT.

SO WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR NUMBERS FROM? SO THE, I MEAN, THE ACTUALS ARE WHATEVER WE ACTUALLY COLLECT.

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR PROJECTIONS FROM? THE PROJECTIONS WE WORK WITH, UM, WE WORK WITH, UH, THE STATE TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE PROJECTING.

THEY SAY, OKAY, THE PREVIOUS YEAR, HARTFORD COUNTY GOT 4% OF THE INCOME TAX.

WE, WE WORK WITH, UM, OUR SPENDING AFFORDABILITY COMMITTEE.

UH, DO YOU WORK WITH ANY PAYROLL COMPANIES TO ASK WHERE THEY'RE AT, LIKE FIRST QUARTER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? HOW MUCH THEY'RE COLLECTING? THE, THE CHALLENGE, THE CHALLENGE IS, I MEAN, THE STATE'S DOING THAT.

SO A LOT OF TIMES WE'RE KIND OF PIGGYBACKING A LITTLE BIT ONTO THE STATES ON, ONTO THE, UM, ONTO THE STATE'S NUMBER.

THE CHALLENGE WITH INCOME TAX IS ALL THE MONEY COMES IN MM-HMM.

TO THE STATE.

UM, AND, AND KIND OF LIKE ONE BIG, UH, UM, ONE BIG PILE IF, IF YOU WILL, UM, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UM, HARTFORD COUNTY, HOWARD COUNTY, ALLEGHENY, ALL THE, ALL THE COUNTIES.

AND THEN WHAT THE STATE ATTEMPTS TO DO IS

[03:10:01]

SO WE ARE GOING TO GIVE HARTFORD COUNTY ON A QUARTERLY DISTRIBUTION SCHEDULE, 4% OF ALL THE LOCAL MONIES THAT COME INTO MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

THEY, THEY SAY 25%.

FOR US IT'S 4%.

YOU KNOW, WHAT IF CECIL, IT'S 1%.

UM, AND ALL THAT MONEY FROM AROUND THE STATE'S COMING IN.

AND SO IT'S WAGES, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT EASY FOR THE STATE TO PROJECT, AND IT'S ALSO ESTIMATED PAYMENTS.

UM, AND WHICH IS, WHICH IS CAPITAL GAINS SUFFERING BUSINESSES, ALL OF THAT PASS THROUGH MONEY.

THAT'S A LOT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO, BUT IT'S ALL KIND OF COMING IN TOGETHER.

SO THEY'RE SENDING US THESE DISTRIBUTIONS, THEN THEY ARE ALSO, AFTER THE TAX YEAR IS OVER, THEY KIND OF GO BACK AND THEN THEY SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, OKAY, HARTFORD, THIS WAS WHAT WE ACTUALLY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU, BUT THEY'RE NOT.

BUT SINCE THEY DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WAIT UNTIL IT'S TWO YEARS LATE TO GIVE US OUR MONEY, YOU KNOW, THEY FORWARD FUND US A GOOD CHUNK OF IT, THEN THEY RECONCILE IT WITH THOSE, WITH THOSE RECONCILING PAYMENTS, AND THOSE GENERALLY AREN'T AS LARGE.

UM, BUT THEY CAN FLUCTUATE A LOT.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THIS PAST JANUARY.

WE GOT ONE OF THOSE RECONCILING DISTRIBUTIONS THAT WAS 20 MILLION PREVIOUSLY WAS TWO.

AND IT WAS LIKE, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S THE, WAS COMPLETELY, COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED.

BUT THEN WE'VE ALSO SEEN RECONCILING DISTRIBUTIONS.

WE USED TO GET ONE IN SEPTEMBER THAT THREE YEARS AGO WAS 15 MILLION AND THIS YEAR CAME IN ZERO.

UM, AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY MAKES PROJECTING INCOME TAX A CHALLENGE, UM, FROM JUST SITTING AROUND AND JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IF WE HAD A CLOSED SYSTEM AND WE, AND, AND PEOPLE PAID THEIR INCOME TAX DIRECTLY TO HARTFORD COUNTY AND IT DIDN'T GO THROUGH THE STATE AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE HAVE ALL OF THE, THE, THE, THE COMPLICATIONS OF CAPITAL GAINS AND ESTIMATED PAYMENTS.

AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY FINDING STATEWIDE NOW IS THAT THERE'S A SMALL NUMBER OF VERY HIGH INCOME EARNERS THAT ARE REALLY DRIVING A LOT OF THIS GROWTH.

UM, NOT ALL OF, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY FEW OF WHICH ACTUALLY LIVE IN HARFORD COUNTY.

MANY OF THEM ARE MORE MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND, AND HOWARD COUNTY.

AND WHEN THESE INDIVIDUALS PAY TAXES, IT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE ECONOMY.

IT MAY BE BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING FAMILY PLANNING OR THEY'RE SELLING A BUSINESS OR SOMEONE PASSED AWAY OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THAT ALL JUST ADDS TO THAT VOLATILITY.

SO I'M GONNA TELL YOU THAT I HAVE INFORMATION FROM BARRETT BUSINESS SYSTEMS PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY'VE COLLECTED SO FAR THE FIRST QUARTER OF THIS YEAR, AN INCOME TAXES ABOVE WHAT, WHERE THEY COLLECTED LAST YEAR, OVER 10% ALREADY THAT THEY'VE COLLECTED FOR INCOME TAXES.

SO, SO IT THAT'S NOT 2%.

AND THAT'S A BIG NUMBER IS 10% WHEN THEY'RE COLLECTING ABOUT 25 MILLION, 25 TO 30 MILLION A MONTH SO FAR.

AND I'VE BEEN TOLD IT'S OVER, IT'S OVER 10% INCREASE FROM LAST YEAR.

AND, AND WE ARE SEEING, UM, SO AS SAID BEFORE, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO COMPONENTS TO, UH, TO THOSE DISTRIBUTIONS, THERE'S WITHHOLDING.

AND SO THESE PAYROLL COMPANIES ARE LARGELY DOING WITHHOLDING AND THE STATE.

UM, AND THE COUNTY IS STILL BULLISH ON, ON THE STUFF COMING FROM WAGES.

IT'S THE STUFF COMING FROM ESTIMATED PAYMENTS FROM CAPITAL GAINS, UH, FROM LLCS, FROM PASS THROUGH ENTITIES THAT'S TAKEN A REAL DIP DOWN.

AND TO FURTHER COMPLICATED IS IT'S VERY HARD TO, UM, TO KEEP TRACK OF.

BUT WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE STRONG GROWTH CONTINUING INTO NEXT YEAR FOR WITHHOLDING.

WE DO THINK THAT INFLATION IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO DRIVE THE NEED FOR SALARY INCREASES.

UM, NOW WE THINK IT'S GONNA BE LESS THAN WHAT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, UM, A YEAR AGO, BUT STILL STRONG.

BUT WHERE WE'RE REALLY SEEING THAT DIP, AND THE REASON WHY WE HAVE MORE OR LESS FLAT REVENUE GROWTH, AND THIS IS TRUE OF THIS COUNTY AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHER COUNTIES THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO, IS BECAUSE OF THAT ESTIMATED PAYMENT, IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT DROP.

BECAUSE WE SAW A HUGE DROP IN THE FEBRUARY DISTRIBUTION, WHICH DEALS WITH THE FOURTH QUARTER, UM, OF A LOT OF BUSINESSES SAYING, WHOA, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE PAID TOO MUCH INTO ESTIMATED PAYMENTS.

AND NORMALLY WHAT YOU SEE IS IF YOU SEE IT HAPPEN IN THAT FOURTH QUARTER, IT CONTINUES FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF QUARTERS.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

THE FOURTH QUARTER, THE ESTIMATED TAXES, WHEN THE PAYROLL PROTECTION PROGRAM CAME IN AND THERE WAS A TAX CREDIT FOR EACH ONE OF THESE EMPLOYEES THAT THEY KEPT ON, AND I KNOW A LOT OF BUSINESSES FILED FOR THAT GOT THE MONIES TOWARDS THE LAST PART OF LAST YEAR, AND WE'RE TALKING $10,000 PER EMPLOYEES.

SO IF YOU KEPT ON YOUR EMPLOYEES AND YOU HAD 30 OR 40 EMPLOYEES, THAT'S $300,000 RIGHT THERE.

AND I KNOW A LOT OF EMPLOYEES, CUZ I'VE BEEN TELLING PEOPLE THAT I KNOW THAT I DEAL WITH ON A BUSINESS SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THEY'VE DONE THAT.

THERE, THERE WAS A LOT OF BUSINESSES THAT DIDN'T DO IT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF 'EM THAT WERE WORKING ON IT.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S CALCULATED IN ANYWHERE.

UM, AND, AND IF YOU GUYS CALCULATED IN, BUT, BUT THAT'S GOTTA BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHUNKS TOO, DON'T YOU THINK? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, I MEAN I THINK THAT THERE IS CERTAINLY A PART OF IT, BUT A LOT OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS WERE STILL KIND OF PART OF THE BASE TO, TO BEGIN

[03:15:01]

WITH.

YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S MUCH MORE TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY ARE ADDING WORKERS OR WORKERS ARE GETTING, ARE GETTING RAISES.

BUT AS WE SAID BEFORE, THAT THAT PART, IT WASN'T WORKERS ADDED, IT WAS WORKERS THEY ALREADY HAND ON THAT THEY GOT CREDITS FOR, BUT THEN, BUT THEN IF THEY, BUT, BUT IF, BUT, BUT ALL OF THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY GONNA GET PICKED UP.

ALL OF THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY GONNA GET PICKED UP IN OUR LOCAL INCOME TAX.

SO OUR LOCAL INCOME TAX ONLY DEALS WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO, UM, IF IT'S, IF IT'S INCORPORATED, UM, THEN WE DO NOT HAVE A LOCAL CORPORATE INCOME TAX, UM, IN ORDER TO, THAT WOULD PICK UP SOME OF THAT.

THE ONLY THE STATE HAS A, HAS A, HAS A LOCAL, UM, CORPORATE TAX.

IF SOMEONE WORKS IN HARFORD COUNTY, BUT THEY DON'T LIVE HERE, WE DON'T GET TAXES ON THAT.

NOW, BY THE SAME TOKEN, IF YOU LIVE IN HARFORD COUNTY AND WORK IN BALTIMORE CITY, WE GET THE TAXES, UM, FOR THAT.

BUT IT'S ONLY ON THE INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND IT'S ONLY AT THAT, YOU KNOW, 3.06%.

SO UNLESS WE ARE ACTUALLY ADDING PEOPLE, OUR INDIVIDUALS ARE GETTING, UM, MORE INCOME.

AND AGAIN, THIS CAN COME IN MULTIPLE WAYS, EITHER WAGES OR CAPITAL GAINS, YOU KNOW, NON WAGE INCOME.

UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW, THAT'S HOW IT FUNNELS DOWN TO, TO US.

AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THE FOURTH QUARTER LAST YEAR, A LOT OF THE CAPITAL GAINS AND SO FORTH WASN'T AS GREAT AS IT WAS THE YEAR BEFORE? OH, IT WAS, IT WAS BAD.

I MEAN, YES.

AND THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, BRIAN, KELLY AND THE REST OF OUR SPENDING AFFORDABILITY.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHY THERE WAS A, UM, A DESIRE TO, TO TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS WITH, WITH NEXT YEAR BECAUSE OF THAT NON WAGE INCOME.

WE, WE ALL AGREED THAT WAGE INCOME WAS GONNA CONTINUE TO GROW.

UM, BUT THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE CAUTION.

AND THEN WHEN I SPOKE WITH BOTH THE STATE AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AT THE, AT THE STATE LEVEL, THEY HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO THEIR SOLE JOB IS JUST TO DO INCOME TAX.

AND BY AND LARGE WE, WE KIND OF PIGGYBACK OFF OF THAT KNOWLEDGE, UM, FROM THEM.

BUT EVEN, YOU KNOW, MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO ONLY DOES INCOME TAX AND I'M IN, I'M IN REGULAR CONTACT WITH HIM AND WITH BALTIMORE COUNTY AND THE LIKE, AND I, I COULD SAY THAT THEY WERE ALL, THEY'RE ALL IN THIS LINE OF LINE OF THINKING.

UM, AND IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS KIND OF RIGHT BEFORE THE STATE BUDGET WAS PASSED, UM, THE BUREAU OF REVENUE ESTIMATES, WHICH IS UNDER THE COMPTROLLER, UM, SIGNIFICANTLY WROTE DOWN REVENUES ALL BECAUSE OF, AND IT WAS, IT WAS ENTIRELY DUE TO REALLY THIS, THIS ESTIMATED THIS DROP IN ESTIMATED PAYMENTS AND NON WAGE, YOU KNOW, UM, INCOME.

SO AGAIN, DO THEY GIVE YOU A, DO THEY GIVE YOU A REASON WHY THAT IT'S SO LOW COMPARED TO THE YEAR BEFORE? WHAT'S THE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE REALLY DON'T, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ESTIMATED PAYMENTS ARE COMING IN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU OWN A BUSINESS, YOU'RE SENDING IN MONEY RIGHT NOW, BUT YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY SENDING IN YOUR FULL TAX RETURN.

SO, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE START, ONCE THEY START GETTING IN THE FULL TAX RETURN, THEN THEY CAN KIND OF SEE, YOU KNOW, OKAY, DID THE, DID THE TAXABLE INCOME GO UP OR GO DOWN? BECAUSE THE OTHER PART IS JUST KIND OF THE ESTIMATED PAYMENT, UH, COMPONENT COMPONENT TO IT.

AND UNFORTUNATELY BY THE TIME WE REALLY GET INFORMATION, THEY DO, THEY PUT OUT THESE STATISTICS OF INCOME REPORTS, THEY'RE GENERALLY THREE YEARS OLD BY THE TIME WE GET THEM.

AND THAT'S WHY I THINK AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, YOU TRY TO TAKE A MUCH MORE JUDICIOUS AND CONSERVATIVE APPROACH TO, UM, RATHER THAN TRYING TO, TO FIGURE OUT HOW ALL THE DISTRIBUTIONS ARE GOING TO WORK, UM, YOU, YOU TAKE A, YOU TAKE A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH, UM, OF TRYING TO NOT GET, YOU KNOW, OUT IN FRONT OF YOUR SKIS IF YOU, IF YOU WILL, WITH THESE, WITH THESE PROJECTIONS.

SO GOING BACK THEN, JUST TO THIS CHART, THIS CHART'S WRONG.

I I, I HAVE TO SEE WHAT WHAT I MEAN, AND, AND THIS IS, THIS IS ONE OF THE, THIS IS ONE OF THE, THIS CHART HERE THAT SHOWS WHAT, WHAT YOUR BUDGET IS FOR, UH, INCOME TAXES.

THAT THAT WAS THE 2 99, 7 75.

AND YOU'RE TELLING ME IT'S GONNA BE OVER ABOUT 300, 311 MILLION THIS YEAR? NO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S, THAT WAS THE PRIOR YEAR.

AND THEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT THE FISCAL YEAR 24 BUDGET, THE FISCAL YEAR 24 BUDGET THAT WE'RE, WE'RE EXAMINING NOW HAS AN INCOME TAX OF 311 MILLION.

THE FISCAL YEAR 23 BUDGET HAD A BUDGET OF 299 MILLION MILLION DOLLARS.

SO ARE, WE ARE ON A BUDGET BASIS, WE ARE EXPECTING, UM, BUDGET TO BUDGET INCOME TAX TO GROW.

UM, I THINK IT'S AROUND, IT'S AROUND 4%.

HAVE THINGS THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH, SUCH AS THEY MAY HAVE A, A PAID FIRE SERVICE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. BENNETT.

UM, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT ALL THESE NUMBERS ALL YEAR LONG, UM, AND I'M SURE YOU TALK TO, TO, YOU KNOW, OTHER, UH, TREASURY DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE STATE, LIKE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY WE BRING IN, IN ALL DIFFERENT WAYS, AND THEN THE AMOUNT OF TOTAL RESIDENTS IN THE COUNTY, AND YOU DIVIDE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY OR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY BY THE AMOUNT OF RESIDENTS, LIKE WHERE DO WE COMPARE COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE SIMILAR SHAPED AND SIZED COUNTIES? I MEAN, IT IS, IT IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE ALL OF 'EM HAVE HAVE DIFFERENT, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT TAX BURDENS, YOU KNOW, SO BALTIMORE COUNTY HAS A, HAS A PROPERTY TAX RATE OF A DOLLAR 10.

UH, WE WITH, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR COMBINED HIGHWAY AND AND GENERAL FUND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ONE OF 98 CENTS.

THEY HAVE, UH, MOST OF THE OTHER LARGE JURISDICTIONS HAVE INCOME TAX RATES OF 3.2%.

OURS IS 3.06%.

UM, NOW THEY ALSO

[03:20:01]

UM, UP UNTIL A A MONTH AGO WE, WE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE LARGELY ONLY HAD A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE ON THE EMT SIDE, AND NOW THAT'S GROWN, THAT'S GROWN CONSIDERABLY.

UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, MAKES THOSE TYPES OF COMPARISONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OVERALL LEVEL OF, OF, UM, OF THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.

HARD NOW FOR THE MOST, I WILL SAY A LOT OF THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS DO HAVE, UM, YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT SAY A CARROLL COUNTY, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A COMPARABLE TAX RATE, BUT WE HAVE A LOWER TAX RATE NOW THAN, THAN DOES CARROLL, THAN THAN DOES CARROLL COUNTY.

CARROLL COUNTY'S AROUND A DOLLAR TWO.

UM, SO WE'RE AROUND 90, 98 CENTS.

UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHERE CECIL IS.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY WE'RE, WE'RE ON THE LOWER END OF, OF THE, OF THE TAX BURDEN, BUT DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT COUNTIES HAVE DIFFERENT ACCESSIBLE BASES.

SO FOR ALL THOSE YEARS, WHEN I WORKED IN CARROLL COUNTY, CARROLL COUNTY HAS VERY, HAS A VERY SMALL COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL BASE.

UM, IT'S ALMOST ALL RESIDENTIAL AND AG.

WE HAVE A LARGER COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL BASE, BUT NOWHERE NEAR WHAT A BALTIMORE COUNTY OR A MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAS.

ANOTHER CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE HERE IS ALL OF APG IS NOT TAXABLE.

SO WHILE IT DOES PRODUCE A LOT OF GOOD PAYING JOBS THAT WHERE THE RESIDENTS, UM, ARE PAYING US INCOME TAX AND THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY OWN HOMES AND THEY'RE LIVING HERE, UM, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THAT PROPERTY ON APG IS REALLY NOT TAXABLE.

NOW, IF THERE ARE CONTRACTORS OUTSIDE THE GATE, THEN YEAH, WE ARE, WE HAVE PROPERTY TAXES ON, ON THOSE, YOU KNOW, ALONG THE ROUTE 40 CORRIDOR, UM, AND ALL.

BUT, SO THAT IS A, THAT CERTAINLY IS ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT FACTOR THAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS DON'T HAVE.

I MEAN, WHEN, IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP, THE, UM, THE LAND MASS OF APG TO THIS COUNTY, UM, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T EVEN, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COUNTY IN MARYLAND THAT PROBABLY HAS A, UM, THAT, THAT THAT TYPE OF A RATIO, UM, OF, OF, UH, NON-TAXABLE DUE TO A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INSTALLATION.

SO, UM, AND DO YOU, I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF, WE'RE IN A WEIRD SPOT IN JUST THE WAY WE'VE GROWN IN THE PAST FEW DECADES OF LIKE, WE'RE, WE'RE NO LONGER QUITE COMPARABLE TO THOSE EASTERN, SOUTHERN, WESTERN COUNTIES, BUT WE ALSO DON'T QUITE FIT IN YET WITH THE BALTIMORE, MONTGOMERY, PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTIES, HOWARD COUNTY.

THANK GOOD.

UM, BUT WE'RE LIKE KIND OF, WE'RE KIND OF LIKE FREDERICK COUNTY.

WE'RE KIND OF IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO WORLDS.

UM, DO YOU THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED? IT IS.

IT IS.

SOME SOMEWHAT, UM, I MEAN, AT THE STATE LEVEL THERE IS, YOU KNOW, HARFORD COUNTY KIND OF BEING THAT, UM, SOMETIMES THE SMALLER COUNTIES GO ALONG CUZ I, WELL THE SMALLER COUNTIES ARE A MIX.

YOU HAVE SOME VERY, VERY WEALTHY, SMALLER COUNTIES LIKE, LIKE ALBE, AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE SOME, UM, SOME VERY POOR ONES LIKE SOMERSET AND LIKE, AND, AND A LOT OF TIMES THE SMALLER ONES KIND OF GO ALONG WITH THE FUNDING FORMULAS THAT THE, THAT, UH, THAT, THAT APPLY TO A BALTIMORE CITY OR A PRINCE GEORGE'S, UH, COUNTY.

UM, AND, AND THEN YOU OFTENTIMES, AND I THINK WE FIND THIS SOMETIMES WITH OUR SCHOOL FUNDING AND THE LIKELY THAT WE'VE ALWAYS HAD IS THAT HARFORD COUNTY, THE, THESE MIDDLE COUNTIES SOMETIMES KIND OF GET CAUGHT IN THESE STATE FORMULAS.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT SMALL ENOUGH THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE LARGER COUNTIES SOMETIMES GET A GREATER SHARE.

THE SMALLER COUNTIES KIND OF GO ALONG FOR THE RIDE, UM, AND THE MIDDLE COUNTIES TAKE, UM, TAKE A HIT.

AND, AND A LOT OF THE STATE FORMULAS ARE, UM, THEY ARE WEALTH DRIVEN.

AND THIS, THIS COUNTY HAS, UM, STRONG DEMOGRAPHICS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF, UM, MIDDLE AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS INDIVIDUALS.

UM, UM, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE A TRIP WAVE ON RATING, UM, THAT WE HAVE.

WE, WE HAVE ALL THAT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETIMES, UM, YOUR, YOUR ABILITY OF TO GET STATE FUNDING, UM, IT DOES DIMINISH IT.

AND THEN ON THE, ON THE LOCAL PRO ON THE LOCAL SIDE, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR LEVEL OF TAXATIONS ULTIMATELY COMES DOWN TO WE HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET.

SO IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT THAT YOU, THAT YOU WANT VERSUS WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE TAXES NOW, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PLAY SOMETIMES WITH, YOU KNOW, USING FUND BALANCE AND, UM, THE LIKE TO, TO BRIDGE GAPS.

BUT IT'S, UM, IT'S, IT'S A CONVERSATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ANYMORE.

WE'VE REALLY BEEN DIVORCED FROM THIS IDEA OF, OF TAXES VERSUS, VERSUS GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

BUT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, IT REALLY IS TRUE.

AND YOU KNOW, THESE, THIS INCOME TAX AND ITS PROPERTY TAX, IT'S, IT'S 90%, 90% OF OUR, OF OUR REVENUE.

UM, AND TO A LARGE EXTENT, THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT THAT YOU, THAT YOU CAN AFFORD IS DEPENDENT UPON THESE, THESE TWO REVENUE SOURCES.

UM, AND HOW, UM, YOU KNOW, STRIKING THAT BALANCE WITH, WITH WHAT YOU, WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT YOU WANT VERSUS, UH, WHAT TYPE OF TAX BURDEN YOU WANT.

THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT.

MR. PENMAN.

THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.

I, I CUT.

WANT TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK OFF OF, UM, UH, WHAT TONY WAS SAYING, UM, AND COUNCILMAN JAMES, I DIDN'T WANNA MESS IT UP.

SO , SO THE PROJECTIONS FOR THIS YEAR, FY 23 ARE 310 MILLION, RIGHT? CORRECT.

SO, AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS AND I'VE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS, UM, AND I, I FEEL LIKE I GET CONFUSED THE MORE I TALK ABOUT IT, BUT LAST YEAR'S PROJECTION, I KNOW LAST YEAR, FY 22, I SHOULD SAY THE BUDGET WE BUDGETED 268 MILLION ROUGHLY, RIGHT? YES.

AND THEN, BUT THE ACTUAL NUMBERS THAT WERE RECEIVED, UH, WERE 330.

[03:25:01]

I KNOW YOUR PREVIOUS, UH, PRESENTATION YOU HAD AT 298, BUT THE STATE HOLD WITHHOLDS SOME FUNDS FOR A LIMITED TIME AND THEN REDDIS DISPERSES THEM TO US, RIGHT? WELL, HOPEFULLY AT SOME, AT SOME, AT SOME, AT SOME POINT.

AND NOW I'M, I'M REALLY GONNA GET INTO, INTO INTO THE WEEDS AND I KNOW, AND I DID PUT THIS IN AN, IN AN EMAIL, UM, AND I CAN RESEND THAT, THAT EMAIL TOO, BUT THERE ARE, THERE'S, THERE'S LIKE TWO WAYS OF LOOKING AT, AT, UM, INCOME FROM AN ACCOUNTING PERSPECTIVE.

UM, YOU HAVE FULL ACCRUAL, WHICH IS SAYING THAT, OKAY, IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, ANY MONEY THAT IS ACTUALLY, UH, DUE TO THE COUNTY, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS RECEIVED OR NOT, YOU, YOU NEED TO BOOK THAT.

AND SO WHEN IT COMES TO OUR INCOME TAX IN FISCAL YEAR 22, THEY, THE COMPTROLLER SENT US JUST SHY OF 300 MILLION.

UM, THAT'S MONEY THAT WE HAVE.

WE HAVE IN HAND, WE HAVE ACCESS TO, WE CAN SPEND, IT'S IN OUR BANK.

THEN THEY WITHHELD 30 MILLION TO PUT INTO THE LOCAL INCOME TAX RESERVE.

AND NOT JUST FROM THIS COUNTY, FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT, ALL THE DIFFERENT COUNTIES.

NOW THAT IS TECHNICALLY OUR MONEY, BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO IT, IT'S REALLY NOT OUR MONEY AND WE CAN'T BUDGET BASED ON THAT.

UM, AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THAT LOCAL INCOME TAX RESERVE? IT HAS GROWN CONSIDERABLY.

AND THIS IS A SITU, THIS IS A CONVERSATION WE HAVE AT MAKO, UM, QUITE A BIT, IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY, UM, IT CONTINUES, IT CONTINUES TO GROW, UM, AT THE, AT THE LEVEL THAT IT HAS.

WHY IS IT BE, YOU KNOW, AND THEY'LL SAY THAT IT'S BASED ON A, IT'S BASED ON A FORMULA.

UM, AND IT'S BASED UPON WHAT THE, THE AUDITORS, UH, UM, SAY THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE IN ORDER TO PAY OUT, UH, POTENTIAL REFUNDS AND, AND ALL OF THIS, THIS STUFF.

AND MAYBE THAT'S, THAT'S PROBABLY A LEGITIMATE REASON, BUT FROM A REAL PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, IT DOES MEAN THAT WE, WE HAVE LESS INCOME TAX THAN WE OTHERWISE, THAN WE OTHERWISE SHOULD.

AND WHY IT'S PARTICULARLY A PROBLEM IS ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO, THE STATE, WHEN THEY WERE IN A RECESSION, THEY TOOK FROM THAT LOCAL INCOME TAX RESERVE TO BALANCE THEIR BOOKS.

AND THERE WAS TALK AND ACTUALLY LEGISLATION PASSED THAT THEY TOOK OUR MONEY AND THEN THEY WERE GONNA MAKE US PAY IT BACK, PAY BACK OURSELVES.

SO IT WOULD BE LIKE, IF I TOOK MONEY OUTTA YOUR SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

AND I WAS LIKE, THANKS.

AND THEN I WAS LIKE, YEAH, YOU, YOU NEED TO REPLENISH THAT SAVINGS ACCOUNT CUZ I MIGHT NEED IT IN AGAIN IN THE FUTURE, .

UM, AND THEY DID CHANGE THEIR MIND AND THEY REPLENISH IT THEMSELVES, BUT IT'S ALWAYS A, A, A TARGET THAT WE, THAT WE WORRY ABOUT, UM, WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE STATE.

UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT WE, YEAH, WE CAN DO.

AND I, I TRY TO, WE TRY TO HAVE THIS, THIS DISCUSSION WITH MACO AND WITH OUR REPRESENTATIVES AT THE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE.

UM, AND IT IS, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE, BUT IN THE, BUT A PRACTICAL SENSE, YEAH, IT'S OUR MONEY, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT AVAILABLE.

IT'S JUST LIKE, IT'S LIKE AN I O U.

UM, SO YEAR AFTER YEAR THEY'RE KEEPING THIS MONEY AND IT'S NEVER BEING DISPERSED TO THE COUNTIES.

SO THERE WAS LIKE ONE, ONE YEAR WHERE, WHERE I GUESS LIKE WHEN THEY WOULD GIVE US THIS RESERVE AMOUNT, IT WAS LOWER THAN THE PRIOR YEAR, BUT IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, IT'S GROWN EACH AND EVERY YEAR.

AND I THINK IT'S LARGELY GROWN BECAUSE OF A LOT OF THIS VOLATILITY WITH, WITH THE, UM, WITH THE INCOME TAX, UM, THAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

LIKE IF YOU JUST GO BACK TO, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN LIKE, I'M LOOKING HERE, I GOT, YOU KNOW, MY HISTORY IN, IN, UM, IN FISCAL JUST, JUST FISCAL YEAR 2020, YOU KNOW, WE WERE, WE WERE 245, 240 5 MILLION, YOU KNOW, NOW WE'RE THREE 11, WE'VE SEEN A HUGE GROWTH.

20, UM, 10 YEARS AGO WE WERE, WE WERE 180 3.

UM, AND I THINK AS, AS YOU'VE HAD A LOT OF THIS GROWTH, PARTICULARLY FROM THIS NON WAGE, UM, NON WAGE EARNERS, I THINK THEY ARE HOLDING, HOLDING MORE BACK BECAUSE OF THAT VOLATILITY.

UM, AND WE DO, WE STRUGGLE WITH GETTING A GOOD, A GOOD ANSWER ON IT, BUT THAT'S WHY WE DO FROM A FINANCIAL AUDIT POINT OF POINT OF VIEW, WE, WE DO HAVE TO SHOW THAT FULL AMOUNT BECAUSE IT DOES REPRESENT THE COUNTY'S MONEY.

IT'S JUST NOT OUR AVAILABLE MONEY.

SO IN 21, UH, WE FINISHED WITH 290 MILLION, UH, ACTUALS 310.

SO THE, THE STATE KEPT 20 MILLION THERE.

AND THEN IN FY 22 WE FINISHED WITH 298 MILLION ACTUALS, 330, SO ANOTHER 32 MILLION THERE.

SO 52 MILLION OVER TWO YEARS THAT THEY'VE KEPT.

NOW IN YOUR EMAIL, I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT WE COULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT IF WE NEEDED.

MAYBE I'M WRONG ON THAT.

WELL, NOT SO MUCH THAT WE CAN HAVE ACCESS TO IT, BUT IF THEY NEEDED IT TO DO REFUNDS AND, AND SOME OF IT IS ALMOST THIS HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION THAT IF THE INCOME TAX JUST STOPPED, THAT THEY WOULD NEED THAT IN ORDER TO RECONCILE ALL THE UM, UM, ALL THE FINAL REFUNDS, WHICH IS JUST LUDICROUS BECAUSE THE INCOME TAX IS NOT GOING TO STOP.

BUT THAT'S THE JUSTIFICATION, YOU KNOW, ON IT, ON, ON THEIR PART.

YEAH, THEY ARE RE PROBABLY STOPS WORKING.

OUR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, YOU CAN SEE ALL THE MONEY THAT'S COMING IN THROUGH THE YEAR.

SO, UM, SO YEAH, THAT IS, THAT IS A REAL, A REAL ISSUE.

AND, UM, BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE, UM, WE GET AND, AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE AUDITOR, YOU CAN, CAN CHECK WITHIN, WITHIN

[03:30:01]

WE, WE GET A DISBURSEMENT FROM, UM, FROM THE, THE STATE FOR INCOME TAX FOR THE MOST PART ABOUT EVERY MONTH, UM, A COUPLE MONTHS.

WE DON'T GET, THERE'S NOTHING IN APRIL.

UM, AND THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING IN APRIL.

AND THEN FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES, WE HAVEN'T BEEN GETTING ANYTHING IN SEPTEMBER BECAUSE, UM, WE HAVEN'T BEEN, UH, OVER DISTRIBUTED.

UM, BUT, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, OH, IN DECEMBER WE DON'T GET ANY MONEY IN DECEMBER.

UM, BUT YEAH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT MONEY YOU GO THROUGH THE, THE, THE FINANCIALS AND YOU CAN SEE WITH IT WITH, IN OTHER PAGES IN THE BUDGET BOOK, AND I KNOW HOW TO PUT THIS IN, UM, THE EMAIL THAT I, THAT I SENT, I'M ABLE TO KIND OF TIE IT IT OUT WHERE I SAY, OKAY, IT'S THIS NUMBER, BUT THEN YOU CAN SEE IT SAYS UN UNCOLLECTED.

UM, YOU SUBTRACT THAT FROM THAT AND YOU GET, YOU GET THE NUMBER THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH.

UM, SO, SO, UM, JUST A FEW MORE, FEW MORE QUESTIONS ON THIS.

IT, IS IT REASONABLE TO SAY THAT IF, IF WE, YOU KNOW, ARE IN A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, THAT YOU CAN REACH OUT TO THE STATE AND SAY, LOOK, WE'RE IN A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, WE HAVE AN ISSUE.

NO, WE NEED, WE NEED THE MONEY THAT YOU'RE HOLDING IN RESERVE FOR US.

YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY'RE ONLY GONNA BE CONCERNED WITH THE REVENUE.

SO, OR THEY, YOU JUST WAIT FOR A DISBURSEMENT WHENEVER THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU A DISBURSEMENT? YES, WE ARE, WE ARE A HUNDRED PERCENT.

UM, THE, THE COUNTIES EXIST BECAUSE THE STATE SAYS WE EXIST PRETTY, PRETTY MUCH.

UM, AND THE INCOME TAX IS ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE AND COUNTIES.

UM, WE GO ALONG WITH, WITH THAT SYSTEM, WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY FOR 'EM.

IF YOU, UM, IN ADDITION TO HOLDING BACK SOME FROM THE RESERVE, THEY ALSO JUST, UH, TAKE SOME FOR ADMINISTRATION FEE.

AND THIS IS ALWAYS HAS BOTHERED ME BECAUSE WE COLLECT STATE PROPERTY TAXES AND WE DON'T GET ANYTHING.

THEY COLLECT COUNTY INCOME TAXES AND THEY GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, UH, FOR, UM, ADMINISTRATION FEES.

I, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GETTING FROM US, BUT FROM ALL OF THE COUNTIES.

UM, AND, AND YEAH, I MEAN WE ARE, IT'S NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE, WE, WE'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY, UM, RATED THAT FUND.

SO, SO WHY DON'T WE PUT IT AS AN ACTUAL NUMBER IF WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY RECEIVING IT? BECAUSE FROM AN ACCOUNTING STANDPOINT, THIS GETS INTO THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KIND OF FULL ACCRUAL AND MODIFIED ACCRUAL.

AND FULL ACCRUAL SAYS IF, IF IT'S ENTITLED TO YOU, EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T RECEIVED IT YET, YOU NEED TO BOOK IT.

AND MODIFIED ACCRUAL SAYS ONLY IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT WITHIN 60 DAYS.

SO WE HAVE SOME INCOME TAX THAT COMES IN 60 DAYS AFTER, UH, THE CLOSE OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

SO, UM, THERE'S SOME MONEY THAT COMES IN IN JULY AND MONEY THAT COMES IN IN AUGUST.

SO WE DO BOOK THOSE ACCORDING TO THAT FISCAL YEAR.

THE OTHER PART, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE, WE JUST HAVE TO NOTE AND TIE OUT IN OUR, IN OUR FINANCIALS.

I AGREE.

IT'S NOT, UM, I I WOULD, I DON'T THINK IT SERVES THE, I DON'T THINK IT SERVES ANY REAL BENEFIT OF, OF HAVING THAT NUMBER THERE IN A VERY VISIBLE WAY.

UM, IT IS, I I DON'T THINK IT HELPS ANYBODY.

I DON'T THINK IT HELPS GREATER UNDERSTANDING.

I THINK IT CREATES MORE CONFUSION.

UM, BUT I'M KIND OF ACCOUNTING RULES DOING WHAT THEY ARE.

TWO MORE QUESTIONS AND I'LL TURN IT OVER.

SO YOU'VE ONLY SEEN IT ONE TIME WHERE THEY'VE DISPERSED THAT MONEY TO THE COUNTY? WELL, WHAT YOU JUST SEE IS YOU SEE, YOU SEE THE NUMBER YEAH, THE NUM THE, THE NUMBER THAT THEY SAY THAT THEY'RE WITHHOLDING, UM, GOT A LITTLE BIT SMALLER.

UM, YEAH.

UH, AND SO IT, LIKE, IT KIND OF SH IT, IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT DOESN'T, LIKE, IT DOESN'T COME TO US IN THE DISBURSEMENT.

IT KIND OF COMES TO US AT YEAR END WHEREBY THEY SAY, OH, THIS IS THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE WITHHOLDING, AND THEN IF WE COMPARE THAT TO THE FOLLOWING YEAR, THEN WE CAN SEE IF IT WENT UP OR DOWN.

AND THAT'S HOW WE BOOK THAT DIFFERENCE.

UM, BUT FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES, WE, I CAN ONLY REMEMBER ABOUT ONE YEAR WHERE I SAW LIKE IT, WHERE I SAW LIKE IT SMALLER, BUT IT'S, IT'S REALLY TAKEN OFF.

LIKE IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK, UM, AND WE CAN, WE CAN GO THROUGH THE, I MEAN, I'D HAVE TO GET, I'D HAVE TO GET ALL THE FINANCIALS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT, UM, IT WAS, IT'S REALLY BEEN IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THAT IT'S REALLY, UM, GONE UP CONSIDERABLY.

IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN, UM, MAYBE EVEN GIVE ME THAT NUMBER OR US THAT NUMBER EACH YEAR? YEAH.

AND, AND, AND WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE PROJECTION FOR 23? SO YOU SAID THREE 110 MILLION.

I KNOW THINGS CHANGED BECAUSE ON MARCH 7TH YOU HAD A 316.8 MILLION.

SO IT'S PROJECTED AT 299 BUDGETED FOR FY 23.

SO IN YOUR ESTIMATION, WHAT WOULD THEY BE KEEPING ON TOP OF THAT 310 MILLION? THAT IS GONNA BE HOPEFULLY IN ACTION.

I HAVE TO SEE IF WE COULD, YOU KNOW, I I, AND THIS GUN GOES BACK TO, I DON'T REALLY GET A LOT OF GREAT DATA FROM, FROM THEM, UM, IN ORDER, IN ORDER TO DO THIS, BUT I CAN, I CAN SEE IF I, AND I CAN CHECK WITH SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTIES AND SEE IF THEY CAN, IF THEY CAN FIND IT, BUT IT'S LARGELY, I DO A, IT'S LARGELY AN ACADEMIC POINT, AT LEAST IN, IN THE, IN THE HERE AND NOW.

UM, SO, BUT I MEAN, I CAN, I CAN WORK ON THAT, BUT I CAN'T REALLY PROMISE MUCH BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BLACK BOX.

DO THEY SHOW THAT IN THE STATE BUDGET TO WHERE I CAN SEE THAT ON THE STATE BUDGET SIDE? NO, I DON'T THINK THEY WERE SHOWING THE STATE BUDGET BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING THEIR REVENUES ON THE SAME WAY THAT WE ARE OURS.

[03:35:01]

THAT'S, ALTHOUGH IN THEIR CASE IT'S ALL AVAILABLE TO YOU.

SO IT WOULDN'T BE IN THE STATE BUDGET.

IT'S PROBABLY, IT'S PROBABLY IN THE STATE FINANCIALS.

DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THAT TO WHERE YOU CAN SHARE? I'D HAVE, WELL, I MEAN, ANYBODY CAN GO IN AND, I MEAN IT'S ALL JUST UNDER THE, UM, YOU CAN JUST, THE, THE, UH, STATE OF MARYLAND UNDER THE COMPTROLLER SITE WOULD, WOULD HAVE THEIR, THEIR FINANCIALS, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU, WE'D HAVE TO FIND, I'D HAVE TO FIND THAT, YOU KNOW, WHICH PAGE AND ALL IT IS ONE PLACE.

AND IT WOULD SHOW HARFORD COUNTY, THIS IS WHAT THE DISPERSMENT THAT WAS.

I DON'T THINK WE BREAK IT DOWN BY COUNTY, BUT I CAN, I CAN SHOW YOU.

I, WHAT I CAN PROVIDE IS THAT, UM, CUZ WE'RE ALWAYS ON THEM EACH AND EVERY YEAR AT THE END OF THE YEAR FOR US, FOR THEM TO SEND US THAT, FOR US TO, FOR THEM TO SEND US THAT PIECE OF PAPER, UM, THAT SHOWS WHAT ALL THE AREAS ARE BECAUSE WE CAN'T FINISH OUR FINANCIALS UNTIL WE HAVE IT.

AND IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE BIT LIKE, UH, IT, IT'S ALWAYS ONE OF THE LAST PIECES TO COME TO COME.

SO I'M ALWAYS CALLING IT UP CONTACTS I KNOW TO BE LIKE, CAN YOU SEND IT? CAN YOU SEND IT? UM, SO I CAN SEND, I CAN SEND THAT, UM, THAT SHEET THAT WOULD SHOW, UM, KIND OF WHAT IT'S BEEN OVER THE YEARS.

UM, BUT IT IS, IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO KIND OF TIE BACK INTO WHAT THE ACTUAL DISTRIBUTIONS ARE BECAUSE THE ACTUAL DISTRIBUTIONS KIND OF, IT, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF HAPPENING ON THE FLIP SIDE ALMOST, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW IT'S CONFUSING.

I I MIGHT BE MAKING THIS MORE CONFUSING.

UM, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN WORK ON IT, YOU KNOW, AS, UM, BUT I, I CAN'T PROMISE ANYONE.

I'LL, I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THE, THE INFORMATION.

NO, THERE'S DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS.

AARON.

A ANYONE ELSE? MR. GUTHRIE? UH, SOUNDS LIKE INSTEAD OF PAY GO, IT'S PAID COMMS MAYBE OR NEVER , UH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE VET, UH, TAX CREDIT.

HOW ABOUT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SENIOR TAX CREDIT.

WOULD THAT BE APPROPRIATE IN THIS SAME, WELL, IT'S ONE AND THE SAME.

WELL, CORRECT.

I MEAN, IT'S VET, YOU HAVE TO BE A VET, CORRECT? ON THE SENIOR TAX CREDIT, YOU HAVE TO BE, WHAT, OVER 65, RIGHT? YES.

AND YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE FOR 35.

IS IT 35 YEARS? YEAH.

STATE, STATE ENABLING LEGISLATION.

I MEAN, WHEN I SAY IT'S ONE AND THE SAME, IT'S, IT'S, UM, IT IS, IT'S CALLED THE SENIOR AND VETERAN TAX TAX CREDIT.

SO IT'S, IT'S ONE CREDIT.

YOU, YOU CAN'T APPLY FOR IT BOTH WAYS.

SO IF YOU WERE A SENIOR AND A DISABLED VETERAN, YOU DON'T GET DOUBLE TAPED YET.

AND, UM, UM, AND YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE FOR OVER 35 YEARS, CORRECT? RIGHT.

UM, WHICH TO ME, I, I THINK THAT DISCRIMINATES ON THE SENIOR CITIZENS, UH, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S TOTALLY UNFAIR THAT IF SOMEBODY LIVED IN TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT HOUSES IN, IN HARFORD COUNTY, UH, THEY ACTUALLY ARE PAYING MORE ON THE LONG RUN IN TAXES AND, AND TRANSFER IN ALL OTHER STUFF TO THE PERSON THAT'S BEEN LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE, YOU KNOW, 35 OR 40 YEARS.

AND IT'S, UH, UH, PROBABLY A LOWER, UH, PAY, A LOWER TAX RATE AND ALL THAT.

SO, YEAH.

WELL, SO, SO THE, THE, THE THINKING ORIGINALLY BEHIND THIS, AND THIS WAS, OH BY THE WAY, IT'S ALSO $600,000 LIMIT, RIGHT? YES, IT IS A 600, YEAH.

THE ORIGINAL, THE ORIGINAL IDEA BEHIND, UM, FROM THE, FROM THE STATE WAS THAT INDIVIDUALS SHOULD BE ABLE TO KIND OF AGE IN PLACE MM-HMM.

THAT IF YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU'VE BEEN LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE SINCE 1975 AND UM, ASSESSMENTS HAVE KIND OF GONE UP AND YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD, YOU SHOULD, WE SHOULD PROVIDE SOME TYPE OF A CREDIT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL THAT'S HAVING AN AGING IN AGING IN PLACE.

IF YOU WERE TO EXTEND IT TO INDIVIDUALS WHO, UM, WHO MAYBE THEY, AND MAYBE THEY MOVED HERE IN 75, BUT THEN THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY DOWNSIZED YOUR UPSIZE OR WHATEVER IN 2005.

UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOW STANDING THE TAX CREDIT, RIGHT? SO NOW HAS A HIGHER, IT HAS A, IT HAS A HIGHER FISCAL NOTE.

UM, THERE'S ALSO THEN, UH, DIFFICULTIES IN ADMINISTERING IT.

CAUSE FROM AN ADMINISTRATION STANDPOINT OF VIEW, NOW I CAN GO AND I CAN BE LIKE, I CAN LOOK AT YOUR HOUSE AND BE LIKE, YEP, THIS IS THE DEED, THIS IS WHEN HE PURCHASED IT.

YOU KNOW? NOW I WOULD HAVE TO BE, I WOULD HAVE TO KIND OF GO THROUGH AND AND BE LIKE, ALL RIGHT, HOW CAN I PROVE THAT HE'S LIVED HERE? I GOTTA GET MULTIPLE DEEDS.

MAYBE THERE'S A GAP.

MAYBE THERE'S A YEAR WHERE, WHERE YOU, YOU LIVED AT THE BEACH AND NOW IT'S LIKE, YEAH.

AND I'M JUST SAYING THAT FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON.

BUT I UNDERSTAND THE R D THAT, THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS HAVE BEEN PAID IN THEIR, THEIR TAXES FOR MANY YEARS AND NOW THEY, THEY DON'T, THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE.

DO, UH, CAN YOU GIMME SOME KIND OF A BREAKDOWN ON, ON THE TAXES, UM, WHAT IT'S COST OR TO, TO PUT THIS PROGRAM IN EFFECT JUST FOR THE SENIORS? NOT FOR THE VETS? UM, YEAH, I THINK IT, WELL, I CAN DO THE, I I THINK, UM, YEAH, I, I KNOW I CAN DEFINITELY GET YOU THE, THE, THE, THE HEADCOUNT AND AT THE VERY LEAST WE COULD JUST PRORATE IT.

UM, SO EVEN IF I DON'T HAVE THE, I DON'T HAVE THE STRAIGHT DOLLAR AMOUNT, I CAN SAY IT IS OVERWHELMINGLY INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE LIVED.

SO THERE'S, YOU CAN BE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S 65 OR OLDER, 35 IN THE SAME HOUSE, 65 AND OLDER, RETIRED MILITARY, AND, UM, AND THEN 60, UH, I'M SORRY, ANY AGE AND DISABLED, UM, DISABLED MILITARY WITH AT LEAST A 50% OF ORDER, UM, DISABILITY.

UM, NOW TO FURTHER COMPLICATE THAT, IF YOU HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT SERVICE CONNECTED

[03:40:01]

DISABILITY, UM, YOU, YOU DON'T PAY ANY TAXES.

YOU HAVE, YOU, UM, YOU HAVE A COMPLETE STATEMENT OF, OF ALL YOUR TAXES.

SO THIS WOULD BE 50% TO 99%.

UM, AND I CAN SAY THAT THE, THE DISABLED VET PART AND THIS AND THE VET ARE PROBABLY ABOUT A A HUNDRED OR SOMETHING COMBINED.

IT'S, IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY 35 YEARS.

UM, SAME HOUSE.

I'VE JUST HAD A NUMBER OF MY SENIORS WHO, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN HERE, UH, 50, 60 YEARS, BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN TWO DIFFERENT HOUSES.

AND IT'S DIVIDED UP JUST ENOUGH THAT THEY DON'T HAVE 35 YEARS.

NO, THIS IS NOT SELF-SERVING CAUSE I DON'T QUALIFY UNDER IT REGARDLESS.

SO IT DOESN'T MATTER.

SO, UM, GIVE IT SIGN, UH, YOU GOTTA RAISE THAT 600,000.

UH, WELL, ALRIGHT.

IS, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE, WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO THE, THE COUNTY'S PORTFOLIO OF OUR OPERATING, OPERATING FUNDS, IT'S LARGELY EITHER IN THE MARYLAND, UM, LOCAL GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT POOL THAT THE STATE RUNS OR WE'RE BUYING TREASURIES, UM, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF I CAN GET SOME KIND OF NUMBER, I APPRECIATE IT.

YEAH, I CAN, I CAN PROVIDE A, A, UM, A, A A, A BREAKDOWN.

SO ROBBIE, WE'VE, WE'VE COME OFF OF SEVERAL YEARS OF, UH, OF BUDGET SESSIONS WITH NO MAJOR CONCERNS ABOUT, UH, ABOUT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE BUDGET EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE YEARS AGO WITH THE BOARD OF ED.

AT WHAT POINT ARE, WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE COUNTY BUDGET HAD STRUCTURAL DEFICIT AND WE ONLY HEARD ABOUT IT IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS? HOW DID WE GET THERE? AND WAS IT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAVE, UH, BEEN AVOIDED IF ADDRESSED SOONER? I MEAN, THIS, THIS GOES, GOES BACK TO SOME OF THE DISCUSSION WE HAD BEFORE.

AND I MEAN, AND ALWAYS REMEMBER, I MEAN, I, I, I WORK, YOU KNOW, I, UM, PROFESSIONALLY, YOU KNOW, LOOK OUT FOR THE BEST INTERESTS OF, OF, OF THE COUNTY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M APPOINTED BY THE, BY, YOU KNOW, BY THE COUNTY, BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

AND THEN A LOT OF TIMES THE QUESTION IS, IS, YOU KNOW, CAN WE MAKE THIS, CAN WE MAKE THIS WORK? AND WE HAD A LOT OF CONCERNS LAST YEAR WITHIN, WITH HIGH INFLATION.

UM, IN ORDER TO, UM, IN ORDER TO, TO, UH, ADDRESS SOME OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE SCHOOLS WAS HAVING A HARD TIME RECRUITING THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR WAGE PACKAGE.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH LOTS OF INFLATION.

THERE WERE SOME PROJECTS THAT, THAT THE COMMUNITY, UH, WANTED TO SEE.

UM, AND THEN THERE WAS A, A BELIEF TOO THAT LIKE, HEY, WE CAN'T JUST INCREASE GOVERNMENT SPENDING WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO HELP OUT THE, THE, THE TAXPAYERS.

AND WE DID, WE HAD, WE HAD A LARGE FUND BALANCE, UM, AND WE KIND OF KNEW THAT LIKE, HEY, THIS MAY NOT BE ABLE TO, TO TO LAST TO LAST FOREVER.

UM, BUT THAT WE COULD, YOU KNOW, WE COULD MAKE THIS, WE COULD MAKE THIS WORK.

AND AGAIN, WE, WE DON'T HAVE A, A TROOP DEFICIT.

WE HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

WE JUST HAVE ONGOING REVENUES, LESS THAN ONGOING EXPENDITURES.

UM, YOU KNOW, SO IN MY POSITION, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ALWAYS CONS, YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEWHAT CONCERNED.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, THE, THE RESERVES, YOU KNOW, CAN ALWAYS BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.

YOU ALWAYS WANT TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING.

UM, AND I, I, I'LL TELL YOU AS A, AS A PERSON WHO IN COLLEGE WAS A CRAZY LIBERTARIAN, THE FACT THAT I AM NOW A, UH, UH, A VERY JUDICIOUS, UM, UH, FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE PERSON WHO WORRIES ABOUT CUTTING TAXES TOO MUCH OR KEEPING ENOUGH IN THE RESERVES IS, WAS NOT EXPECTED.

BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, HERE, HERE I AM.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WERE ABLE TO MAKE THAT WORK, BUT THERE WERE ALWAYS CONCERNS.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE, THAT WE WOULD FIGURE THAT WE WOULD NEED TO ADDRESS THEM.

I THINK WHAT UNFORTUNATELY HAPPENED IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, UM, SOME THINGS TOOK A, UM, A MORE SIGNIFICANT TURN, YOU KNOW, THE INCOME TAX, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE HAD TO THROTTLE THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT.

UM, WHAT WE SAW WITH THE RISE OF THE INTEREST RATES MADE OUR, UM, REPUTATION AND TRANSFER TAX GO DOWN, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN, THAN THAN EXPECTED.

UM, SO YOU KIND OF HAD THAT, BUT THEN YOU STILL HAVE THIS ONGOING INFLATION ISSUE AS WELL, WHICH IS DRIVING UP COST.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CERTAINLY HAD CONCERNS.

WE, WE KNEW THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO, THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE ANOTHER BUDGET LIKE THAT.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, WE, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE CONCERNS AND THE, THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY LAST YEAR, I THINK WE, WE, YOU KNOW, WE THOUGHT THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE, THE ELECTIVES WANTED TO DO.

AND, AND FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT, WE WERE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT LEFT.

MR. SCHERZER, THANK YOU TO YOUR TEAM FOR THE COLOR CODED SHEET, THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL.

SO THANK YOU FOR HEARING THAT OUT.

UM, THAT ANSWERED ONE OF MY LAST QUESTIONS, SO I WANNA ASK IT AGAIN.

MY ONLY QUESTION I HAVE, UM, TO THAT POINT, MR. SAND, WITH INTEREST RATES AS A FINANCIAL ADVISOR, I'VE SEEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, CPI, BUT THEN ALSO WE GET MORE INTEREST ON OUR ASSETS EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE LOWER CAPITAL GAINS IN THE MARKET.

CUZ ONE OF THE WORST, UM, MARKET COLLAPSES IN LAST YEAR COMPARED TO 2008.

BUT I LOOKED AT THE BUDGET AND AGAIN, LOOKING AT LARGE NUMBERS OF INCOME, INVESTMENT INCOME PROJECTED FROM, WELL AUDITED IN 2022 WAS NEGATIVE 2.3, BUDGETED FOR 23 WAS 3.2, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS NOT FINISHED.

AND THEN WE'RE PROPOSING ALMOST 15.4 MILLION IN INVESTMENT INCOME.

IS THAT BEING GENERATED FROM ACCOUNTS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE RESERVE? OR IS THAT INTEREST THAT WE EXPECT? SO, I MEAN, THE RESERVES WOULD BE A PART OF THAT, UM, THAT THAT 15 MILLION NUMBER WOULD BE, UH, WOULD BE LOOKING AT AT, AT ALL, AT ALL, AT ALL FUNDS.

AND SOMETIMES WHAT MAKES INTEREST TOUGH

[03:45:01]

AND KIND OF THE SAME THING THAT HAP SOMETIMES HAPPENS WITH WHEN YOU ARE IN A SITUATION OF, UH, RISING INTEREST RATES IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR HAVE, SO THAT MARK, THE MARKET ISSUE OF YOU DIDN'T REALLY LOSE MONEY, BUT ON PAPER, YOU KNOW, THE VALUE OF THE TREASURIES WENT DOWN.

SO IT IT, IT SHOWS UP AS A, AS A, UM, YOU KNOW, AS, AS A NEGATIVE REVENUE.

UM, SO WE DO HAVE, UM, THAT'S HOW WE'RE, WE'RE REQUIRED BY THE STATE OF MARYLAND TO INVEST OUR, OUR OPERATING MONIES IN, YOU KNOW, VERY SAFE AGAIN, JUST TREASURIES OR, UM, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT POOL.

AND WE HAVE PENSIONS AND OUR OPED FUNDS WHERE WE ARE, ARE ABLE TO INVEST IN MORE LONG-TERM ASSETS.

SO EQUITIES, UM, ALTERNATIVES, UM, AS WELL AS FIXED INCOME, YOU KNOW, AND THOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE REVENUES HAVE BEEN ON A DIFFERENT PROJECTION ON A, ON A DIFFERENT TRAJECTORY, BUT THEY'VE ALSO TAKEN THE HIT BECAUSE OF THE, ALL THE STOCK MARKET DIFFICULTIES, UM, AS WELL.

UM, THANK YOU MR. BENTON.

I, DO YOU FEEL LIKE LAST YEAR IT WAS ADEQUATELY COMMUNICATED THOSE HESITATIONS AND LIKE THE FULL PICTURE OF THE DECISION WAS BEING MADE? OR WAS IT JUST THE POSITIVE, LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO AND WE'RE GONNA CUT TAXES AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I I I THINK THAT THE, THE, THE NEEDS IN THE COMMUNITY WERE REAL AND THE, THE, THE FINANCES WERE, YOU KNOW, RECORD LEVELS OF, OF, OF FUND BALANCE.

UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WAS IT, WAS IT COMMUNICATED IN, IN A LONG TERM WAY? UM, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS NOT.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK IN THE IMMEDIATE, IN THE IMMEDIATE SENSE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A BELIEF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, THE, THE COUNTY HAD NOT, YOU KNOW, HAD, HAD NOT DONE ENOUGH FOR SCHOOLS, HAD NOT DONE ENOUGH FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, HAD NOT DONE, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND HOMEOWNERS WERE SEE WERE, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALS WERE SEEING THEIR, THEIR, UM, THEIR COST OF LIVING, YOU KNOW, INCREASE.

EVERYTHING WAS BECOMING MORE EXPENSIVE.

SO THERE WAS THIS DESIRE TO SAY, HEY, WE CAN'T JUST INCREASE GOVERNMENT BY, UM, UH, WITHOUT GIVING SOMETHING BACK TO, TO THE AVERAGE, TO THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER.

UM, BUT I MEAN, I THINK ULTIMATELY THAT'S A POLITICAL, THAT'S A POLITICAL QUESTION.

UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR JOB, I THINK ON THE, YOU KNOW, WITH FINANCES ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, TO TAKE WHAT, WHAT THE ELECTEDS, YOU KNOW, WANT TO DO, UM, POLICY-WISE AND THEN TRY TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT WORK.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE DO COMMUNICATE TO THEM CONCERNS.

UM, BUT ULTIMATELY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE ROLE OF AN ADVISOR.

UM, AND SO SOME OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AND SOME OF THIS, AS I SAID BEFORE, WAS, YOU KNOW, UH, TRANSFER TRANS TRANSFERATION TAX GOING DOWN SOME OF THE, THE ISSUES WE HAD WITH THE, UM, UH, WITH A LOT OF THAT, UH, CAPITAL GAINS GOING DOWN THIS YEAR, REALLY TOUGH YEAR IN THE MARKET.

UM, ALL OF THAT.

SO IT'S A COMBINATION.

BUT YOU ADVISE US TOO, RIGHT? LIKE YOU ARE AN ADVISOR TO US IN THIS MOMENT THROUGH THE, THE BUDGET PROCESS.

WELL, I MEAN, I, I AM THE, I MEAN, AS THE, AS THE COUNTY'S, AS THE COUNTY'S FINANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, I MEAN, I AM, I AM THE COUNTY'S, YOU KNOW, CHIEF, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, YOU KNOW, BUT OF COURSE, I MEAN, I DO REPORT AND AM APPOINTED BY, BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, AND IT'S A PART OF THE EXECUTIVE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS, YOU KNOW, IS, IS, UM, UM, HE'S THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, BUT HE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, DIRECTLY REPORTS TO THE, TO THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE DO HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, FISCAL, THERE IS FISCAL, UM, FISCAL PEOPLE ON THE, ON, ON THE LEGISLATIVE SIDE AS WELL, WHICH CAN ASSIST IN THAT PROCESS.

MR. ISH, I'LL BE BRIEF.

I SAW YOUR LOOK, SIR.

ALL RIGHT, ROBBIE, ONE MORE TIME HERE AND THEN I'LL, I'M, I'M GONNA STOP.

THE REVENUE.

SO MY QUESTION BECOMES, AND, AND I'VE, I'VE, I'VE GOT OTHER COUNTIES THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO LOOK AT AS WELL.

UM, WE'VE SAID YESTERDAY, YOU SAID YOUR WORDS, IT WAS CONSERVATIVE.

OH, OKAY.

SO LET'S, LET'S JUST GO WITH THAT.

SO I'VE GOT OTHER COUNTIES THAT ARE SMALLER THAN THIS COUNTY THAT ARE DOING THAT, PLUS ALSO GIVING, AND I DON'T WANT OUT THE COUNTY, I'M GONNA ABOUT TO, BUT THEY'RE GIVING A $20 MILLION REFUND.

THIS, WELL, THIS YEAR, THAT WAS THEIR CHOICE TO DO WITH THEIR FUND BALANCE.

FUND BALANCE WE BOTH AGREE WOULD GROW BECAUSE REVENUE, FAR OUT SEATS, EXPENDITURES, BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY INCREASE OUR EXPENDITURES TOO MUCH THROUGHOUT THE YEAR TO, UH, ADDRESS SURPLUS AND REVENUE, WHETHER IT'S BEING HELD AT THE STATE, LIKE, LIKE WE'RE DISCUSSED WITH MR. PENMAN OR, OR IF IT'S ON A ACCRUAL BASIS OR, OR WHATEVER GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTING REVENUE.

THE ONLY WAY TO GROW FUND BALANCE IS TO HAVE ADDITIONAL REVENUE OVER EXPENSES.

SO, YEAH.

WELL, WELL, YES, VERY SIMPLE.

THAT'S ADDITIONAL, ADDITIONAL REVENUE, YOU KNOW, REVENUE, WHATEVER YOUR, WHATEVER YOUR LEVEL OF EXPENDITURE IS.

IF YOUR FUND BALANCE RAISE, YOU HAVE HIGHER REVENUE.

[03:50:01]

SO MY QUESTION BECOMES, WE TALK ABOUT 2.5% WITH SPENDING AFFORDABILITY, THE, UM, COMMITTEE, WHICH A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE ON THAT COMMITTEE LAST YEAR AND NEVER MENTIONED STRUCTURAL DEFICIT UNTIL THE REPORT THIS YEAR.

SO MY QUESTION, YOU DIDN'T HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT UNTIL LAST YEAR EARLY.

WELL, BUT THEY WERE THE, THEY ALSO, OKAY, IT'S FAIR.

THEY ALSO TOLD YOU WHAT LEVEL OF REVENUE WE SHOULD BE EXPECTING LAST YEAR BASED ON.

SO, SO WHEN, WHEN THE COUNTY EXEC, AND THIS IS UNFAIR TO THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, IT'S THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, WHEN THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE PUT FORTH THAT BUDGET IN 2023, AFTER THE SPENDING AFFORDABILITY CREDIT GAVE YOU THEIR NUMBER OF THE REVENUE PERCENTAGE INCREASE, THAT'S WHEN YOU SAW A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

SO THE NUMBER THAT WAS IN THE REVENUES, THE SPENDING AFFORDABILITY COMMITTEE DID LAST YEAR, DID NOT HAVE THE TAX, DID NOT HAVE THE, THE, THE, THE TAX, UM, UH, CUT IN IT MM-HMM.

SO IT WAS A HIGHER REVENUE NUMBER.

UM, BUT THEN THE DECISION TO, TO USE 90 MILLION OF FUND BALANCE IS WHAT ULTIMATELY CAUSES, CAUSES THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

I MEAN, YOU HAD, YOU HAD REVENUE GROWTH OF 7%, UM, EVEN WITH THE TAX AND HAD YOU, HAD YOU NOT CUT THE TAXES, YOU PROBABLY WOULD'VE HAD REVENUE GROWTH OF CLOSER TO 10%.

UM, SO, BUT THEN YOU DO 90 MILLION OF APPROPRIATED FUND BALANCE.

AND I'M GONNA, DO, YOU KNOW, WHAT, UM, HOW MUCH OF APPROPRIATE FUND BALANCE DID WE DO IN FISCAL YEAR 22? I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY, UM, BUT WE DID 90, YOU KNOW, UM, 90 LAST YEAR.

UM, BUT JUST STICK TO THE REVENUE.

SO JUST, I, I UNDERSTAND THE, CUZ THAT'S GROWN OVER YEARS.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING REVENUE YEAR OVER YEAR, WHICH IS WHAT COUNCILMAN PEN WAS GOING AT.

MY QUESTION, THE ROOT OF MY QUESTION HERE IS NOW GONNA BE WITH 2.5% WITH THE SAME SPENDING AFFORDABILITY CREDIT THIS YEAR.

I'VE GOT OTHER SMALLER COUNTIES AT 4.8% IF YOU JUST WANNA USE PROPERTY TAX, EVEN WITH YOUR TAX CUT, THEY ALSO DID THE, A VERY EQUIVALENT TAX CUT LAST YEAR.

SO MY QUESTION BECOMES, IS BACK TO BOND SALE, IS THE BOND SALE TELLING YOU THIS IS WHERE THE REVENUE NEEDS TO BE? BECAUSE IF THERE'S AMENDMENTS BEING PUT FORTH BY EITHER THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE COUNCIL, IS THERE AN APPETITE TO RAISE THE REVENUE PROJECTION THIS YEAR? OR IS THAT SO, SO RAISING, RAISING THE REVENUE? UM, WELL, A COUPLE THINGS.

ONE, THE, SO THE, WHEN THE SPENDING AFFORDABILITY CAME UP WITH THE 2.5, WE DID INCREASE THE REVENUE PROJECTION AFTER THAT.

SO OUR REVENUE PROJECTION AFTER THAT IS CLOSER TO 5% BECAUSE WE BUILT IN THE FEE INCREASES.

UM, AND BECAUSE WE TOOK BACK THE, UM, THE PROPERTY TAX, UM, THE SENIOR VETERAN TAX CREDIT, I HAD A HIGHER AMOUNT BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW HOW MANY INDIVIDUALS WOULD, WOULD APPLY FOR IT.

IT, IT CAME IN, UM, LOWER THAN THAT.

SO THEN I WAS ABLE TO ADJUST THAT AMOUNT.

SO OUR REVENUES ARE ACTUALLY GROWING, UM, CLOSER TO 5%.

IT'S LIKE FOUR, FOUR AND A HALF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

UM, ON A BUDGET TO BUDGET, ON A BUDGET TO BUDGET BASIS, UM, YOU GO BACK TO, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO MAIN REVENUES, THE PROPERTY TAX, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING THAT NUMBER FROM THE STATE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE AWFULLY CLOSE TO WHAT IT IS.

AND THEN ON THE INCOME TAX, YOU KNOW, IT'S, THAT'S WHY I A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE.

IT'S A CONSERVATIVE, IT'S A CONSERVATIVE NUMBER.

SO, OKAY, SO GO INTO BACK TO THAT.

SO FUND BALANCE GROWS BY ANOTHER 20 MILLION NEXT YEAR OVER AND ABOVE THAN, THAN ANY OF THE ASKS THAT HAVE BEEN ASKED FOR MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS.

OH, I'M SORRY.

SO JUST REAL QUICK.

SO IN FISCAL YEAR 22, WE BUDGETED 38.6 MILLION OF FUND BALANCE.

SO WE WENT FROM 38.6 TO 90, AND NOW THIS YEAR WE'RE AT 6 63.

SO I'M, I'M GOOD, MR. I'M GOOD, MR. PRESS, I'M GOOD.

GOOD.

EXCEPTION OR TWO TO THOSE.

ANYONE ELSE, MR. PENMAN? UM, THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED.

I JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON.

UM, YOU SAID, UH, THE PROJECTIONS FOR THIS, THIS LAST YEAR WHEN THE USE OF THE FUND BALANCE AND THE, AND THE CUTS WERE MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU SAW SOME OF IT, UM, BUT AT THE END YOU WEREN'T THE DECISION MAKER.

UH, BUT SOME OF IT WAS ON, ON, ON FOR SCENE.

SO I GUESS MY, I HAVE A KIND OF A DIRECT QUESTION.

UM, WAS IT DETECTED THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A STRUCTURAL DE DEFICIT AND WAS IT CONVEYED TO THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION THAT WE WERE IN, WE WERE GONNA BE IN BAD SHAPE? YEAH, IT WAS CONVEYED THAT WE, YEAH, WE, THAT WE WERE SPENDING, WE HAD MORE ONGOING SPENDING THAN WE HAD ONGOING REVENUES.

SO, UM, THAT WAS, YES, WE HAD THAT, WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD MORE ONGOING.

AND AGAIN, WHEN YOU HAD 90 MILLION OF FUND BALANCE, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU AND YOU AND YOU REDUCE THE TAXES, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE CREATING THAT.

AND TO SOME EXTENT HOW WE'RE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, YOU, HOW WE'RE MOSTLY HANDLING THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT HERE IS BY MAINTAINING LARGELY KIND OF FLAT, FLAT BUDGETS, MOSTLY ALL, ALL AROUND, TO ALLOW THOSE REVENUES TO CATCH UP TO THE, UM, TO ALLOW THOSE REVENUES TO CATCH UP TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO TO, TO THE REVENUES.

AND I KNOW THERE ARE, THERE IS AN

[03:55:01]

UM, SO I THINK THE, THE CHALLENGE BECAME, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DID THE INCREASE LAST YEAR, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THE ASK FOR ARE, ARE GOING TO BE THIS YEAR.

BUT WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, SO YOU, YOU FUND THAT AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT, OKAY, WELL THE SCHOOL IS GONNA ASK FOR 20, $20 MILLION MORE THAT THE SHERIFF IS GOING TO ASK FOR, UM, ADDITIONAL POSITIONS AND ADDITIONAL FUNDING THAT THE LIBRARY IS GONNA ASK FOR, UM, SIGNIFICANT MORE.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE, THAT'S ONE OF THE REAL CHALLENGES.

ALL THE TIMES OF, OF FORWARD, OF, OF LOOKING, OF LOOKING FORWARD.

IT'S LIKE, OKAY, CAN WE AFFORD THAT LEVEL OF SPENDING? YEAH, IF WE HOLD BUDGETS FLAT.

BUT THAT'S WHERE WE COME IN AND WE SAY, LOOK, IT'S PROBABLY NOT REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT BUDGETS CAN BE HELD FLAT, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A COLA OR YOU NEED TO CONTINUE TO, UM, HAVE, UM, HIGHER, HIGHER, UH, ADDITIONAL POSITIONS OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY LENDO CAUSES THIS, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S, WHAT SHOULD BE YOUR NORMAL LEVEL OF GROWTH ON A YEAR BY YEAR BASIS.

UM, SO TO SOME EXTENT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ADDRESSING THE STRUCTURAL DEFICIT BY JUST HOLDING BUDGETS, YOU KNOW, BUDGETS FLAT.

UM, AND EVENTUALLY WE WILL CREATE A NEW LEVEL.

UM, AND THEN FROM THERE WE CAN HOPEFULLY GO BACK TO, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR, YOU KNOW, FOUR AND A HALF KIND OF PERCENT INCREASES INTO OUR, INTO OUR BUDGETS.

UM, BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, BUDGET WENT UP 14% LAST YEAR, AND THEN WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE TAX CUT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT'S EFFECTIVELY EVEN MORE THAT'S KIND OF LIKE THE EQUIVALENT OF A, OF TWO OR THREE BUDGET GROWTHS.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE, LIKE WE GREW THE BUDGET, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, MORE IN ONE YEAR THAN WE NORMALLY WOULD'VE OVER TWO OR THREE, THREE YEARS.

UM, AND SO IT'S NOT A SUSTAINABLE PATH.

SO TO THAT END, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, BUT IT'S PROBABLY DIFFICULT TO THINK THOUGH, THAT YOU COULD JUST CON THAT YOU COULD JUST HOLD BUDGETS FLAT.

UM, SO, OKAY.

UM, TWO MORE QUESTIONS.

UM, JUST, I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE THAT ONE.

PROJECTED ADDITIONAL FEES.

NOW WE'VE HAD THE TIPPING FEE.

WE'VE HAD THE 9 1 1 FEE, UH, TIPPING FEE IS GONNA BE VOTED ON SOON.

UM, WE HAD A PUBLIC HEARING ON TUESDAY.

UH, I I MAYBE AN EMS FEE COMING AS WELL.

AND TO A LARGE EXTENT, THE, UM, THE AMBULANCE FEE IS US, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LOOKING AT WHAT THE, UM, UH, WHAT THE, UM, VOLUNTEERS WERE BRINGING IN FROM BILLING.

AND NOW THAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING IT, WE KIND OF ADDED THAT ON.

NOW, THERE IS LEGISLATION TO INCREASE THE FEES.

AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS PRIOR, YOU KNOW, MORE AT THE PUBLIC, AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.

RIGHT NOW, OUR AMBULANCE FEES ARE TIED TO THE MEDICARE RATE.

UM, THE MEDICARE RATE IS WHAT MEDICARE WILL PAY, BUT IT IS OFTENTIMES LESS THAN WHAT PRIVATE INSURANCE WOULD PAY.

SO YOU EVER, LIKE, WE EVER GO TO THE DOCTOR, LIKE, YOU NOTICE HOW YOU'LL SEE YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT HAVE CHARGED $500, BUT THEN IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, CARE FIRST ALLOWABLE $300.

SO IF WE WERE CHARGING NOW, IF, IF WE WERE DOING THAT WITH AN AMBULANCE AND IF, UM, THE, THE AMBULANCE FEE WAS LESS THAN WHAT CARE FIRST WOULD'VE PAID, WELL, CARE FIRST ISN'T GONNA JUST GIVE US THE EXTRA MONEY.

SO WHAT WE HOPE TO DO WITH CHANGING, YOU KNOW, BY PUTTING, UM, A SUPPLEMENT ONTO THE, UM, UH, AMBULANCE FEES IS TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT LEAVING MONEY ON THE TABLE, THAT WE'RE NOT PROVIDING THE DISCOUNT TO, TO, UM, PRIVATE INSURERS THAT IS LESS THAN WHAT THEY OTHERWISE WOULD PAY.

AND NOT SO MUCH THAT I THINK IT'S GONNA MEAN OUT OF POCKET FOR THE AVERAGE INDIVIDUAL.

UM, SO, BUT FROM A BUDGET STANDPOINT, YOU LARGELY WE'RE TALKING JUST ABOUT US ABSORBING THE FEES FROM THE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANIES THAT THEY USED TO BE COLLECTING.

NOW WE'RE GONNA COLLECT, AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO MORE OF THIS ON TUESDAY.

WHAT WE DID THEN WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANIES IS WE SAID, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE ABSORBING THE BILLING.

YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN BEEN BANKING ON, NO PUN INTENDED, THAT THOSE FEES, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ORDER TO PAY BILLS IN THE LIKE NEXT YEAR.

SO WE SAID WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WE'RE GONNA KIND OF GIVE YOU A SUPPLEMENTAL GRANT IN ADDITION TO YOUR NORMAL VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY TO KIND OF MAKE YOU WHOLE FROM THAT LOST BILLING FOR NEXT YEAR.

AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT FUTURE YEARS.

UH, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY HAVE COMMITMENTS, THEY MAY HAVE BILLS THAT THEY WERE PLANNING ON THAT MONEY.

UM, AND SO IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A WASH, BUT FROM A BUDGET STANDPOINT, THE FEE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE INCREASED FEES, IF YOU WILL, FEE BUDGETED REVENUE BY 12 MILLION, WHICH IS 3 MILLION FOR THE 9 1 1 3 MILLION FOR THE AMBULANCE BILLION AND 6 MILLION FOR THE TIP FEE.

DO YOU PROJECT ANY MORE FEE INCREASES? UH, THERE ARE NO OTHER FEE INCREASES THAT, UM, HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, UM, THAT DEFINITELY NOT FOR THIS, UH, FOR THIS UPCOMING BUDGET YEAR.

BUT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA OF OF, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT FEES AND WHERE IS THAT BALANCE BETWEEN USER FEES, YOU KNOW, LIKE BUILDING PERMITS, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD THAT BALANCE BE BETWEEN WHAT THE TAXPAYER PAYS AND WHAT THE, THE USER FEE,

[04:00:01]

UM, PAYS.

CUZ THE LEVEL OF SERVICE IS GONNA BE THE SAME.

THAT'S LIKE, LIKE, LIKE WITH THE SOLID WASTE, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA PAY BALTIMORE COUNTY WHATEVER COSTS TO TIP TO, TO, UH, TO, TO DO THE TRASH.

SO IF WE DON'T RAISE THAT FEE, THAT DOESN'T MAKE THAT COST GO AWAY, IT JUST MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT WITH, WITH TAX DOLLARS.

SO RIGHT NOW, I DON'T EXPECT ANY OTHER FEE INCREASES, BUT I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THOSE, AND WE'VE SAID BEFORE, WE ALREADY NEED, WE ARE GONNA NEED TO DO SOMETHING WHEN IT COMES TO THE STORM WATER ISSUE.

UM, EVENTUALLY THAT RECORDATION NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO BE, IS NOT GONNA BE SUFFICIENT.

NOW, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A FEE UNLESS YOU, UNLESS YOU WERE TO ENACT A RATING TAX FEE, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

NO.

UM, SO THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE ON.

UM, SO WE WOULD NEED TO FIND SOME TYPE OF, OF REVENUE SOURCE FOR THAT.

SO, AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS, GOES BACK TO, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE, THESE ARE YOUR NEEDS, THESE ARE YOUR REVENUES, HOW DO YOU MAKE THEM EQUAL? THANK YOU, MR. SAND.

I THINK WITH THAT, UH, WE'RE GONNA LET MR. SANDS TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A BREATHER , AND WE'RE GONNA PICK ON MR. BLOMQUIST NEXT .

OH, NO, I CAN, I, WELL, I MEAN, I CAN, I MEAN, I CAN, HERE I'LL JUST, WE CAN TAKE HIM, WE CAN TAKE A BREAK.

SHORT BREAK IF YOU'D LIKE.

LET'S, OKAY.

YEAH, I'LL, I'LL COME OVER HERE AND I'LL GET REARRANGED AND IT, AND IT SHOULDN'T TAKE LONG.

SHUT THAT MIC OFF.

SHUT THE MICS OFF.

WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK.

[04:05:16]

SO I'VE JUST BEEN TOLD THAT WE'RE RUNNING AN HOUR OVER.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT.

BUT I WANT TO THANK, UH, ROBBIE FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ASKED AND APPRECIATE YOU, UH, FIELD HIM AS BEST AS YOU DID AS YOU DID.

UM, SO THAT MEANS, JEFF, THAT WE'RE GONNA BLOW THROUGH YOU REALLY QUICK, I THINK, AS WELL AS EVERYBODY BEHIND YOU TO STAY ON TIME.

AND, AND THAT MAKES ME VERY HAPPY.

I'M SURE IT DOES .

I'M SURE IT DOES.

SO, UH, AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE, I'M HERE FOR YOU, YOU KNOW, SO, UM, SERIOUSLY, UM, WE'RE GONNA GO TO LAW NEXT.

UH, APPRECIATE, UH, MR. BLOMQUIST.

I'M SORRY, I DON'T, THIS IS JEANETTE PERRY TO MY LEFT.

YOUR RIGHT, JEANETTE STARTED THE LAST WEEK OF, UH, MARCH WITH US.

SHE IS MY OFFICE MANAGER.

SHE'S MY PARALEGAL AND SHE'S MY ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT.

AND SO OBVIOUSLY SHE KEEPS THE TRAIN UNDER GRASS AND I'VE HEARD HER NAME A LOT, SO, UH, HERE OF LATE.

SO NICE TO MEET YOU.

THANK .

ALRIGHT, SO LAW, LAW IS ON PAGE, UH, STARTS ON PAGE ONE.

UM, 1, 1 98, 1 97, 1 98.

YOU'LL SEE A, UM, OVERALL DECREASE OF $40,000.

UH, THERE ARE PROPOSED BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR 24 AS, UH, 2,855,000, UM, IN POSITIONS, UM, AND POSITIONS.

UH, BUT THERE'S ALSO LEGAL SERVICES AND, UH, LAW ENFORCEMENT BOARDS AND RISK MANAGEMENT, UM, AS WELL.

NUMBER THANKS, ROBBIE.

UM, SO JEFF, REAL QUICK, UH, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL MY COLLEAGUES HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S COMING AS FAR AS MAYBE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, I'D LIKE YOU TO TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LET THE, MAKE THEM AWARE OF THAT.

Y YES, JUST VERY BRIEFLY.

I, I, I, I WANTED TO BRING ON, I WANTED TO BRING BEFORE THE COUNCIL A REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL OUTSIDE COUNSEL WERE LAW ENFORCEMENT, POLICE LIABILITY, CORRECTIONAL SERVICES, AND ALSO, UH, PERHAPS FOR EMPLOYMENT LAW CASES, ALL LITIGATION.

UH, IT'S THE, THE, THE FIRM IS, UH, KAPINSKY CORN, BLA AND CARP.

DAN CARPERS LARGELY RETIRED.

THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK FOR OVER THREE DECADES, REALLY, REALLY FOUR DECADES FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND FOR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT INSURANCE TRUST.

I'VE WORKED WITH THEM ON CASES, YOU KNOW, WHERE I'VE HAD AN OFFICER WHO GOT A RESERVATION OF RIGHTS AND THEY'VE HAD, THEY'VE HAD THE, UH, LOCAL GOVERNMENT SLASH AGENCY.

UH, THEY SPECIALIZE IN THIS WORK.

THE RATES ARE A LITTLE BIT BELOW THE RATES.

UH, THE ACTUALLY FAIRLY SIGNIFICANTLY BLOOD, THE RATES THAT WE'RE GETTING FROM ROSENBERG, MARTIN AND GREENBERG, AND I DON'T WANT TO TOTALLY ABANDON ROSEN, MARTIN BERG AND GREENBERG, THEY HAVE SOME EXPERTISE THAT, THAT, UH, KAPINSKY KORN BLACK AND CARP DON'T HAVE.

BUT CARIN KAPINSKY, KORN BLACK AND CARP ARE EXPERTISE.

THAT'S ALL THEY DO REALLY IS POLICE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, CORRECTIONAL OFFICER, AND EMPLOYMENT LITIGATION.

THEY RUN THE EMPLOYMENT HOTLINE FOR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT INSURANCE TRUST.

PROBABLY THREE WEEKS AGO NOW, I, UH, DROPPED OFF A PACKET TO THE SHERIFF AND, UH, MS. LAMBERT SAID THAT THEY WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, YOU KNOW, TO LOOK OVER THE APPLICATION, TO TALK, TALK TO THEIR FRIENDS IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY CUZ THEY'VE WORKED WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT MARYLAND.

THEY'VE BEEN IN VIRTUALLY ALL MARYLAND COURTS.

THEY'RE EXPERTS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT JURIES ARE DOING AND, AND WHAT'S HAPPENING, PARTICULARLY IN FEDERAL COURT, WHICH IS VERY HELPFUL BECAUSE THE LI THIS LITIGATION HAS SHIFTED FROM STATE COURT BACK TO FEDERAL COURT.

NOW, THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS LARGELY GONE IN FEDERAL COURT, AND YOU CAN GET YOUR FEES IN FEDERAL COURT.

SO I I, I'D LIKE TO COME BEFORE THE COUNCIL, AND I WOULD LIKE TO, LIKE TO BRING THEM ON AS, AS ONE OF THE, THE ATTORNEYS THAT WE CAN USE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE, FOR THE LARGE CASES WHERE WE, WE STILL HAVEN'T REBUILT TO, TO THE POINT WHERE WE WANT TO HANDLE THOSE CASES.

ALSO, GIVEN THE ELECTRONIC DISCOVERY AND, AND ALL THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE AND THE COMPLICATIONS THAT ADD ADDS TO THIS LITIGATION, YOU'RE GEARED UP TO DO THAT.

NO, I APPRECIATE THAT.

SO I WANTED YOU TO BE ABLE TO BRING IT UP TODAY AND, AND IF YOU WOULD SET UP, UH, MEETINGS WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MR. KEARNEY, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

UH, THE SOONER THE BETTER.

I DID ALSO, UH, REVIEW THAT PACKET WITH THE SHERIFF AND, UH, ALSO, UH, CAN YOU SPEAK TO MR. BUTAN AS WELL? YE YE YES.

I'VE SPOKEN TO MR. BUTAN, HE'S ACTUALLY COMING IN TOMORROW.

WE ARE GETTING UP TO SPEED WITH THE WHOLE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY LEGISLATION.

MR. BUTAN WOULD BE RETAINED ON A CONTRACT BASIS.

HE'S A FORMER, UH, JU HE'S A FORMER COUNTY

[04:10:01]

ATTORNEY.

HE'S ALSO A FORM FORMER JUDGE FOR THE DISTRICT COURT HERE IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO HE'S, YOU KNOW, HE'S FAMILIAR WITH THE ISSUES AS, AS WELL AS MEETING THE REQUIREMENT OF WHO HAS TO RESIDE OVER THE TRIAL BOARDS FOR POLICE DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE BROUGHT BY THE DEPARTMENT OR WHETHER THEY'RE BROUGHT THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE CHARGING COMMITTEE.

SO I'D LIKE TO, I'D, I'D LIKE TO CONTRACT WITH HIM, BRING HIM ON TO DO THAT.

UH, WE, HE, HE WOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE ALSO TO THE, TO THE MUNICIPALITIES.

I BELIEVE THAT, I BELIEVE THE MUNICIPALITIES WOULD PAY HIS FEE IF, IF, IF IT'S A MUNICIPAL CHARGE, WE WOULD PAY HIS FEE IF IT'S ADMINISTRATIVE CHARGING COMMITTEE CHARGE OR, OR A SHERIFF'S OFFICE CHARGE.

AND, AND SO I WANT TO BRING HIM ON BOARD AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME CASES THAT ARE BAGGED UP AND, AND WE NEED TO KEEP THAT PROCESS MOVING.

AND THEN I, I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY WHILE I HAVE YOU, MS. FOLEY, MR. MCCORD, YOU AND MS. PERRY TOGETHER IN THE SAME ROOM WITH MS. DIXON AND MR. KEARNEY, I WANNA MAKE SURE IN THE FUTURE ANY LEGISLATION THAT YOU BRING FORWARD WITH THE AGEN FOR THE AGENDA TO BE CONSIDERED, THAT YOU HAVE ALL DOCUMENTATION WITH IT AT THAT TIME, SO THAT THERE'S NOT A DELAY IN TRYING TO GET OUR PACKETS TOGETHER FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS SO THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS PROPOSED FOR THE NEXT AGENDA.

NOW, I I, I APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE GONNA WORK, TRY TO WORK HARDER AND BETTER ON THAT.

AND, AND MR. KEARNEY IS GRACIOUSLY OFFERED TO MAKE SURE WE STAY IN LINE AND, AND TO HELP US IF, IF WE MISSED SOMETHING , JUST, JUST FOR THE RECORD, THAT'S ALL.

NO, I, WELL, I APPRECIATE THAT.

YES, SIR.

I DON'T KNOW, KEEP IN LINE.

BUT, BUT THE HELP WITH IT JUST KEEPS EVERYTHING RUNNING MUCH SMOOTHER, NOT ONLY FOR YOUR SIDE OF THE STREET, BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR OUR SIDE OF THE STREET, AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

AND WE WANT TO DO THAT.

BE $30,000 IF, IF WE TRIED THE CASE.

MR. PENMAN, UH, MR. BLOOMQUIST, UH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

UH, THANK YOU.

UM, I, I JUST WANNA SAY I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE BRINGING IN AN OUTSIDE FIRM, UH, ON A CONTRACTUAL BASIS TO HELP WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

UM, IT'S, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED, COMPLEX, UH, THING WITH A LOT OF THINGS GETTING PASSED FROM ANNAPOLIS.

SO TO HAVE THOSE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS ON HAND, I THINK WILL BE VERY, VERY VALUABLE TO THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE OUT THERE ON THE STREET.

SO I I, I DO APPRECIATE THAT.

AND AS FAR AS, UH, JUDGE BUTAN, UH, DOES A GREAT JOB FOR OUR COUNTY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

I THINK HE'LL BE A, A GREAT, UH, FIT, UM, FOR THE DIFFERENT TRIAL BOARDS THAT ARE GONNA TAKE PLACE.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT, UH, AND FULL SUPPORT.

UH, BUT I DID HAVE JUST ONE QUESTION ABOUT CONTRACTING OUT, BECAUSE I THINK THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAD MENTIONED THAT THEY WERE GONNA TRY TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN-HOUSE, UM, THAT TRIAL ATTORNEYS WERE GONNA BE IN-HOUSE IN THE LAW DEPARTMENT.

SO HAS THAT MENTALITY CHANGED AND CAN WE LOOK FOR DIFFERENT CONTRACTUAL BASIS, CONTRACTING BASIS WITH DIFFERENT ATTORNEY GROUPS GOING FORWARD? LET, LET, UH, LET ME ANSWER IT THIS WAY.

SO FIRST OF ALL, WE JUST HIRED AND, AND JUST STARTED THIS MONDAY, ANOTHER LITIGATION COUNCIL.

IT'S A GENTLEMAN WHO, WHO NORTH HARTFORD, UH, GRADUATE LIVING IN FALLSTON, HAS WORKED FOR THE BALTIMORE COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF LAW FOR ABOUT 12 YEARS, I BELIEVE.

UH, JUST STARTED WITH US THIS MONDAY.

AS AS LITIGATION COUNCIL, WE, WE ARE LOOKING TO BRING IN THE PERSONAL INJURY, THE SLIP AND FALLS, UH, AND, AND, AND THE STATE COURT LITIGATION, AND TO HANDLE THAT OURSELVES, WHERE, WHERE WE ARE NOT AT A POINT WHERE WE CAN HAND, WE ARE NOT AT A POINT WHERE WE CAN HANDLE ALL LITIGATION.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, I, THE, THE ONE AREA, AND I'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH COUNTY EXECUTIVE, WHERE IT MAY NOT BE ADVANTAGEOUS FOR US TO GET TO THAT POINT, IS WHEN WE HAVE CASES WITH A LOT OF ELECTRONIC DISCOVERY, BECAUSE THAT, THAT TAKES A DIFFERENT KIND OF RESOURCE AND IT, AND, AND IT, IT CAN BE A, A, A SIGNIFICANT TIME SUCK.

UH, AND THAT'S GENERALLY THE FEDERAL LITIGATION.

IT'S QUITE OFTEN THE POLICE, UH, LI AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICER LIABILITY LITIGATION, BECAUSE THAT LITIGATION HAS ALL THE BODY CAM, IT HAS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S GOT ALL THE, UH, CAD STUFF FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY SERVICES.

SO THAT, THAT IS THE KIND OF LITIGATION THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE, I THINK, WISE AND BENEFICIAL TO HAVE OUTSIDE HELP.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE BRINGING A LOT IN AND, AND, AND WE'RE GONNA DO A LOT IN, IN FACT, WE HAVE A, A FEDERAL CASE EMPLOYMENT LAW CASE.

I THINK WE'RE GONNA HANDLE THAT.

SO WE ARE, WE ARE RETURNING TO OUR LITIGATION CAPABILITY.

I, I INITIALLY, YOU KNOW, WORKED FOR 11 YEARS FOR THE COUNTY, STARTING IN 1988 WHEN THEY BECAME SELF-INSURED AND BUILT LITIGATION ABILITY.

AND, AND I THINK CERTAINLY FOR THE PERSONAL INJURY, THE SLIP AND FALSE THING, THINGS OF THAT NATURE WHERE WE COULD PAY OUTSIDE COUNSEL, $30,000 OR LIABILITY EXPOSURE COULD

[04:15:01]

AND, AND THAT'S JUST AN INVITATION, YOU KNOW, FOR PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS TO HIT US FOR SETTLEMENTS BECAUSE IT'S GONNA COST US AS MUCH TO LITIGATE THE CASE AS IT IS TO, TO SETTLE THE CASE.

SO ON THOSE TYPE OF CASES, WE DEFINITELY WANT TO BUILD BACK OUR IN-HOUSE LI OUR IN-HOUSE LITIGATION ABILITY SO THAT WHEN WE HAVE THE, THOSE KINDS OF SOFT TISSUE INJURY CASES WITH NO REAL CLEAR CUT MEDICALS AND, AND, AND, AND SOMETIMES NOT EVEN WITH CLEAR CUT LIABILITY, SOMETIMES WITH CLEAR CUT LIABILITY, WE CERTAINLY WANT TO BUILD THE CAPABILITY TO HANDLE THOSE OURSELVES.

WE ARE BUILDING THAT CAPABILITY.

IN FACT, I THINK WE NOW HAVE THAT CAPABILITY AND MOVING FORWARD, THAT'S HOW WE'LL HANDLE THOSE TYPES OF CASES.

DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, VACANCIES NOW IN YOUR DEPARTMENT? YES, WE DO.

WE HAVE, WE HAVE ONE ATTORNEY VACANCY STILL THAT WE HAVE TO FILL.

AND IS THE SALARY AN ISSUE? I KNOW, CUZ YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA RAISE THE SALARY TO ATTRACT THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST, ESPECIALLY SPEC, YOU KNOW, SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS IN WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GENERATE THE LAWYER FROM.

IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT'S HOLDING A BACK OR NO, NO, IT'S, IT, IT'S SIMPLY A GROWTH THING.

IN OTHER WORDS, I I, I HAVE ATTORNEYS THAT STARTED THIS WEEK.

I HAVE AN ATTORNEY THAT'S STARTING IN TWO WEEKS.

WE, WE GOTTA CLEAR OUT SPACE.

I'VE, I'VE ALSO, AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR NUMBERS, WE HAD A ONE PERSON RISK MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT.

WE NOW HAVE A A THREE PERSON RISK MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT.

WE'VE HAD TWO NEW ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, ASSISTANT SLASH MY OFFICE MANAGER COME ON.

SO IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF YOU CAN'T BRING ALL THESE PEOPLE ON AT ONE TIME.

YOU, YOU NEED TO BRING THEM IN SO THAT WE CAN GET THEM RUNNING QUICKLY, TRAIN THEM, UH, AND, AND GET THEM UP TO SPEED TO BE PRODUCTIVE AND, AND WE JUST CAN'T DO IT.

WE COULDN'T DO IT ALL AT ONCE.

I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY.

THANK YOU MR. GUTHRIE.

UH, JUST CHECK THESE FIGURES OUT.

UH, I UNDERSTAND THE COUNCIL ATTORNEY'S PEOPLE'S COUNCIL BUDGET FOR 2020 FOURS IS $575,703 AND IT'S AN ADDITION OF, UH, $256,469.

IS THAT THE MONEY THAT'S GONE FOR TO, UH, PAY FOR THIS ADDITIONAL THAT'S, THAT'S THE COUNCIL BUDGET, THAT'S WHY.

WELL, BUT YOU'RE INCREASING THE COUNCIL'S BUDGET.

UM, THAT'S FOR A LEGISLATIVE DRAFTER.

THAT'S NOT A FUR ACROSS THE STREET.

ANYONE ELSE? ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD.

THANK, THANK YOU, SIR.

VERY MUCH NICE TO MEETING YOU MS. BEAR.

YOU WAS WELCOME, MS. HOPE.

UH, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WELL, KAREN, TAKE HER SEAT IS LOCATED ON PAGES, UH, 5 96 THROUGH 6 84.

WE'LL SEE, UH, THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT HAS A DECREASE OF JUST SHY OF 4000002.9, UH, 3.9 MILLION.

UM, PROPOSED BUDGET FOR, UH, 50 OR 24 IS $4.7 MILLION.

UH, BUT MOST OF THIS IS DUE TO THE TRANSFER OF HOUSING, TO ITS OWN HOUSING AND TRANSIT, UM, HOUSING TO ITS OWN DEPARTMENT AND TRANSIT TO COMMUNITY, UM, SERVICES.

UM, FURTHER, UM, UH, FURTHER CHANGES IN THEIR, UH, OFFICE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INCREASE OF, UH, 577,000.

UH, THAT IS LARGELY, UH, DUE TO, UM, SOME POSITION CHANGES, UM, FOLLOWING THE TOURISM, UH, TOURISM AND MARKETING, UM, WITH A, UH, PROPOSED BUDGET OF, UH, 2 MILLION A, UH, DECREASE OF, UH, UH, 2.9 MILLION.

THAT IS, AGAIN, YOU JUST TRANSFERS THERE.

ANYTHING YOU WANNA SPEAK TO FIRST BEFORE WE START? JUST THAT SEPARATING THE TWO OFFICES HAS ALLOWED US TO REALLY FOCUS ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SPECIFICALLY.

WE ARE VERY MUCH, UM, UM, A PEOPLE DEPARTMENT AND OUR STAFFING AS A PRIMARY PIECE OF OUR, UM, OUR EXPERIENCE AND OUR OUTREACH.

UM, WE HAVE FOUR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATES NOW THAT ALLOW US TO COVER THE, THE, UH, THE FULL COUNTY AND, UH, FOCUS IN ON SECTOR ACTIVITY.

UM, EXPERIENCE THERE IS REALLY STRONG, UM, RANGING FROM, UM, THREE YEARS TO 18 YEARS.

UM, BUT, UH, I, I DO BELIEVE THAT WITH THE FOCUS ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IT'S GONNA ALLOW US TO, TO REALLY REACH OUT BOTH IN TERMS OF OUR RETENTION STRATEGIES AS WELL AS ATTRACTION.

SECRET, UM, BECAUSE I TOLD THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE TWICE YESTERDAY AND MR. MCCORD AND OTHERS, AND MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS IN THE TOURISM SECTOR.

UM, SO FOR ME, IT'S NO

[04:20:01]

UM, WE'VE GOT MANY, MANY CALLS, EMAILS OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS MONTH IN REFERENCE TO THE TOURISM APPLICATIONS, THE TOURISM PROCESS, UH, THE WAY THE MONEY'S GONNA BE USED, UH, FROM WHAT WE'RE HEARING, HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING DEFINITE.

AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS THAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE, FOR SOME REASON, OUR TOURISM PARTNERS DON'T HAVE A CONNECTION OR A CONTACT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE.

SO MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU IS, IF ONE OF THESE TOURISM PARTNERS HAVE A QUESTION, WHO DO THEY CALL? SO WE HAVE ADVERTISED OUR OFFICE.

WE HAVE FOUR PEOPLE TRAINED IN, BUT WHO DO THEY CALL? IS WHAT I'M ASKING YOU.

WHO DO THEY SPEAK TO? LISA KREK HAS BEEN OUR POINT PERSON.

UM, IF THERE'S QUESTIONS REGARDING ACCESS ONLINE, WHO'S BEEN OVERSEEING THE DATABASE OR ANY TECHNICAL PIECES THERE, BONNIE BREI.

BUT WE HAVE ALL CROSS-TRAINED, WE ALL SHARE THE, UM, FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS THAT ARE COMING IN, POSTING THOSE ONLINE.

I'M WORKING ON A PRESS RELEASE NOW TO GO OUT THAT ADVERTISES TWO WORKSHOPS WHERE WE'LL ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS WITH ANY ENTITY THAT'S INTERESTED.

SO WHAT IS THE TIMELINE FOR ME AS COUNCIL PRESIDENT OR MY COLLEAGUES AS A MEMBER OF THIS COUNCIL? WHEN DO WE SEE A LIST OF APPROVED RECIPIENTS OF THE TOURISM TAX? SO THE APPLICATION PROCESS WILL END APRIL 13TH.

THE SUBMISSION FOR APPLICATIONS WILL CLOSE ON MAY 12TH.

12TH.

IT WILL GO TO, UM, THE TART COMMITTEE WITHIN OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD FOR REVIEW, MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

WE ANTICIPATE YOU SHOULD SEE THAT BY MAY 25TH.

AND THEN 3.4 MILLION IS WHAT WE RECEIVED IN TYPICALLY IN TOURISM MONEY IN THE TAX.

SO I CAN SPEAK TO THE 2 MILLION THAT'S ALLOCATED IN, IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

SO IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S IT'S AROUND THREE.

YES, CORRECT.

IT'S, IT'S AROUND 3 MILLION, UM, FOR HOW MUCH WE RECEIVE FROM, UH, THE HOTEL TAX.

OF COURSE, THE CITY OF ABERDEEN, UM, GENERALLY GETS AROUND 700,000 OR, OR THEREABOUTS IN THE CITY OF, UM, CAVITY GRACE, UH, GETS AROUND 50,000 OR, OR, OR OR SO BECAUSE THEY RECEIVE HALF OF, UM, THE 6% TAX.

SO, UH, THEY RECEIVED 3%.

UH, FOR ANY OF THE HOTELS LOCATED IN THEIR MUNICIPAL BOUNDARIES, THERE ARE NO HOTELS IN BEL AIR.

SO IN THE ONE MEETING THAT I SAT IN, UH, BRIEFLY, THERE WAS SOME TALK ABOUT TAKING TOURISM DOLLARS AND SPENDING ON WHAT I THINK SOMEONE REFERRED TO AS CURB APPEAL.

CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU THINK CURB APPEAL'S GONNA PUT HEADS IN BEDS? CERTAINLY.

UM, ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT CAME UP IN, UM, MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WAS THE IDEA OF APPROACHING, UH, OUR INTERCHANGE.

WHEN YOU COME OFF, UM, AN EXIT ON FROM 95 AND YOU APPROACH OUR HOTELS, THAT SOME OF THOSE INTERCHANGES ARE RUN DOWN, OVERGROWN, NOT VERY APPEALING.

AND WE'VE HEARD FIRSTHAND, UH, FROM FOLKS IN THE AREA THAT THEY TAKE THE NEXT EXIT BECAUSE OF, OF THAT APPEARANCE.

IF WE CAN HAVE THAT BE MORE INVITING AND WELCOMING, THAT'S A DIRECT CORRELATION WITH BEING ABLE TO GET PEOPLE INTO THE HOTELS.

IS THAT THE PROPER WAY TO SPEND THAT MONEY THOUGH? I THOUGHT THAT MONEY WAS TO STAND UP OUR TOURISM PARTNERS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.

THE OVERARCHING GOAL COMING FROM A CONVERSATION WITH OUR TASK FORCE, WHICH WAS CHARGED BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, WAS TO DRIVE OVERNIGHT.

NO, I'M ASKING YOU AS A DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE PROPER WAY TO SPEND THAT MONEY? BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TALKING $2 MILLION AND I HEARD THE FIGURE WAS LIKE 15% OF THE 2 MILLION WILL GO TO CURB APPEAL.

WE'RE GONNA SPEND $300,000 PLANTING FLOWERS.

SO I THINK IT IS SCALABLE.

IT IS DEFINITELY A LOWER AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT I DO THINK THAT APPEARANCE IS A DRIVER THERE.

IF PEOPLE DO NOT STAY IN OUR HOTELS, EVEN IF THEY SPEND TIME DURING THE DAY, WE SEE $98 SPENT FOR DAY TRIPPERS IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

WE SEE $1,200 SPENT FOR THOSE WHO COMMIT TO AN OVERNIGHT STAY HERE.

SO IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT.

UM, WE'VE RECOGNIZED OUR TARGET MARKETS ARE COMING FROM NEW YORK, PHILADELPHIA, AND WASHINGTON, DC THERE'S AN EXPECTATION IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY EXPERIENCE AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S, THAT'S WELCOMING AND WE'RE ABLE TO KEEP THEM.

THE AVERAGE PERSON STAYS 1.8 DAYS IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

JUST GETTING THEM OVER THAT MARK TO TWO MAKES A SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC IMPACT.

MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

I MEAN, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A TOURISM MARKET FOR OVER 40 YEARS AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PLANTING FLOWERS AT THE INTERSTATE ON STATE PROPERTY OR AT A HOTEL WOULD BRING MORE PEOPLE TO STAY THERE.

I JUST THINK THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT MONEY AND CONTINUE TO STAND UP YOUR TOURISM PARTNERS BECAUSE WHEN THEY'RE HERE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN AMENITIES TO KEEP 'EM HERE TWO

[04:25:01]

DAYS, NOT FLOWERS.

SO THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

I I APPRECIATE THAT.

AND I KNOW THAT COUNCILMAN GUTHRIE WANTS TO GET MORE SPENDING INTO HIS DISTRICT.

I DON'T THINK HE WANTS IT IN FLOWERS.

HE MAY, BUT I DON'T THINK SO.

SO I JUST HAD TO SAY THAT, UH, I SAID THE SAME THING TO MR. MCCORD HAS SAID THE SAME THING TO THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

AND, AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY I FEEL AND I'M GETTING THAT FROM MANY OF OUR PARTNERS IN THE INDUSTRY ACROSS THE COUNTY.

UM, SO I JUST, I WANTED YOU TO HEAR THAT FROM ME.

UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, MR. BENNETT, I MEAN, I WAS JUST NODDING MY HEAD CUZ I THINK WE'RE BOTH IN TOTAL AGREEMENT LIVING IN, HAVE GREECE, YOU KNOW, LIVING IN I THINK THE, THE GREATEST HUB OF TOURISM, UM, FOR HARTFORD COUNTY.

UM, I ALSO JUST, I CAN'T THINK IT SHOULD BE LOST ON ANYBODY.

MICRO TOURISM.

THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO US FROM CECIL, FROM LANCASTER, FROM BALTIMORE COUNTY, AND THEN THEY BECOME RESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY FALL IN LOVE ON, ON A DAY TRIP TO, YOU KNOW, OCTOBERFEST ON A SATURDAY OR, YOU KNOW, TO TO TO, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, ANY, ANY OF OUR EVENTS, ANY OF OUR FESTIVALS, YOU KNOW, TO FIRST FRIDAYS AND THEY SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO OFFER AND, AND THEY SEE THE, THE BEAUTY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY RIDE THE TROLLEY.

UM, YOU KNOW, AND YOU CAN'T ALWAYS ACCOUNT FOR THOSE THINGS AS MULTI-DAY EVENTS, BUT THEY ACCUMULATE, YOU KNOW, AND I JUST, I'M CONCERNED THAT SOME OF THAT IS GONNA BE LOST IN THIS PROCESS.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MY NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, CUZ THE PEOPLE THAT RECEIVE THIS FUNDING ARE THE PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I LIVE AMONGST.

AND, UM, I'M, I JUST, I REALLY THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT BEYOND LIKE THE RECEIVING OF THEIR CONCERNS OF REACHING OUT, OF CALLING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED, UH, TOURISM DOLLARS IN THE PAST, ACTIVELY, YOU KNOW, SENDING THEM A LETTER WITH EXPLANATIONS OF FAQS OF LIKE, OF, UH, BECAUSE I, I DON'T THINK JUST IF THEY REACH OUT, WE'RE GONNA EXPLAIN IT TO THEM AS GOOD ENOUGH ON THIS TIMETABLE OF THEY HAVE LESS THAN A MONTH AT THIS POINT.

I REALLY THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME ACTIVE COMMUNICATION CUZ I'VE HEARD THE SAME PANIC AND CONCERN OF, YOU KNOW, WILL WE BE ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING? HOW, HOW DO WE HAVE TO CHANGE WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE OFFERING FOR THE NEXT YEAR AND THE NEXT MONTH TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING? UM, UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, AND I'VE ALREADY SAID HOW I FEEL LIKE THAT'S NOT FAIR TO THEM, BUT I THINK TO MAKE IT MORE FAIR TO BE ACTIVE IN THE, HELLO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND WE JUST WANNA REACH OUT CUZ YOU'VE RECEIVED TOURISM DOLLARS IN THE PAST, AND WE WANNA SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS THIS YEAR.

I THINK THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO THE, THE PEOPLE OF HAVING DEGREES AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHO RECEIVES THAT MONEY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY FEEL TAKEN CARE OF IN THE NEXT MONTH.

SO THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, UH, MY FEEDBACK IS THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT F.

THANK YOU COUNCILMAN BENNETT.

IF, IF I MAY PRESIDENT, I, I DO FEEL THAT THE SECOND FUND ISN'T IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AS WELL.

SO THERE IS A PARTNERSHIP FUND THAT IS REQUIRING ENTITIES TO PARTNER FOR THAT OVERNIGHT OPPORTUNITY.

BUT THERE IS ALSO A STRIDES FUND AND THAT IS TO ADDRESS THE VERY THING FOR THOSE THAT ARE, ARE, UM, HAVING DAY VISITORS AND DO HAVE A VIABLE TOURISM RELATED ENTITY, BUT, UM, NEEDS THAT OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD TOWARDS SUSTAINABILITY.

AND THE ONLY REQUIREMENT IN THAT IS TO BE ABLE TO, UM, DEMONSTRATE HOW YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT FROM OUTSIDE THE BORDERS OF HARFORD COUNTY.

THAT'S ALL OUT OF THE SAME POT, RIGHT? NO, SAME POT OF MONEY, NO ONE POT OF MONEY FOR THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, PARTNERSHIP, ANOTHER FOR THE STRIDES FUND, BUT IT'S ALL ALLOWED THE $2 MILLION TOURISM MONTH.

CORRECT? CORRECT.

SO IT'S ALL OUTTA ONE POT.

WAS, IT WAS VERY CLEAR AND, UM, UH, VERY PRECISE OF WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AND, UH, HOW YOU'RE GONNA GET THE MONEY FROM IT.

WE'VE DIVIDED EVERYBODY UP, OKAY? MM-HMM.

UM, AND I'M JUST SITTING HERE DOING SOME, CALCULATING FROM SOME OF THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT I KNOW THAT RECEIVE MONEY, 15%, $300,000 COULD BE AS MANY AS, UH, 10 OR 15 PARTNERS THAT, THAT NEED THAT MONEY TO CONTINUE TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

SO AGAIN, I'M JUST GONNA HAMMER THAT HOME.

UH, MR. GUTHRIE, UM, I GUESS, UH, I'M GONNA SUPPORT YOUR POSITION BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY ALL THESE COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE SO INTERESTED IN THIS PROGRAM AND WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THEY SHOULD HAVE ATTENDED THE, THE TWO EVENTS YOU HAD, THE TWO TWO HOUR EVENTS YOU HAD AT, AT, I WAS OUT OF TOWN AND MY AID WAS THERE, JUST SO YOU KNOW.

WELL THEN, THEN, THEN MAYBE YOUR AID SHOULD REPORT IT TO YOU BECAUSE THEY COVERED EVERY SINGLE QUESTION AND, AND THAT BOTH OF YOU HAD, UM, UH, THEY, AND IT WAS, IT WAS HEAVILY ATTENDED.

UM, IT WAS ALSO VIRTUALLY YOU COULD HAVE WENT ON A COMPUTER AND GOT IT.

YOU COULD ALSO, IF YOU MISSED IT, IT'S ON THERE.

YOU CAN GO GET IT NOW IF YOU WANT ALL THE SLIDES AND EVERYTHING THAT WERE PUT UP AT, AT THE EVENT, YOU CAN HAVE 'EM, UH, EMAILED, SHE'LL EMAIL 'EM TO YOUR OFFICE.

SO I, I THINK IT

[04:30:01]

UM, I I THINK THAT, UH, UH, WHAT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS DONE HERE IS, IS, IS, IS DONE THIS THING, IT LOOKS TO ME A LOT FAIR BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I, AND I SENT EVERYBODY ON THIS COUNCIL A A COPY OF THE LIST OF HOW THE MONEY WAS DISTRIBUTED, UM, THE LAST GO AROUND AND YOU GO OVER THAT AND YOU ANALYZE THAT LIST OF HOW ALL THAT MONEY'S DISTRIBUTED AND YOU'RE GONNA FIND ON THAT LIST.

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'RE GONNA FIND ON THAT LIST A LOT OF MONEY THAT WAS SPENT ON NOT TOURISM ISSUES.

AND, AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE THE, IT DOESN'T ALL GET APPLIED FOR BY PEOPLE WANTING TO DO IT FOR TOURISM.

THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THEY SPEND THE MONEY ON.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TOURISM.

I THINK THAT, UH, THE, THE, THE COUNTY'S NOW TRYING TO GET A PULSE ON THAT THING AND, AND SPEND THAT.

NOW, I I, I KIND OF AGREE WITH YOU.

I DON'T THINK CONSTRUCTION, YOU KNOW, OF INTERCHANGES AND ALL HAS, HAS, UH, ANYTHING TO DO WITH TOURISM.

BUT, UM, YOU CAN GO TO A LOT OF, I'VE, I'VE BEEN TO A LOT OF MEETINGS ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY AND, UH, AND SOME FOREIGN COUNTRIES AND, UH, YOU CAN GO AND YOU CAN SEE, LIKE, YOU GO, YOU GO INTO THE PHOENIX AREA AND YOU DRIVE DOWN THE HIGHWAY IN PHOENIX, IF ANY OF YOU'VE BEEN THERE AND YOU WEREN'T, TALK ABOUT ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL DRIVES YOU'LL EVER MAKE THAT PLACE IS ABSOLUTELY, THOSE HIGHWAYS ARE ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS.

EVERYTHING ON THE SIDE, WHEN YOU GO UNDER AN UNDERPASS, IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL AND FINISHED OFF.

THEY HAVE FLOODLIGHTS ON THE UNDERPASS.

IF YOU GO ADHERE AND HAVE FUN LIGHTS ON THE UNDERPASS, YOU WOULDN'T GO UNDER IT WITH ALL THE RUST AND ALL THAT.

BUT NO, MY COMPLIMENTS, I THINK THE, THE PROGRAM YOU PUT ON, UH, YOU CAN STILL GET IT.

YOU CAN GET IT ONLINE IF YOU WANT IT AND WATCH IT.

IT'S A TWO HOUR, IT'S ABOUT A TWO HOUR PROGRAM.

UH, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT IF YOU'RE INVOLVED IN THIS HOTEL TAX AND YOU WANNA SEE WHERE THE MONEY'S GOING OR WHAT YOUR, WHAT, WHAT THE NEEDS ARE AND HOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO ABOUT IT.

UM, UH, I THINK THERE'S A MUCH BETTER PULSE ON IT.

AND, BUT I DO, UH, UH, I, UH, UM, I, I DO UNDER UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT FLYERS.

UH, AND I DON'T WANT TO ON MY CASKET, SO FORGET ABOUT IT.

AND, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE CALLS I'M GETTING ARE FROM TOURISM PARTNERS.

SO, AND WITH THE CURRENT INITIATIVES IN THE COUNTY, I'M KIND OF CONCERNED ON THE DIRECTION OF IT.

MANY OF WHICH WERE IN THAT ROOM, THEN THEY SHOULD AT THAT, WHAT TO DO.

BUT APPARENTLY THEY DON'T.

THEY WERE THERE.

THEY SHOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO.

THEY DON'T TRUST ME.

WELL, TRUST ME, ALL YOU GOTTA GO IS ONLINE RIGHT NOW.

YOU CAN GET THE APPLICATION, YOU CAN FIND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.

IT TELLS YOU EXACTLY WHAT TO DO.

IT TELLS YOU WHEN THE CUTOFF DATE IS.

IT TELLS YOU HOW TO GET IT IN THERE.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE THEY NEED.

TRUST ME, THEY DON'T.

THAT'S ALL I'M GONNA SAY.

WELL, ANYONE ELSE, MS. HAN? UM, FULL DISCLOSURE, I'M ON THE BOARD OF, OH, SO WE STAND TO LOSE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO CALCULATE HEADS AND BEDS BECAUSE THERE IS, THERE IS NO ACCOMMODATION AND REASONABLE AMOUNT TO DM TO SPEND THE NIGHT.

NOW WE ARE A WEDDING VENUE AND SO THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING FROM ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES TO ATTEND A WEDDING, BUT WE CAN'T SAY TO THE BRIDE, HAVE YOUR GUEST SALE OUT THIS CARD AND TELL ME WHERE YOU'RE STAYING TONIGHT.

THE OTHER THING IS, WE OFFER MUSIC AT THE MANSION 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR AND 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.

WE ALSO OFFER PROGRAMMING THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH WHATEVER THE APPROPRIATE MONTH OF THE YEAR IS.

FOR INSTANCE, FOR MOTHER'S DAY, FOR BLACK HISTORY MONTH, UM, WE'VE HAD CHARACTERS COME IN, UM, AND PORTRAY ESPECIALLY, UM, THINGS THAT ARE RELATED TO DR.

KELLY.

I SAID IT ON THE, ON THE WEBINAR.

AND ACCORDING TO THE CRITERIA, WE ARE NOT ELIGIBLE.

THE $70,000 THAT WE PUT INTO THE MANSION THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

WE HAVE TWO EMPLOYEES.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN OPERATE WITH LESS THAN TWO EMPLOYEES.

ONE IS HOUSE OF GROUNDS AND ONE IS A MANAGER.

SO YOU WOULD BE ELIGIBLE THROUGH THE STRIDES FUND TO APPLY IN THAT REGARD.

THROUGH THAT POT OF MONEY.

THERE'S, UH, CURRENTLY $220,000 AVAILABLE THERE.

IF YOU CHOSE TO PARTNER WITH ANOTHER ENTITY, YOU WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE PARTNERSHIP FUND.

I'M JUST SAYING THE OTHER ENTITY WOULD, WOULD BE AHEAD IN, IT WOULD BE A HOTEL OR A MOTEL OR TO PUT AHEAD OF THE BED.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU WOULD STAY IF YOU, YOU CAN'T SLEEP AT LEEDEN OBVIOUSLY.

UM, SO WHERE WOULD YOU STAY IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE AT LEEDEN? I CAN TELL YOU BALTIMORE COUNTY'S THE CLOSEST.

THANK YOU MS. HAN.

UM, MR. PENMAN.

THANK YOU, MS. HOLT.

UM, I GOTTA SAY, UM, I THINK YOU HAVE ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT POSITIONS IN, IN THIS WHOLE COUNTY.

UM, JUST ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS SO VERY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE, UM, THE REVENUE GROWTH THAT WE NEED.

UM,

[04:35:01]

I KNOW, UM, THAT YOU HAVE GREAT TIES WITH APG.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE COMPLIMENTED YOU ON YOUR TIES WITH APG AND THAT'S GREAT CUZ THAT'S, THAT'S A, YOU KNOW, A BIG, UM, SET THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO ATTRACT TO ATTRACT ECONOMIC GROWTH.

BUT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT OUTSIDE THE ARENA, OUTSIDE OF APG, ATTRACTING THESE COMPANIES THAT ARE GONNA BRING, UM, GROWTH IN AND POPULATION FOR TAX BASE AND THEN GROWTH, GROWTH IN, UM, PROPERTY TAXES, UM, AND INCOME TAXES.

SO, UH, I KNOW WITH, UH, I DON'T WANT TO GO TOO FAR DOWN IN THE WEEDS WITH THE MORATORIUM, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT ONE PARTICULAR PROJECT WAS GONNA BRING IN 3 MILLION JUST BASED OFF OF THE PROPERTY TAXES, NOT EVEN THE INCOME TAXES THAT ARE THERE.

SO, UM, CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT, OR US I SHOULD SAY ABOUT SOME IDEAS YOU HAVE ABOUT TRACKING OUTSIDE OF APG, SOME COMPANIES IN HERE THAT CAN HELP OUR LOCAL ECONOMY? SO I SAY OUTSIDE OF APG, BUT STILL VERY FOCUSED ON MANUFACTURING AND, UM, MILITARY APPLICATIONS WITH REGARD TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ATTRACT, BECAUSE THAT BASE IS ALREADY HERE AND THAT'S MUCH EASIER FOR THAT OUTREACH.

UM, I WAS IN CONVERSATION WITH THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE YESTERDAY TALKING ABOUT THAT PIVOT AS SOON AS THE PRESS RELEASE WAS ISSUED, UM, ABOUT THE FOCUS ON MANUFACTURING AND THAT SKILLED JOB OPPORTUNITY.

HISTORICALLY, WE HAVE BEEN, UM, DESIRABLE BOTH HARTFORD AND CECIL COUNTY FOR THOSE, UM, BIG BOX AND, AND WAREHOUSE OPPORTUNITIES.

UH, BEING ABLE TO REALLY FOCUS THAT APPROACH INTO MANUFACTURING, UM, HAS BEEN A, A TARGET DISCUSSION WITH THEM.

THE CHALLENGE COMES IN THAT MANUFACTURING REPRESENTS ABOUT 10% OF THE PROSPECTING THAT COMES IN.

UM, BIOSCIENCE, UH, THE BIOMANUFACTURING INITIATIVE IS SOMETHING WE'RE VERY FOCUSED ON RIGHT NOW.

UM, LARRY MAZZELLO HAS JOINED OUR STAFF WHO WAS, UM, FORMERLY WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS ELECTRONICS COMMAND AT APG.

UM, SO HE BRINGS A, A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE IN THAT REGARD.

IT'S A VERY COMPETITIVE PROCESS, BUT THEY'RE LOOKING AT 10, UM, BIO-ENGINEERING HUBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE SOME VERY UNIQUE CAPABILITIES, AGAIN, INSIDE THE GATE OF APG, BUT THE DESIRE AND THE APPROACH FOR THESE, UM, HUBS OR THESE FOUNDRIES, IF YOU WILL, ARE OUTSIDE THE GATES.

UM, THEY FOCUS ON CERTIFIED EMPLOYEES VERSUS ADVANCED DEGREES.

SO WE SEE A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR COMMUNITY COLLEGES TO ENGAGE IN THIS PROCESS.

UM, HARTFORD COMMUNITY COLLEGE AS WELL AS CECIL, OUR MEMBERS OF BIO MADE, WHICH IS VERY FOCUSED ON THE BIOSCIENCES.

SO IT'S A WONDER TO FOUR RO RATIO FOR ADVANCED DEGREE TO HAVE THREE CERTIFICATED ASSOCIATES DEGREE OR A CERTIFIED PROGRAM THROUGH A COMMUNITY COLLEGE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE JOBS.

SO WE SUBMITTED AN RFI YESTERDAY, UM, IN CONCERT WITH INDUSTRY PARTNERS TO, UM, PURSUE THAT OPPORTUNITY HERE IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

UM, THERE'S ALSO LOOKING AT SOME TRIANGULATION AMONG, UM, PAX RIVER IN, IN SOUTHERN MARYLAND, FORT MEAD AND OUR LOCATION HERE, UM, TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT UAV OPPORTUNITIES AND LOOK AT THAT CORRIDOR FOR, UM, UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES AND BEING ABLE TO LEVERAGE SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGIES COMING OUT OF, AGAIN, DEFENSE COMPANIES AND AVIATION, BUT BEING ABLE TO REALLY, UM, CAPITALIZE ON THAT TRIANGULATION THAT THAT OFFERS.

UM, WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF GROWTH ACTUALLY IN THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ALREADY VESTED HERE, UM, EXPANSIONS IN THEIR, UH, PRODUCTION LINES AND, AND ASSEMBLY.

SO THAT'S CONTINUED GROWTH.

SO I WOULDN'T CALL THAT ATTRACTION, BUT IT IS CONTINUED EXPANSION THAT DOES BRING NEW WORKERS, AND AGAIN, THEY'RE SKILLED IN THOSE AREAS.

SO THAT'S DEFINITELY A CONTINUED ASSET FOR HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO WE ARE LOOKING AT A VARIETY OF, OF OPPORTUNITIES.

UM, YOU KNOW, WORKFORCE IS THE CHALLENGE.

WE HEAR, HEAR FROM EVERY EMPLOYER REGARDLESS OF THE SECTOR.

AND WE'RE ONE OF THE FORTUNATE ONES BECAUSE WE HAVE A LABOR SHED THAT PULLS FROM 16 JURISDICTIONS AROUND HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE A HARTFORD COUNTY ZIP CODE TO BE A VIABLE EMPLOYEE AT A BUSINESS IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

WE PULL FROM PENNSYLVANIA, FROM DELAWARE, FROM ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY.

SO PEOPLE, EMPLOYERS DO SEE HARTFORD COUNTY AS A VERY DESIRABLE LOCATION BECAUSE THERE IS THAT PIPELINE FOR THAT WORKFORCE.

BUT THAT CHALLENGE IS UNIQUE OR NOT UNIQUE TO US, BUT AROUND THE WHOLE REGION.

SO, YOU KNOW, PARTNERING WITH OUR, UM, COLLEGES AND OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND CONTINUING TO FOCUS ON THAT PIPELINE IS VERY CRITICAL WITH THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

UM, I'VE HEARD THROUGH BUSINESS CONTACTS THAT, UH, BUSINESSES MAY BE RELUCTANT TO COME TO HARFORD COUNTY BASED OFF RECENT INITIATIVES.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANY, UH, HINDRANCE ON THE ATTRACTING COMPANIES TO HARFORD COUNTY BASED OFF OF RECENT POLICIES OR PROCEDURES? I HAVE NOT.

UM, AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.

I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PERRYMAN PENINSULA HAS BEEN A, A, A CHALLENGE JUST BECAUSE IT HAS MADE NATIONAL NEWS.

UM, BUT AGAIN, OUR FOCUS HAS

[04:40:01]

BEEN, UH, UH, LOOKING AT A PIVOT ON THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES THAT COULD COME TO SUCH A LOCATION.

I WISH YOU WELL IN YOUR POSITION.

THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN.

MR. TIPS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN MOVED INTO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND AS AGRICULTURE PLAYS A BIG PART OF HARFORD COUNTY'S, UH, ECONOMIC STRESS OR STRENGTHS, I SHOULD SAY, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE, THE JOB HAS BEEN PUT OUT ON THE STREET AS OF THIS WEEK, AND I, MY, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL PLAN FOR THAT JOB AS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND? THANK YOU.

SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, JASON WILL BE LEAVING THE POSITION AS AG SPECIALIST, AND WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY REVIEW THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, HAVING A MORE ACTIVE ENGAGEMENT TO LOOK AT, UM, TO LOOK AT AGRICULTURE FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT.

I MEAN, WE HAVE SOME, UH, EX EXTENSIVE RESOURCES IN THE COUNTY, UM, BEING ABLE TO LEVERAGE THAT FORM, THOSE PARTNERSHIPS.

UM, THE REALITY IS IT'S A FULL-TIME JOB, RIGHT? SO, UM, I DID ADVOCATE FOR THAT TO BECOME A BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATE POSITION, AND THAT WAS APPROVED.

UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMEONE POTENTIALLY WITH AN AG SCIENCE BACKGROUND OR SOME EXPERIENCE IN THAT AREA, UM, UH, RURAL PLANNING POTENTIALLY, THAT CAN FACILITATE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE AGENCY OPPORTUNITIES HERE IN THE COUNTY.

UM, AND WE JUST HELD OUR FIRST AG ADVISORY BOARD MEETING YESTERDAY, UM, BROKE INTO TEAMS HAVE CHAIRS FOR THOSE COMMITTEES.

SO THERE'S A LITTLE MORE STRUCTURE IN THAT OPPORTUNITY NOW.

AND I THINK THAT OUR, OUR NEW, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, OUR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATE WILL REALLY BE ABLE TO WORK MORE CLOSELY WITH THEM.

UM, THEY DID NOT HOLD BACK.

THEY HAVE MANY INITIATIVES.

THEY'RE VERY ENERGIZED ABOUT MOVING FORWARD ON THINGS TO LOOK AT LEGISLATIVE PIECES.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO FACILITATE THOSE, THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS COMING OUT OF EACH OF THOSE COMMITTEES WOULD BE A PRIMARY FOCUS OF THE NEW POSITION.

, MS. HERGE, HUH? SO I UNDERSTAND, UM, THAT YOU WANNA ADD BEAUTIFICATION TO THE INTERCHANGES.

DID I HEAR YOU CORRECTLY? THERE IS A FOCUS ON CURB APPEAL THAT WOULD, UM, FOCUS ON INTERCHANGE CHANGES AND THE CLUSTERS APPROACHING OUR HOTELS.

SO RIGHT NOW, THE STATE OWNS THE RIGHT OF WAYS ON 95 TO THE EXITS, TO THE INTERSTATES.

HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO PLANT ON ROUTE 40 AND ON 95 EXITS WHEN WE DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY? SO PLANTING HASN'T REALLY BEEN DEFINED YET.

WHAT OUR TASK FORCE, UM, AND THE FEEDBACK OUT OF THAT RECOMMENDATION, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS DIRECTED US TO WORK CLOSELY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS IN CONCERT WITH STATE HIGHWAYS, AND ASSESS THE AREAS TO SEE WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD COME.

IT MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE FLOWERS.

IT MAY BE GRASS CUTTING OR, OR LITTER COLLECTION, OR THINGS THAT HELP IMPROVE THE CURB APPEAL THAT WOULD ATTRACT PEOPLE TO THE HOTEL LOCATIONS.

, ANYONE ELSE? UM, HAVE YOU FOUND A DEPUTY YET? THEY START ON MONDAY.

VERY NICE.

CAN I ASK WHO? PARDON? CAN I ASK WHO ARE WE ALLOWED TO? YEAH, YEAH.

HIS, HIS NAME IS RAJ GOLD.

AND, UM, HE CAME DOWN TODAY AND MET WITH OUR STAFF, AND THE ENERGY WAS GREAT, AND I CAN'T WAIT.

IS HE LOCAL OR MM-HMM.

GREW UP IN HARVARD, GRACE.

WELL, THE HOUSING APARTMENT IS TAKING THEIR SEATS, SO JUST DRAW EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION TO THEIR BUDGET PAGES ARE ON, UH, UM, 2 83, UH, THROUGH 2 86.

UM, AND THEN FOR COMPARISONS SAKE, THE HOUSING DIVISION WHEN IT WAS UNDER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IS ON PAGES 6 0 3 2, 6 0 4.

SO FOR HOUSING, THAT'S FROM THAT.

UH, BILLION DOLLARS WITH SIGNIFICANT, UH, CHANGES BEING THE, UH, TRANSFER OF SIX POSITIONS THAT WERE FORMALLY WITH ECONOMIC AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT OVER TO THIS, UH, NEW DEPARTMENT, UH, AND TO, UH, CREATE, UH, TWO, UH, POSITIONS, UH, FOR THE NEW HOUSING DEPARTMENT, THE, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND THE DIRECTOR, UM, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER CHANGES TO, UH, SUPPLIES AND MATERIALS AND CONTRACTUAL SERVICES.

GOOD.

UH, HOUSING HAS A BUDGET OF, UH, 2.2,

[04:45:01]

UM, AND THEN THE, UM, UH, OTHER SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THAT GRANTON AID, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY UNDER COMMUNITY SERVICES, HAS LARGELY BEEN MOVED TO, UM, HOUSING.

GOOD AFTERNOON, MS. RICHARDSON.

HOW ARE YOU? I'M FINE.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

I HAVE WITH ME, UM, PATRICIA HAMMOND, WHO IS OUR GRANTS ADMINISTRATOR SLASH BUDGET ANALYST.

SO I NEED SOME BACKUP IN CASE .

THINGS GET TOUGH HERE.

SO FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW, I, HOUSING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT IS BASICALLY THE DEPARTMENT THAT ENSURES THAT ALL HARTFORD COUNTY S HAVE SAFE, DECENT AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

AND WE DO THAT THROUGH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. WE ADMINISTER THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER PROGRAM, WHICH IS ABOUT 9 MILLION OF RENTAL ASSISTANCE THROUGH THE US DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.

UH, AND WE ADMINISTER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDING ALSO, ALSO THROUGH HUD, WHICH GO TOWARDS, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.

UH, COUNSEL, ANY QUESTIONS? MR. BENNETT? UM, IN THE GRANT AND AID, YOU KNOW, YESTERDAY IT WAS A POINT OF CONVERSATION WITH THE GRANT AND AID BEING, UH, MOVED OUT OF THE HARTFORD CENTER AND THE ARC AND, AND MOVED INTO THEIR DEPARTMENTS, UM, THAT IT, THEIR TOTAL AMOUNT THAT THEY WERE RECEIVING HAD BEEN LESSENED, AND IT WAS TALKED ABOUT THAT, THAT WAS PROBABLY JUST LIKE AN ERROR AND TRANSFER.

BUT I ENDED UP COMPARING THIS YEAR'S GRANT NEED TO, LAST YEAR'S GRANT NEED.

UM, AND FOR 14 OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT RECEIVED GRANT NEED, THEIR AMOUNT HAD BEEN CUT, UM, YOU KNOW, RANGING FROM, UH, ANYWHERE FROM, YOU KNOW, $2,750 TO $20,000 IN CUTS.

UM, AND, AND I'VE HAD SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE FROM THOSE ORGANIZATIONS REACH OUT TO ME, UH, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, NOT RECEIVING THE SAME AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT THEY HAD THE PREVIOUS YEAR SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T CUT SALARIES.

WE MIGHT HAVE TO REMOVE A POSITION FROM OUR SERVICES, OR WE MIGHT HAVE TO LESSEN THE SERVICES WE PROVIDE, UM, BECAUSE OF, OF LESSONS GRANT NEED.

AND I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S, UM, A REASON FOR THE LESSONS GRANT NEED THIS YEAR? UM, SURE.

WELL, A COUPLE REASONS.

UM, FIRST OF ALL, WE WERE ALL ASKED TO TRY TO CUT OUR BUDGETS BY 5%.

SO WE LOOKED VERY CLOSELY AT OUR COMMUNITY PARTNERS THAT WE WORKED WITH, AND THOSE, THOSE ORGAN, SORRY, YOU GUYS TAKE, SORRY, SORRY.

UH, SO THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WHO WE THOUGHT COULD, UM, WITHSTAND A 5% CUT, WE WENT AHEAD AND DID THAT.

UH, WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR NONPROFITS.

WE RECEIVE QUARTERLY WITH FINANCIAL STATEMENTS.

WE DO REIMBURSEMENTS.

WE, SO WE, WE ONLY CUT AGENCIES WHERE WE KNEW THAT THEY COULD PROBABLY AFFORD, NO ONE'S GONNA LOSE A POSITION.

I CAN GUARANTEE THAT.

UM, AND ALSO, GRANTON AID IS A FIXED AMOUNT OF MONEY EVERY YEAR.

NEW APPLICANTS ARE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE UP TO $5,000.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE PROGRAM, IT WAS, UM, FUNDED TO BE SORT OF SEED MONEY TO HELP ORGANIZATIONS GET STARTED.

SO IF WE FUND A NEW PROGRAM AND THERE'S NO INCREASE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE THE MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE.

SO AGAIN, IT WAS A VERY, UM, STRATEGIC COORDINATED LOOK AT WHO COULD AFFORD, UM, TO TAKE A 5% CUT.

UM, THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE THOUGHT COULD NOT, DID NOT GET CUT.

WE ONLY TOUCHED THOSE AGENCIES THAT WE KNEW HAD, UM, FUND BALANCES THAT ARE THRIVING.

UM, A LOT OF THOSE AGENCIES RECEIVED A LOT OF CARES MONEY.

AGAIN, WE SEE THERE'S FINANCIAL STATEMENTS.

UM, THE ONES THAT GOT CUT ARE IN GOOD, ARE IN GOOD PLACE RIGHT NOW.

UM, IS A PROGRAM THAT TARGETS VERY LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS AND HOUSEHOLDS.

ANYONE ELSE? MR. PENMAN? MS. RICHARDSON, HOW ARE YOU? I'M GOOD.

HOW ARE YOU? DOING GREAT.

UM, I DON'T REALLY FULLY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, UM, OF THE REQUIREMENTS OR THE GUIDELINES FOR LOW INCOME HOUSING BY THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FEDERAL AUTHORITIES, UH, AND LOCAL, THE STATE.

UM, I, I'VE HEARD THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF RATIO, KIND OF, UM, YOU KNOW, AROUND THE COUNTY.

YOU, AS FAR AS LOW INCOME HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COUNTY.

IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING, THERE'S NO SPECIFIC OF HOW MUCH AFFORDABLE HOUSING YOU HAVE? OBVIOUSLY, AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A PROJECT, UH, EXCUSE ME, A PROGRAM COUNTYWIDE.

I DIDN'T EVERY, EVERYBODY'S FACING THAT RIGHT NOW.

UM, AGAIN, OUR OFFICE, WE DON'T OWN OR OPERATE ANY HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS.

WE ONLY ADMINISTER RENTAL ASSISTANCE THROUGH THE HOUSING CHOICE OF VOUCHER PROGRAM, WHICH AGAIN,

[04:50:01]

UM, AND ONCE THEY'RE ON THE PROGRAM, THOSE HOUSEHOLDS DON'T PAY MORE THAN 30% OF THEIR INCOME, UM, TOWARDS RENT.

THE, THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER PROGRAM PAYS THE REST OF THE, OF THE RENTAL.

UM, AND THEN I, MYSELF AND, UH, COUNCIL WHEN, UH, BULL SADDLES MET WITH THE ABER ALLIANCE RECENTLY, AND, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE HOMELESS POPULATION, UH, AND THE SHELTERS AND THE VOUCHERS, AND THEY HAD A PROGRAM THERE.

AND I, I, I CAN'T RECALL OFFHAND WHAT THE, WHAT IT WAS, BUT I CAN FOLLOW UP WITH YOU.

UM, THAT, UM, THEY HAD A, UH, A GRANT OF MAYBE $16,000 AND THEY WERE CONCERNED WITH THAT GRANT.

UM, DO YOU KNOW REMEMBER WHAT THAT ASHLEY, WAS IT ASHLEY? OH, THE CLUBHOUSE.

THE CLUBHOUSE BY ASHLEY, AND I DON'T SEE THEM LISTED.

IT MIGHT BE IN COMMUNITY SERVICES, ESSENTIALLY, UH, IF IT HAS TO DO WITH, UH, ANYTHING RECOVERY OR ADDICTION EDITS, NOT RECOVERY.

I DIDN'T SEE IT LISTED.

I, I DO KNOW THAT WE PROVIDED FUNDS TO ASHLEY CLUBHOUSE UNDER, UNDER ARPA.

UM, SO WE DID PROVIDE, UH, SOME ASSISTANCE TO THEM AS WELL.

AND THEN WE, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ALSO ADDRESS IT WHEN COMMUNITY SERVICES COMES, UH, NEXT WEEK AS WELL.

YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE LISTED.

YEAH, I DON'T THINK IT'S TEST.

I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH YOU.

I JUST FIGURE MAYBE YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE IT.

SORRY.

, TO FOLLOW UP FROM THAT, UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY PEOPLE AREN'T RECEIVING GRANT AND AID THIS YEAR VERSUS LAST YEAR? BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE A LARGE AMOUNT OF CUTS.

UM, I, THE ONLY ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE CUT ENTIRELY, I THINK WE FOUND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE MOVED SOME OF THE GRANT AND AID FROM COMMUNITY SERVICES INTO HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT IS THERE WAS A LOT OF DUPLICATION OF SERVICES.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A FOOD PANTRY AT THE WILSON MINISTRY CENTER THAT WAS BEING FUNDED THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES.

OUR DEPARTMENT FUNDS SEVERAL OTHER FOOD PANTRIES, ONE OF WHICH IS VERY, VERY CLOSE TO THE WILSON MINISTRY CENTER.

SO WE THOUGHT THOSE ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE WORKING TOGETHER.

UM, THAT'S AN AREA THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE A, A GOOD CUT.

AND THEN THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIDN'T RECEIVE WAS THE RALLY AGAINST PARKINSON'S PROGRAM.

UM, I THINK IT WAS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE REVIEW BOARD THAT IF THERE HAD TO BE CUTS, THAT WOULD BE AN ORGANIZATION.

AGAIN, WE WERE LOOKING AT STRATEGIC CUTS.

WE ARE SERVING PROGRAMS THAT GO TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOMELESS PREVENTION, AND AT-RISK POPULATIONS, PARKINSON'S AGAINST WHATEVER.

IT'S, I'M SURE IS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S MORE OF A MEDICAL PROGRAM.

UM, WE AREN'T SURE HOW THAT FIT UNDER OUR GRANTON AID GUIDELINES.

SO OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK EVERYBODY IS, WELL, I SEE ALSO HOMECOMING PROJECT WAS, I THINK THOSE WERE MOVED INTO A LINE ITEM AND COMMUNITY SERVICES, OR THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN HOUSING AND COMMUNITY, AND THEY'RE RECEIVING 105 IN GRANT AID, BUT THAT'S LESS THAN LAST YEAR.

AND TH THAT'S THE $20,000 REDUCTION.

GOT IT.

HOMECOMING, I THINK, AGAIN, HOMECOMING, CORRECT.

HOMECOMING PROJECT.

UH, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN, AGAIN, SOME OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS CAME BEFORE WE WERE ABSORBING THESE PROGRAMS. SO IT WOULD'VE COME FROM THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT REVIEW BOARD, MAYBE LOOKING AT FUNDING OF THAT ORGANIZATION, HOW MANY CITIZENS ARE SERVED.

UM, OKAY.

AND ONE LAST QUESTION.

UM, I SEE SARC ON HERE.

CHOICE.

SO SARC CAN APPLY FOR GRANT AND AID LIKE ANY OTHER NONPROFIT.

SARC IS ALSO ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE ACTUALLY THE ONLY ORGANIZATION THAT CAN RECEIVE FUNDS UNDER THE MY LICENSE FEE PROGRAM.

SO A PORTION OF THE MARRIAGE LICENSES THAT ARE PRODUCED EVERY SINGLE YEAR, UM, BY STATUTE, THEY'RE THE ORGANIZATION THAT RECEIVES THAT FUND.

SO THEY ALWAYS APPLY TWICE.

THEY'RE ELIGIBLE UNDER BOTH PROGRAMS. THANK YOU, MS. SADDLES.

ANYONE ELSE? SEEING NO ONE ELSE? THANK YOU.

WELL, THAT WAS EASY.

SEE, WE'LL DO EXTENSION SERVICES.

WHILE THE EXTENSION OFFICE COMES UP TO THE TABLE, THEY ARE ON PAGE 5 88 IN YOUR OPERATING BOOK, 5 88.

YOU WILL SEE THEIR, UH, PROPOSED BUDGET IS FOR 314,926.

THAT IS AN INCREASE OF $16,100, UM, IN, UH, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT FUNDING TO PAY FOR THE, UH, STATE PAY INCREASE.

JOYCE BROWNING AND CAROLINE JOHNSON, UH, FROM OUR OFFICE.

WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.

WELL, PRESIDENT VICENTI AND HONORABLE COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, I AM DR.

PAUL RICKERT WITH UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND EXTENSION.

AND, UH, I HAVE A COUPLE OF COLLEAGUES HERE WITH ME TODAY, SCOTT SATCHEL AND, UH,

[04:55:01]

UM, I KNOW THAT SEVERAL OF YOU, I DID NOT SEE THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE IN 2019, I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, WHEN THE LAST TIME I WAS INTERIM FOR THE HARVARD OFFICE.

I'M THE AREA EXTENSION DIRECTOR FOR CECIL KENT, QUEEN ANNES IN CAROLINE COUNTY.

SO, BUT I JUST LIVE ACROSS THE BRIDGE, SO WHENEVER WE HAVE A AN INTERIM POSITION, UH, THEY HAVE ME STEP IN .

UM, SO, UH, I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND EXTENSION DOES.

UH, WE WERE CREATED BY FEDERAL LEGISLATION IN 1914, SO WE'RE 109 YEARS OLD.

UH, WE USED TO BE CALLED COOPERATIVE EXTENSION HERE IN MARYLAND, EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY.

IT IS COOPERATIVE EXTENSION.

UH, IT'S A COOPERATION BETWEEN FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO AFFIRMATIVELY TAKE EDUCATION, UH, TO THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THE PEOPLE RESIDE.

UH, BECAUSE WHEN WE STARTED THOSE THAT WERE IN FARMING HOMEMAKERS, UH, AND MANY OTHERS, UH, WERE NOT ABLE TO GO TO UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND COLLEGE PARK FOR A MONTH OR THREE MONTHS AT A TIME, UH, TO LEARN THE BEST FARMING TECHNIQUES, UH, OR THAT SORT OF THING.

SO, UH, WE WERE TASKED WITH TAKING, UH, INFORMAL, UH, RESEARCH BASED, UH, INFORMATION TO THE COMMUNITIES.

UH, SO WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT.

AND IN THE PA PAMPHLET OR THE, UH, THE PACKET THAT I'VE PROVIDED FOR YOU, UH, THERE'S A BROCHURE ON HOW EXTENSION WORKS FOR YOU.

OUR MOST RECENT ANNUAL REPORT FOR CALENDAR YEAR, UH, 22.

UH, AND THEN I ALSO HAVE, UH, A BRIEF, UH, PRINTOUT OF A POWERPOINT SLIDE.

UM, BUT BEFORE I GET THERE, UH, WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHY SCOTT SATCHEL IS SITTING NEXT TO ME.

UH, HE HAS RECENTLY BEEN HIRED TO REPLACE ME, , I'LL BE THE NEW, UH, AREA EXTENSION FOR, FOR HARVARD.

SO, THANK THEY.

WELL, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

WELCOME.

SO, UM, ALSO, UH, DID I, I'VE GOT A QUICK STORY FOR YOU, IF YOU ALL DON'T MIND THAT, UH, JOYCE, UH, BROWNING WOULD, UH, RELAY, OR WOULD YOU RATHER DO THE BUDGET STUFF FIRST? YOU CAN DO YOUR SHORT STORY.

PROGRAM, UH, THE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES AND SEA GRANT PROGRAM, AND THEN ALSO OUR FAMILY AND CONSUMER SCIENCES PROGRAM THAT USED TO BE CALLED HOME EC A LONG TIME AGO.

JOYCE , THERE'S A SEAT BACK THERE.

HI, COUNCILMAN.

HI.

AND WOMEN.

SO, I'M JOYCE BROWNING.

I SERVE AS A HORTICULTURALIST IN HARPER COUNTY.

I ACTUALLY AM DIRECTLY PAID BY FUNDING THROUGH THE COUNTY, AND I'VE BEEN WORKING THERE 12 YEARS, AND I TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO GARDEN.

I OVERSEE 135 VOLUNTEER MASTER GARDENERS.

BUT ANYWAY, WE JUST GOT REALLY UNIQUE PERMISSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND TO IMPLEMENT A POLLINATOR TRAIL IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

SO OUR 135 VOLUNTEERS HAVE PROPOSED A PLAN TO THE UNIVERSITY, AND TYPICALLY THEY DON'T ALLOW COUNTIES TO DO HOME VISITS, INSURANCE REASONS AND THINGS.

BUT ODDLY ENOUGH, WE WERE ABLE TO SECURE PERMISSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND EXTENSION TO DO A HOME VISITATION TO HOMEOWNER'S YARDS, TO CERTIFY THEM AS POLLINATOR FRIENDLY.

I HOPE ALL OF YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE NEED FOR POLLINATORS TO FERTILIZE.

I MEAN, TO POLLINATE NOT ONLY YOUR VEGETABLE GARDENS, IT'S A PROBLEM IF YOU GROW CUCUMBERS.

THEY COME TWISTED AND BENT IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLLINATORS ON THEM.

SO IT'S TO PROMOTE POLLINATORS FOR HOMEOWNERS AS WELL AS FOR THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY.

AND SO WE'VE RECEIVED PERMISSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND TO DO A HOME CERTIFICATION PROGRAM WHERE A HOMEOWNER CAN EARN A LITTLE SIGN FOR THAT.

AND THEN IN ADDITION, WE HAVE A TEAM OF MASTER GARDENERS THAT'S WORKING WITH HARTFORD LAND TRUST TO DEVELOP LITTLE SIGNS THAT THE HOMEOWNERS CAN EARN.

AND ONCE WE ESTABLISH A CERTIFICATION PROGRAM, IT'S GOING TO GROW WITH A PARTNERSHIP WITH VISIT HARTFORD TOURISM, AND WE WANT TO ESTABLISH A POLLINATOR TRAIL HERE IN HARTFORD COUNTY.

WE'VE ALREADY INVESTIGATED AT LEAST A DOZEN PUBLIC SITES WHERE PEOPLE CAN VISIT HARTFORD COUNTY.

AND JUST LIKE YOU HAVE A ICE CREAM TRAIL, AND YOU MIGHT KNOW ABOUT THE QUILT TRAIL AND THE WINE TRAIL, WE WANNA HAVE A POLLINATOR TRAIL.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING.

IT'S A PRETTY COOL OPPORTUNITY THAT'S ONLY BEEN OFFERED TO THE, UM, HARTFORD COUNTY MASTER GARDENERS AT THIS TIME TO IMPLEMENT.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

VERY GOOD, THANK YOU.

WE HAVE SOME MORE, UH, LAWNS FOR YOU, THE PLANT IN A COUPLE MONTHS, .

SO THANK, THANK YOU FOR IN INDULGING THAT STORY.

I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN HEARING.

UH, SINCE HARTFORD IS THE ONLY COUNTY IN THE STATE THAT HAS THAT APPROVAL RIGHT NOW.

UM, SO WE IMPLEMENT OUR MANDATE, UH, IN FOUR DIFFERENT PROGRAM AREAS.

UH, I'M SURE YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD OF THE FOUR H YOUTH DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM.

THAT'S ONE WAY.

ANOTHER WAY IS THROUGH OUR AGRICULTURAL AGRICULTURE AND FOOD SYSTEMS

[05:00:01]

UM, BUT THEY'VE UPDATED THE NAME.

UM, WE ALSO HAVE A COUPLE FEDERAL GRANT PROGRAMS THAT WE IMPLEMENT OUT OF OUR OFFICE.

THAT'S THE SNAP ED PROGRAM.

AND, UH, AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE, UH, FEDERAL GRANT FOR, UH, FNA AND OTHERS, UH, THAT WE IMPLEMENT IN OUR PROGRAMS, UH, THROUGH OUR PROGRAMS. UH, IF YOU HAD TURNED TO THE PAGE THAT SAYS, UM, E HARFORD COUNTY OFFICE EXPENSES, UH, YOU'LL SEE, UH, THE PERSONNEL, UH, IN THE OFFICE, UH, OR THAT WORK WITH THE OFFICE, UM, DETAILED, AND YOU CAN SEE THE TOP, UH, SIX, UH, THERE'S NO COST AT ALL TO THE COUNTY.

UM, THAT'S ALL EITHER FEDERALLY OR STATE FUNDED ENTIRELY.

UM, THE BOTTOM SIX, UM, THERE IS A COST TO THE COUNTY AT VARYING DEGREES.

UH, AS JOYCE MENTIONED, UH, SHE IS, UH, ENTIRELY FUNDED BY THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT, UM, AS ARE SOME, A COUPLE OF OTHERS.

BUT WE DO HAVE, UH, CAROLINE JOHNSTON.

SHE IS, UH, MORE STATE.

SHE'S ABOUT TWO THIRD STATE AND ONLY ONE THIRD COUNTY.

SO WE DO TRY AND SPLIT COSTS, UH, ACROSS THE BOARD ON THINGS LIKE THAT.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE THE CHANGES, UH, FROM FY 23 TO FY 24.

UH, THE PERCENTAGE WISE, PERCENTAGE WISE, THEY'RE MOSTLY THE SAME.

UM, WE HAVE NOT INCREASED ANYTHING THIS YEAR EXCEPT FOR THE COLA, UM, BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL, UM, WHICH WE'RE THANKFUL FOR.

BUT THAT ALSO OBVIOUSLY CREATES, UH, A FUNDING, UH, DIFFICULTY.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE THAT, UH, IN FY 23, OUR, I WONDER, I WAS HAVING PROBLEMS, DIDN'T HAVE MY READERS ON.

UM, YOU CAN SEE THAT OUR TOTAL COUNTY OFFICE COST WAS ABOUT $825,000, UH, THIS YEAR.

IF YOU GO OVER TO THE RIGHT IN THE YELLOW, YOU CAN SEE IT'S ABOUT $862,000.

THAT INCLUDES, UH, THE RAISES, UH, I'M SORRY, THE COLAS.

AND, UH, BUT THAT IS IT.

THAT ENTIRE AMOUNT IS THE COLAS.

NOW, THE COUNTY PORTION FOR THIS CURRENT FISCAL YEAR, UH, WAS 298,826.

UH, WE ARE REQUESTING IT TO BE INCREASED TO 314,926.

AND AGAIN, UH, THAT IS ENTIRELY SIMPLY THE COLAS.

IF YOU SWITCH TO THE NEXT PAGE, YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT, UH, MORE CLEAR OF A BREAKDOWN OF, UH, THE SALARIES AND FRINGE THAT THAT ACCOUNTS FOR.

UH, AND WE HAVE NOT INCREASED TRAVEL FOR I THINK ABOUT SIX YEARS.

UM, WE HAVE NOT INCREASED PROFESSIONAL IMPROVEMENT.

OUR TELEPHONE COSTS ARE THE SAME, AND OUR OFFICE OPERATIONS ARE THE SAME AS THEY WERE, UH, AT LEAST THE LAST TIME THAT I WAS HERE IN 2019.

SO, UH, ON THE SALARIES AND FRINGES, IT'S A SIX AND A HALF PERCENT CHANGE.

BUT OVERALL BUDGETARILY, IT'S A 5.39% CHANGE.

AND THEN THERE'S, UH, JUST A QUICK BREAKDOWN OF, UH, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, THE COUNTY GETS.

UH, BY PARTNERING WITH EXTENSION, UH, YOU CAN LOOK PURELY AT SOME OF THE NUMBERS.

UH, 40 INDIVIDUAL CONSULTATIONS WITH FARMERS, UH, BY OUR AG EDUCATOR, ANDY NESS.

UH, THAT'S VALUED AT $55,000.

UH, THE VALUE OF 583 NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT PLANS COVERING ALMOST 10,000 ACRES.

UH, THAT'S ANOTHER $53,000.

THEN THE VOLUNTEER HOURS BY OUR FOUR H VOLUNTEERS AND BY OUR MASTER GARDENER VOLUNTEERS, UH, IS ALMOST $350,000, UM, BY INDEPENDENT SECTOR DOT ORGS, UH, VOLUNTEERING, UM, UH, UH, THEIR DETERMINATION OF A VOLUNTEER HOUR BEING WORTH 29 95 PER HOUR, UH, IN RETURN TO THE COMMUNITY.

THEN THERE'S SOME LESS QUANTIFIABLE THINGS THAT I'LL LET YOU TAKE A LOOK AT AS YOU'VE, UH, GOT A CHANCE TO DO THAT.

UM, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBER OF FOUR H CLUBS, NUMBER OF FOUR H MEMBERS, NUMBER OF LE CLASSES TAUGHT, UM, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

SO I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY, UH, COUNSEL, ANY QUESTIONS? MS. MOON, YOU USED TO TEST PRESSURE, CANNING PRESSURE.

YOU STILL DO THAT? I STILL CAN WE STILL DO? YOU DO? OKAY.

TO MAKE SURE THAT THE EDUCATOR THAT DOES THAT IS THERE.

YOU CONTACT OUR OFFICE, UH, THEY CAN GET YOU SET UP.

UH, YOU DO NEED AN APPOINTMENT

[05:05:01]

CERTAINLY DRIVES OLD CARS TOO.

YEAH, , I'M SORRY, I MISSED THAT.

MR. TIBS, SHE DRIVES OLD CARS.

OH, .

THEY HAVE BEEN VERY, UH, I, I, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT WORD TO SAY, BUT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SOUNDING THEIR HORN LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN DOING HERE IN THE COUNTY.

UH, AS YOU, AS THEY SAID, HOW MANY VOLUNTEER HOURS ARE, ARE SPENT HERE IN THE COUNTY ON FOUR H ON YOUTH AND ON DIFFERENT PROGRAMS FOR MASTER GARDENERS.

IT'S, IT'S QUITE, AND THE COUNTY'S ONLY PUTTING IN THIS SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY AND, AND IT'S, IT'S TO THE COUNTY'S BENEFIT.

AND, UH, WE HAD THE UNIVERSITY WANTED, UH, TO TAKE ALL THE MONEY THAT THE COUNTY PUTS IN AND BRING IT DOWN TO THE UNIVERSITY AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO THE COUNTY.

AND FORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A ECON ECONOMIC, LET ME SAY EXTENSION ADVISORY COMMISSION THAT WORKS WITH THIS EXTENSION OFFICE, AND IT'S BEEN COMPLETELY REDONE AGAIN.

AND, UH, WE WERE ABLE TO FIND THE BILL OF, I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT MEMORANDUM AS HAL, THIS MONEY IS JUST SPENT IN HERE IN THE COUNTY, AND WE WERE ABLE TO CONVINCE THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND THAT, HEY, THE COUNTY CAN SPEND IT BETTER.

WE DON'T NEED YOUR HELP DOING THIS.

AND, UH, THIS IS A VERY, VERY ECONOMICALLY, UM, PART OF EDUCATION AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, OF PEOPLE HERE IN THE COUNTY.

YOU KEEP THESE PEOPLE IN FOUR H AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN OTHER PLACES.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU, MR. TIBBS.

ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

SO, AS SOIL CONSERVATION COMES UP, I'LL JUST TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGE FIVE 90.

IN THE BOOK WHERE THEIR BUDGET IS, UM, THEY HAVE A PROPOSED BUDGET OF 613,197.

THAT IS A, UH, DE NET DECREASE OF 25,189, WHICH IS MADE UP OF A COMBINATION OF SOME, UM, ADJUSTMENTS FROM THE PERSONNEL SIDE DUE TO THE 27TH PAY.

AND THE HEALTH BENEFIT CALCULATION PARTIALLY OFFSET BY A, UH, INCREASE, UH, FOR CONTRIBUTIONS FOR THE ENVIROTHON AND URBAN CONSERVATION PLANNING.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

I GUESS MY MIC IS ON.

OF THE DRIVING FACTORS IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND IS A COOPERATIVE EFFORT TO ADDRESS THE CHESAPEAKE BAY.

UM, YES, DEAR PRESIDENT PATRICK VAIN AND DISTINGUISHED MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

UM, I REPRESENT THIS, UH, AS YOU MENTIONED, UH, HARTFORD SOLE CONSERVATION DISTRICT.

UM, I WOULD EXTEND APOLOGIES, UH, FOR OUR CHAIRMAN, LEE MCDANIEL.

HE COULD NOT ATTEND TODAY.

UH, HE HAD EVERY INTENTION TO BE HERE TODAY BECAUSE OF THE, OBVIOUSLY THE NEW MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

UM, HE'S A VERY DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN, AND YOU NEED TO MEET HIM AT SOME POINT.

UM, BUT HE HAD A MEDICAL ITEM THAT DEVELOPED, UM, SO HE HAD TO GO TO THE DOCTORS TODAY, AND HE JUST, IT JUST COULD NOT WORK OUT FOR HIM TO COME.

BUT THAT PACKET THAT I SENT GAVE YOU, UM, IS PARTIALLY DUE TO HIS, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE INTENT IS TO HELP KIND EXPLAIN WHO WE ARE, UH, AS BRIEFLY GO GO THROUGH THAT.

UM, FIRST YOU'LL FIND OUR 2022 HIGHLIGHTS, UM, ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

UH, BRIEF DESCRIPTION, DESCRIPTION OF THE FUNCTION, RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DISTRICT ARE, ARE STAFFING NUMBERS.

UM, YOU ALSO FIND, UM, UM, NOTE, UM, THAT OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY IN THERE, IS THE FACT THAT HARTFORD SOIL COUNTRY EAST DISTRICT, UM, IS A SUB POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE.

UH, WE ARE GIVEN CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITIES AND PRIVILEGES, BUT ONE IS NOT TO, UM, OBVIOUSLY TO, UM, GENERATE REVENUE.

SO WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO WORK WITH THE COUNTY AND THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

YOU ALSO SEE IN THERE, UM, ITEM OF OUR PI, SIMPLE PIE CHART OF A DIRECT FUNDING SOURCES, AND THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY, UM, THE HARTFORD COUNTY AS WELL AS M MDA.

UM, WE ALSO HAVE A DIRECTORY OF OUR OFFICE, UH, SH SHOWS YOU, UM, WHO OUR STAFF ARE, ALSO THE BOARD MEMBERS AS WELL FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

WE ALSO INCLUDED OUR 2023 2026 STRATEGIC PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED BY A BOARD BACK IN THE FALL OF 22.

UH, A LOT OF WORK WENT INTO THAT.

A, UM, SPECIAL SESSION WAS PROVIDED TO GET FEEDBACK OF SEVERAL PARTNERS, UM, WITHIN THE COUNTY AND WITHIN THE STATE.

UM, AND SO THAT WE ARE IN A PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING THAT AND ALREADY WORKING ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THAT.

UM, OUR WORK IS CONTINUING.

UM, ONE

[05:10:01]

UM, THEY FORMULATED THE WATERSHED IMPLEMENTATION PLAN SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

THAT'S HAD DIFFERENT STAGES.

WE'RE IN THE PHASE THREE RIGHT NOW, THAT WILL CONCLUDE IN 2025.

SO A LOT, OUR FOCUS AGRICULTURALLY IS OBVIOUSLY, WHICH GOES BACK TO OUR ROOTS, IS ADDRESSING EROSIONS CONTROL OR ADDRESSING EROSION AND ALSO IMPROVING WATER QUALITY.

SO THE MAJORITY OF THE PRACTICES THAT WE, UM, BASICALLY HELP DESIGN OR PROMOTE WILL DO SUCH THAT, UM, AND ALSO SOME OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES THAT YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE.

WE, WE HAVE BASICALLY TWO SECTORS.

WE HAVE, ONE IS DEVOTED TO AGRICULTURE, AND THAT WE WORK ONE-ON-ONE WITH FARMERS, UH, DEVELOPING WHAT WE CALL A SOIL CONSERVATION WATER QUALITY PLANS.

AND ALSO WITH THOSE, WE MAKE AN ASSESSMENT OF THE FARMS AND SEE IF THERE'S AREAS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT WE CALL REFER TO AS, UH, RESOURCE CONCERNS.

AND FROM THAT, STEMMING FROM THAT IS THE FACT THAT WE WILL DEVISE, UH, PRACTICES TO AUGMENT THOSE, UH, WHETHER IT'S ADDRESSING MANURE, UH, STORAGE, UM, OR EVEN RUNOFF FROM THE FIELD.

UM, ALSO WE HAVE, UH, WE HANDLE THE EROSION CONTROL, SEMI CONTROL REVIEWS FOR THE COUNTY, AND ALSO WE HANDLE THE FOREST HARVEST PERMITS.

UM, I KNOW THAT TIME IS SHORT, SO I, I DID WANT TO THANK AGAIN, THIS OPPORTUNITY.

UM, I DO BELIEVE THAT THE OFFICE OF BUDGET MANAGEMENT HAS DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE TO SECURE, MAKE SURE OUR, OUR BUDGET WAS REASONABLE.

AND I KNOW THAT THEY MADE SOME CUTS WHERE THEY COULD.

UM, AND I'M JUST HERE ON BEHALF OF THE DISTRICT TO ASK THE, THE COUNCILORS TO CONSIDER THAT BUDGET.

DO ME A FAVOR, SIR.

WHEN YOU GO BACK, YOU GIVE LEE MCDANIEL OUR BEST, OKAY? YES, SIR.

AND THEN ALSO TELL BRUCE HIERS I SAID HELLO, IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO HIM.

HE'S A GOOD MAN.

COUNCILMAN.

ANY, ANYONE? THANK YOU, SIR.

UM, SO THIS WILL CONCLUDE OUR AFTERNOON.