[a. Resolution 017-24 (Enterprise Zone 1203 Technology Drive) ]
          [00:00:05]
          GOOD EVENING. CHAIR CALLS TO ORDER. PUBLIC HEARING FOR RESOLUTION ZERO 17. DASH 24 ENTERPRISE ZONE 1203 TECHNOLOGY DRIVE. MISS HOLT, IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME FORWARD. GOOD EVENING. 
          WHENEVER YOU'RE READY. GOOD EVENING, PRESIDENT VICENTE. COUNCIL MEMBERS, PULL YOUR MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER. KAREN. THERE YOU GO. AND IF I MAY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, I HAVE A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION THAT WOULD INTRODUCE IN SUCCESSION. 
          IF I CAN JUST DO. SURE. GREAT. ALL RIGHT. I COME BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING TO INTRODUCE OUR RESOLUTIONS FOR FREE ENTERPRISE ZONE REQUESTS. FOR JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT WITH THE ENTERPRISE ZONE, IT IS A TOOL FOR OUR CORRIDOR. THE MAP REFLECTS RUNS PRIMARILY ALONG THE ROUTE 40 CORRIDOR AND FROM MARYLAND ROUTE SEVEN UP THROUGH HAVRE DE GRACE TO THE COUNTY LINE AT THE SUSQUEHANNA. THE ENTERPRISE ZONE PROVIDES REAL PROPERTY AND STATE INCOME TAX CREDITS FOR BUSINESSES LOCATED IN THE MARYLAND ENTERPRISE ZONE. IN RETURN FOR JOB CREATION AND OR CAPITAL INVESTMENT. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT, INVESTMENT AND THE DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. OUR ROLE BEFORE A PROPOSAL GOES TO THE STATE, THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION IS JUST TO VERIFY THAT THE PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE ENTERPRISE ZONE AND THEN THE ROLE OF THE COUNTY COUNCIL IS TO OFFER APPROVAL BASED ON THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION SUPPORTING THEIR ELIGIBILITY. AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE ELIGIBILITY. IT ACTUALLY IS THE STATE THAT WILL AUTHORIZE THOSE TAX CREDITS. SO ACTIVE IS THE GREATER ABERDEEN HAVRE DE GRACE ENTERPRISE ZONE. IT'S COMPRISED OF A LITTLE OVER 9700 ACRES. AND SINCE 2006 HAS HAD $418 MILLION IN CAPITAL INVESTMENT. WE DID PREVIOUSLY HAVE THE EDGEWOOD, JOPPA ENTERPRISE ZONE THAT SUNSET IN JUNE OF 24. IT HAD A LESS INVESTMENT IN THAT AREA AND ABOUT HALF OF THE AMOUNT OF ACREAGE. BUT ALL THREE PROPERTIES TODAY DO OCCUR WITHIN THE ABERDEEN, HAVRE DE GRACE ENTERPRISE ZONE. SO OUR FIRST PROPERTY IS 1203 TECHNOLOGY DRIVE. IT IS THE TECHNOLOGY DRIVE INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES LLC. THE CAPITAL INVESTMENT ON THIS PROJECT IS $15.7 MILLION AND ANTICIPATED BETWEEN 50 AND 150 NEW JOBS. THAT RANGE IS INDICATIVE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S BUILT ON SPECULATION. IT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION CURRENTLY, AND LOOKING AT MARKET ASSESSMENT OF FACILITY OF ITS SIZE, WHICH IS 255,000FT■!S. WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT JOB CREATION. AS I SAID, IT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION. YOU CAN SEE THE CLEARING IN THE PHOTO BELOW. WE DO ANTICIPATE COMPLETION OF THAT BY JUNE OF 25. AND THIS IS IN COUNCIL DISTRICT E, WHICH IS COUNCIL MEMBER. BOYLE SADDLES PROSPECTING HAS BEEN ENCOURAGING FOR THIS PROPERTY. IT IS APPROVED AS A DISTRIBUTION WAREHOUSE. BUT TO DATE WE HAVE HAD SEVERAL INQUIRIES WITH REGARD TO A MANUFACTURING NATURE. SO WE'RE ENCOURAGED BY THAT ACTIVITY. THE NEXT PROPERTY IS OLD BAY INDUSTRIAL LLC, AND THAT'S AT 350 OLD BAY LANE IN 
          [b. Resolution 018-24 (Enterprise Zone 350 Old Bay Lane)]
HAVRE DE GRACE. THIS IS A CAPITAL INVESTMENT OF $13 MILLION, AND PROJECTED NEW JOBS ARE 15 TO 20. AND THIS IS COUNCIL DISTRICT F, WHICH IS COUNCIL MEMBER BENNET'S DISTRICT. THIS IS A LOCATED WITHIN A MUNICIPALITY. SO PRIOR TO COMING BEFORE YOU TONIGHT, IT REQUIRED A MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE FROM THE CITY OF HAVRE DE GRACE. THAT PROCESS HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED AND APPROVED. THE FACILITY IS 100 AND LITTLE OVER 157,000FT■!S, AND IT'S CURRENTLY OCCUPIED ALREADY BY PLASTIPAK, WHO DID AN EXPANSION IN THAT LOCATION. AND TODAY THERE ARE OF THE 15 TO 20 ANTICIPATED, THERE ARE 16 EMPLOYEES WORKING AT THAT SITE. AND THEN THE LAST PROPERTY 
          [c. Resolution 019-24 (Enterprise Zone 1525 S Philadelphia Blvd) ]
IS K MECHANICAL LLC AND ARE LOCATED AT 1525 SOUTH PHILADELPHIA BOULEVARD IN ABERDEEN. THIS IS SCOTT AND CHRIS KILLIAN. ESTABLISHED IN 2008, IT'S A COMMERCIAL HVAC 
          [00:05:04]
COMPANY, 3200FT■!S FACILITY TO EXPAND FOR SUPPLIES AND EQUIPMENT. IT DOES COME WITH TWO NEW JOBS, AND IT'S AGAIN IN COUNCIL MEMBER BENNET'S DISTRICT F. SO ALL THREE OF THE APPROVAL REQUESTS MET THE ELIGIBILITY, WHICH IS A MINIMUM OF $100,000 IN INVESTMENT AND AT LEAST TWO JOBS. COLLECTIVELY, THEY REPRESENT $28.8 MILLION IN NEW CAPITAL INVESTMENT. 
          APPROXIMATELY 34 ACRES AND BETWEEN 67 TO 170 NEW JOBS. BASED ON ACTUAL IMPLEMENTATION, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT 50% OF THE TAX CREDIT THAT THE COUNTY WOULD INCENTIVIZE THROUGH THE LEGISLATION WOULD BE REIMBURSED BY THE STATE. AND TO GIVE A CONTEXT, THE TEN YEAR NET REVENUE. SO NEW TAXES, LESS THE COUNTY'S CREDIT COST. TECH DRIVE WOULD BE 2.1 MILLION. OLD BAY LANE WOULD BE 1.1 MILLION, AND K MECHANICAL WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 50,000, COLLECTIVELY GENERATING $3.3 MILLION. THE PROCESS GOING FORWARD, FOLLOWING COUNCIL APPROVAL, THE LEGISLATION IS FORWARDED TO THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND TO START TO MEET THE DECEMBER DEADLINE. AND THAT PUTS IT IN EFFECT FOR SPRING ASSESSMENTS IN 2025. SO FINAL FIGURES WILL DEPEND UPON THE ON SITE ASSESSMENT OF EACH PROPERTY THAT GETS CONDUCTED BY STAT IN THE SPRING. AND I'M BEFORE YOU REQUESTING APPROVAL OF THE ENTERPRISE ZONE RESOLUTIONS AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU, MISS HOLT. COUNCIL, IF I MAY, I'D LIKE TO REFER TO BOTH COUNCIL MEMBERS FIRST THAT THESE ARE IN THEIR DISTRICTS AND MISS BOSWELL'S COUNCIL PRESIDENT, YOU ONLY OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR RESOLUTION 1724. SO WHICH IS THE 1203? IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT AND THEN CLOSE THAT AND THEN OPEN PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR 18 AND 19. THANK YOU. MR. IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON 1724. THANK YOU, COUNCIL PRESIDENT. AND THANK YOU, MISS HOLT, FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND OUR MEETING IN SEPTEMBER. THAT WAS GREAT. JUST A QUICK QUESTION. THERE ARE THE THREE PROPERTIES ON TECHNOLOGY DRIVE. I'M WONDERING IF THE OTHER TWO PROPERTIES WILL APPLY FOR THIS CREDIT AS WELL. SO CURRENTLY THE ABERDEEN HAVRE DE GRACE ENTERPRISE ZONE IS EFFECTIVE THROUGH 2026. SO THE FIRST BUILDING IS COMPLETED IN 25. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE BRINGING THEM INDIVIDUALLY. WE WOULD HAVE TO SEE WHERE THE PROPERTIES TWO AND THREE COME INTO PLAY. BUT IT IS OUR ANTICIPATION THAT WE WOULD SEEK AN EXTENSION FOR THE ENTERPRISE ZONE PROPERTY. WE'VE HAD HEALTHY ACTIVITY IN THIS AREA. IT DOES FOCUS ON, YOU KNOW, TECH PARKS AND INDUSTRIAL OPPORTUNITIES. SO IT IS FEASIBLE THAT THEY WOULD COME FORWARD AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND IS THERE ANY UPDATE ON PERMITTING AS FAR AS THAT THIRD BUILDING? I BELIEVE IT WAS NUMBER THREE. 
          YEAH. NOT TO DATE. AND AGAIN, ANOTHER BUILDING WOULD OCCUR BEFORE THAT ONE. BUT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES WITH RESOLVING SOME ROAD THRUWAY IN THAT AREA PRIOR TO THAT ONE BEING APPROVED. SO CURRENTLY IT IS NOT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MISS. DOES ANYONE ELSE WITH QUESTIONS ON ZERO 1724 MR. PENMAN. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. MISS HOLT, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I REALLY APPRECIATE INCENTIVES LIKE THE ENTERPRISE ZONES TO DRIVE OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. SO I'M HAPPY TO SEE THESE. AND, COUNCILWOMAN HAS ASKED THAT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD, PARTICULARLY TO THIS PROJECT. AND THEN YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT THE ROAD. THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ROAD ON BUILDING THREE. IS THE ADMINISTRATION AND ADMINISTRATION SUPPORTIVE OF PROVIDING THAT ACCESS TO THE ROADWAY TO ALLOW BUILDING THREE TO MOVE FORWARD? TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE IS ONGOING DISCUSSION WITH IT. I MEAN, IT HAS NOT BEEN IT HAS NOT BEEN DENIED AT THIS POINT, BUT THERE ARE SOME PIECES THAT HAVE TO BE WORKED THROUGH BY THE DEVELOPER PRIOR TO BRINGING THAT FORWARD FOR PERMIT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN. MR. JANARDHANA. GOOD EVENING, MISS HOLT. THANK YOU, MISS HALL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IS THERE IF IT GOES MANUFACTURING? IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND THAT FOOTPRINT, THAT BUILDING SIZE? I BELIEVE AT THIS POINT. 255 WAS WAS GRANTED. I MEAN, THAT IS THE PLAN. BUT I MEAN THAT THE AREA THAT THAT PROPERTY SITS ON, IF A MANUFACTURER CAME IN THERE, LET'S SAY IT WAS LIKE A BATTERY MANUFACTURER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEY NEEDED 350 OR 400,000. IS THAT SITE BIG ENOUGH THAT THEY CAN EXPAND TO GO TO THAT? THE SITE ITSELF IS YES. THE BUILDING IS DESIGNED. AND AGAIN, I MENTIONED A COUPLE 
          [00:10:01]
HEALTHY PROSPECT ACTIVITIES. IT SEEMS TO FIT WHAT THE INTEREST IS FOR MANUFACTURING CURRENTLY. 
          OKAY. AND I THINK THAT'S THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. GIORDANO. MR. RILEY. YES, KAREN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME THE SUNSET ON EDGEWOOD? JOPPA ENTERPRISE ZONE? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO A AN ENTERPRISE ZONE IS GOOD FOR TEN YEARS, AND YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RENEW IT. IT'S AT THE DISCRETION OF THE JURISDICTION. AND BASICALLY, WE WEREN'T FINDING THE TYPE OF JOB CREATION COMING OUT OF THE ENTERPRISE ZONE IN THAT AREA FOR THAT, THAT MERIT. WE DO HAVE OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD, OUR LAND USE STUDY, LIKE ASSESSING WHAT OTHER INCENTIVES COULD BE CONCENTRATED ON THAT AREA. THIS HAS SUCCESSFULLY WORKED MORE IN LIKE INDUSTRIAL PARKS AND THINGS THAT ARE MORE COMMON IN THE ABERDEEN HAVRE DE GRACE AREA. BUT WE'VE ONLY TO GIVE YOU CONTEXT. THERE'S ONLY BEEN LIKE SEVEN IN THE EDGEWOOD JOPPA TOWN AREA, SO WE'VE SEEN A LOT MORE ACTIVITY IN THE ABERDEEN. WE JUST DID NOT PURSUE THAT BECAUSE WE THINK THERE ARE SOME MORE TARGETED INCENTIVES THAT COULD BE MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE COUNTY. THANKS. THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS ON 1724, WE'LL MOVE TO 1824. MR. BENNETT. HELLO. GOOD EVENING. I KNOW WHEN WE MEET. 
          IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT WHETHER WE LIKE OR DISLIKE. IT'S ABOUT WHETHER IT QUALIFIES. BUT I DO THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT WE SAID IN OUR CONVERSATION THAT REALLY OLD BAY LANE IS THE MODEL OF WHAT WE THINK THE ENTERPRISE ZONE SHOULD BE USED FOR AND WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE. YOU KNOW, THIS WAS SPACE THAT WAS ALREADY BEING USED BUT REVITALIZED, NOT GREEN SPACE, OPEN SPACE BEING TORN UP FOR THE SAKE OF PUTTING SOMETHING. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE NOTE OF THAT. I DID HEAR IN YOUR CONVERSATION WITH COUNCILWOMAN BOYLE THAT YOU PLAN ON RENEWING THE ABERDEEN HAVRE DE GRACE ENTERPRISE ZONE IN TWO YEARS. IT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION. WE WOULD LOOK AT ACTIVITY. AND CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THIS IS AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM. WE HAVE LIMITED INCENTIVES HERE IN HARFORD COUNTY. AND THERE'S OFTEN CHALLENGES OF THAT. IT'S NOT OUR PROGRAM. WE'RE INTERMEDIARIES TO ADMINISTER. BUT THERE IS OFTEN CHALLENGES AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE SIDE TO REEVALUATE THIS PROGRAM. WE'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL TO DATE. SO GIVEN THOSE CONDITIONS, IT IS SOMETHING WE WOULD CONSIDER. MAYBE MY OFFICE CAN REACH OUT TO YOU ALL AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND TO MR. SANDLAS. AND BECAUSE I JUST KNOW PARTICULARLY IN MY DISTRICT, WHICH WAS REALLY TOUCHED HEAVILY BY BOTH ENTERPRISE ZONES, THE TOPIC OF ENTERPRISE ZONES HAS BEEN CONTENTIOUS NOW FOR SEVERAL YEARS. SO I WOULD JUST LOVE TO SIT DOWN AND HEAR THE RATIONALE AND REASONING AND MATH TO KNOW THE PROS AND CONS OF EITHER CONTINUING OR SUNSETTING THE ABERDEEN GRACE ENTERPRISE ZONE. THANK YOU. I WOULD WELCOME THAT. 
          AND YOU KNOW, TO YOUR POINT WITH THE HAVRE DE GRACE PROPERTY, IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE. A LOT OF TIMES WE USE THIS AS AN ATTRACTION TOOL. BUT YOU KNOW, HERE'S A GREAT EXAMPLE WHERE WE HAD AN INVESTOR COME IN, BUILD A FACILITY AND IT GOT TO BE A RETENTION. AND EXPANSION TOOL AS WELL. THANK YOU. COUNCIL. ANYONE ELSE WITH 1824 QUESTIONS? MISTER BENNETT HOW ABOUT 1924? ON THIS PROPERTY AGAIN IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS. BUT REALLY JUST BARELY. YOU KNOW, THEY ESTIMATE TWO JOBS, WHICH IS THE BARE MINIMUM. THEY ESTIMATE INVESTING $175,000, WHICH IS JUST BARELY ABOVE THE $100,000 THAT THEY NEED. IS THERE ANY FOLLOW UP OR FOLLOW THROUGH TO ENSURE THAT THOSE NUMBERS REMAIN ACCURATE WHEN THE WORK IS DONE? YOU KNOW, TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT $96,000 THAT GETS INVESTED INTO YOU KNOW, JUST SO THAT THE PROPERTY REMAINS QUALIFIED TO BE IN THE ENTERPRISE ZONE AND RECEIVE THE TAX CREDIT. YES. NO, IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD QUESTION. SINCE WE MET, I'VE BEEN OUT TO VISIT THE SITE TWICE. I'VE WALKED THE PROPERTY WITH THEM, I'VE SEEN THE FACILITY AND I'VE CHECKED ON THE EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES THERE AS WELL. PERFECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MISTER BENNETT. COUNCIL. ANY QUESTIONS? ON 1924? MISS DIXON, DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR 1718 OR 1924? THERE'S NO ONE SIGNED UP, MR. PRESIDENT. ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS WILL GO AHEAD AND CONCLUDE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR ZERO 17 EIGHT ZERO. 1724. ZERO 1824 AND ZERO 1924. AND THEY WILL ALL BE CONSIDERED AT A FUTURE MEETING. THANK YOU, MISS HOLT. THANK YOU, 
          [d. Bill 24-032 (Tax Credit For Properties Near Refuse Disposal System)]
          [00:15:05]
PRESIDENT. NEXT WOULD BE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR BILL 20 4-0 32 TAX CREDIT FOR PROPERTIES NEAR REFUSE DISPOSAL SYSTEM. MR. SANDERS. NO POWERPOINT FOR THIS ONE. NO BACK UP. GOOD EVENING SIR. COUNCIL PRESIDENT, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. THIS IS LEGISLATION THAT COMES BEFORE YOU EACH AND EVERY YEAR SINCE THE EARLY 1990S. THE IDEA HERE IS TO PROVIDE SOME FORM OF COMPENSATION TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT LIVE NEAR THE LANDFILL, THE SCARBOROUGH LANDFILL, OUT TO A LANDFILL IS SOMETHING THAT I SHOULD PUT THIS OVER HERE, THAT EVERYONE IN THE COUNTY BENEFITS, BUT THE COST OF THE LANDFILL IS PROBABLY DISPROPORTIONATELY BORNE BY THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE WITHIN CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THE LANDFILL. SO WE WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE A FULL TAX CREDIT, BOTH THE I'M SORRY, BOTH THE GENERAL FUND AND THE HIGHWAYS PORTION OF THE PROPERTY TAX BILL, WHICH IS ABOUT $0.98 PER $100 OF ASSESSED VALUE. FULLY TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT LIVE IN THOSE AREAS. NOW THEY WOULD STILL HAVE YOUR YOUR BAY RESTORATION FEE OR ANY STATE TAXES OR THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THEY STILL DO RECEIVE A TAX BILL. BUT AS FAR AS THEIR COUNTY TAXES GO, THOSE ARE THOSE ARE WAIVED. THEY ARE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION EACH AND EVERY YEAR, AND THAT THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO APPROVE THE LIST OF THE OF THE PROPERTIES BEFORE THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR. AND THIS WILL BE FOR THIS UPCOMING TAX YEAR THAT WE DO IN JULY OF NEXT YEAR. SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 35 HOMES THAT QUALIFY. IT HAS TO BE A PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL HOME. SO IF YOU RENTED OR IT'S A SECOND HOME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT DOESN'T QUALIFY. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, SOMETIMES WE HAVE DO HAVE SOME FLUCTUATION FROM YEAR TO YEAR OF 1 OR 2 HOMES IN EITHER DIRECTION. BUT IT'S TYPICALLY AROUND 3535 HOMES. AND THE COST TO THE COUNTY IS APPROXIMATELY $80,000 OF FOREGONE REVENUE. THANK YOU, MR. SALAS. COUNCIL, ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME? MR. BENNETT? HELLO, MR. SANDERS. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY. WHAT ABOUT IF THERE WERE TO EVER BE AN EXPANSION OF THE NUMBER, IF SOMEONE WAS TO BUILD NEW CONSTRUCTION NOW? SO WOULD THEY STILL QUALIFY? SO AT THE AT. YES. SO IF AT THE AND LIKEWISE TO IF THE LANDFILL ITSELF WERE TO EXPAND AND THEN THAT WOULD THEN ENVELOP OTHER STUFF. SO YES AS LONG AS IT'S PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL AND IS IN THAT, IN THAT AREA THEY WOULD THEN QUALIFY. SO IN THE PAST WE HAD WHEN WE HAD THE WASTE TO ENERGY PLANT DOWN IN THE JOPPA, MAGNOLIA AREA, THOSE INDIVIDUALS ALSO RECEIVED THIS TAX. SO LIKEWISE, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE EVER TO DO ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF THOSE BOUNDARIES, WE WOULD PROBABLY OF COURSE, IT WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE LEGISLATION, BUT WE WOULD EXTEND THOSE BENEFITS MOST LIKELY. 
          THANK YOU. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF IT APPLIED TO ONLY PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE BEFORE THE LANDFILL OR, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GRANDFATHERED IN. AND AGAIN, CERTAIN HOMES SEEM TO KIND OF GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN PRIMARY RESIDENCE AND RENTERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT. ANYONE ELSE? MISS DIXON, DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? NO SPEAKERS, MR. PRESIDENT. ALL RIGHT. WITH NO ONE SIGNED UP, THIS TO CONCLUDE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR BILL 24, DASH ZERO 32. AND IT WILL ALSO BE LOOKED AT A FUTURE MEETING. THANK YOU, MR. SANDERS. AND THEN 
          [e. Bill 24-033 (Impact Fees)]
BILL 20 4-0 33 IMPACT FEES. MR. FORGOT MR. TRUITT AS WELL. YEP. YEAH. NOW WE HAVE A POWERPOINT. 
          IN ORDER TO JUST MOVE IT JUST JUST KEEP THE ARROW ON THAT. OH, OKAY. FOR WHATEVER REASON, THIS IS. GOOD EVENING, GENTLEMEN. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING. CARSON. IT'S A PLEASURE TO SEE YOU AGAIN IN HARFORD COUNTY. WHENEVER YOU'RE READY. YES. SO, BRINGING FORTH LEGISLATION TO UPDATE THE IMPACT FEES. THE IMPACT FEES WERE ORIGINALLY ADOPTED APPROXIMATELY 20 YEARS AGO. AND THEY HAVE LARGELY BEEN UNCHANGED IN THAT PERIOD. THEY'RE ACTUALLY THE ORIGINAL LEGISLATION DID HAVE THEM ESCALATING. AND THEY WERE THEY DID IN FACT ESCALATE FOR A FEW YEARS. BUT THEN THEY WERE RESTORED BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL AMOUNTS, KIND OF IN THE MIDST OF THE GREAT RECESSION, THE GREAT ECONOMIC CRISIS OF 2008, 2009 AND SUBSEQUENT HOUSING, HOUSING DIFFICULTIES. WHEREAS IN THAT TIME PERIOD OUR SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION COSTS, WHICH IS HOW WE USE THE IMPACT FEES, HAS INCREASED ALMOST 300%. SO THE REVENUE HAS LARGELY STAYED THE SAME, WHILE THE COST HAVE HAVE INCREASED. SO UNDERSTANDING THIS, AND OF COURSE THERE WAS 
          [00:20:01]
CONCERNS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. COUNTY EXECUTIVE PUT TOGETHER A COMMITTEE TO KIND OF LOOK AT THIS, WHICH INCLUDED MEMBERS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION. THE COUNTY COUNCIL PRESIDENT, MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THE HARFORD COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOL STAFF, AS WELL AS CITIZEN MEMBERS AND INDIVIDUALS REPRESENTING THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY. TO GO ABOUT LOOKING AT IMPACT FEES. AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE DID WAS TO BRING ON BOARD AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT. 
          THE SAME OUTSIDE CONSULTANT WHO HAS DONE THE PREVIOUS STUDY FOR US AND WHO HAS DONE A LOT OF THE OTHER STUDIES FOR OTHER MARYLAND JURISDICTIONS TO LOOK AT IT, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WEREN'T JUST PICKING A NUMBER RANDOMLY OR JUST TRYING TO ASSIGN IT TO WHERE WE THOUGHT COSTS SHOULD GO, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO TO THAT END, CARSON BUYS FROM TISCHLER BICE. DID A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY CONSISTENTLY, I THINK KEPT THE WORKGROUP IN COMMUNICATION AND ANSWERED ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS AND THEN HELPED US KIND OF CRAFT A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE'RE HOPING TO PUT FORWARD. SO I'LL LET HIM GO AND SPEAK TO THE STUDY ITSELF. AND THEN I'LL HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER COMMENTS. AND THEN ALSO, I SHOULD NOTE THAT THIS WILL ALL BE UNDER IT'S STILL AND MR. PRUITT, WHO REALLY COLLECTS THE IMPACT FEES AND ADMINISTERS IT. SO IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS THERE IS RELATED TO THAT FORM OF THE IMPACT FEES HE'S AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AS WELL. THANK YOU ROBBIE. COUNCIL PRESIDENT, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. , I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S BEEN 20 YEARS SINCE I SAT HERE BEFORE YOU. IT SEEMS LIKE YESTERDAY. AND IN THAT TIME I'VE GOTTEN MARRIED AND HAVE TWO KIDS. SO IT'S CRAZY HOW TIME FLIES. SO GETTING INTO THE STUDY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT US, BECAUSE I KNOW THE MOST OF THE COUNCIL WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THE LAST STUDY. WE ARE BASED IN BETHESDA, MARYLAND AND BOISE, IDAHO. WE'RE THE NATIONAL LEADER IN IMPACT FEE ANALYSIS. WE'VE DONE MORE IMPACT FEES THAN ANY FIRM IN THE COUNTRY. WE ALSO SPECIALIZE IN IN FISCAL AND ECONOMIC IMPACT ANALYSIS AND MARKET STUDIES AND INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING STRATEGIES. AND YOU CAN SEE HERE WE'VE GOT A WIDE VARIETY OF EXPERIENCE IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IMPACT FEES IN GENERAL. THEY ARE ONE TIME PAYMENTS DESIGNED TO OFFSET NEW DEVELOPMENTS IMPACT ON VARIOUS INFRASTRUCTURE SYSTEMS. IN THIS CASE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SCHOOLS. WE CAN'T USE THE FEES FOR OPERATIONS, MAINTENANCE, INFRASTRUCTURE REPLACEMENT THAT SORT OF THING. IT'S NOT A TAX. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. I GO IN FRONT OF A LOT OF BODIES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE SOMEONE DESCRIBES AN IMPACT FEE AS A TAX ON NEW DEVELOPMENT AND A TAX IS PRIMARILY REVENUE RAISING IN NATURE. THERE'S NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE AMOUNT OF TAX PAID VERSUS THE AMOUNT OF SERVICES, OR THE AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE CONSUMED, AND A FEE IS TYPICALLY DESIGNED TO COVER THE COST OF SOMETHING. SO WHEN THE COUNTY SETS THE FEE FOR A SITE PLAN REVIEW, IT'S TYPICALLY DESIGNED TO COVER THE COST OF THEIR DIRECT AND INDIRECT OPERATING COSTS. WITH IMPACT FEES, WE HAVE TO MEET A BROADER SET OF STANDARDS. THERE'S ESSENTIALLY A THREE PRONGED LEGAL TEST WE HAVE TO MEET. THE FIRST IS WE HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE, DEMONSTRATE THROUGH THE STUDY THE NEXUS OR NEED, MEANING THAT THE COUNTY IS GOING TO GROW IN STUDENT ENROLLMENT, THAT GROWTH IS GOING TO NECESSITATE THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE. WE HAVE TO SHOW BENEFIT, AND WE SHOW BENEFIT IN TWO WAYS. ONE IS THROUGH THE TIMING OF THE EXPENDITURE, MEANING THAT WE JUST DON'T COLLECT SCHOOL IMPACT FEES AND LET THEM SIT IN AN ACCOUNT FOR 10 OR 15 YEARS WITHOUT SPENDING THEM. WE HAVE TO SPEND THEM IN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME SO THAT THE FEE PAYER RECEIVES THAT BENEFIT. THE SECOND PART OF BENEFIT IS GEOGRAPHIC, AND THAT SOMETIMES LEADS US, AND THIS IS NOT THE CASE IN HARFORD COUNTY, TO SET UP EXPENDITURE ZONES. AND THAT'S THAT TYPICALLY IS A SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TALE OF TWO COUNTIES WHERE ONE PART OF THE COUNTY IS VERY RURAL AND IS NOT RECEIVING GROWTH, BUT THE OTHER PART IS VERY SUBURBAN, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE BUILDING SCHOOLS. SO WE HAVE TO GUARD AGAINST, YOU KNOW, PAYING A FEE IN THE SOUTH. BUT BUILDING ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE NORTH OR, OR VICE VERSA IN THE EAST VERSUS THE WEST. AND THEN FINALLY, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FEES ARE PROPORTIONATE. 
          AND THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE THE FEES ARE VARY BY SIZE OF HOUSE OR TYPE OF HOUSE, BECAUSE TYPICALLY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES HAVE MORE STUDENTS, MORE PEOPLE THAN MULTIFAMILY UNITS. AND SO THE FEES HAVE TO BE COMMENSURATE WITH THAT DEMAND. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE HAVE TO GUARD AGAINST IN THE IMPACT FEE METHODOLOGY IS THE IDEA OF CREDITS. SO IF I'M A FEE PAYER, I'M GOING TO PAY THE COUNTY AN IMPACT FEE. BUT THERE'S A CHANCE THAT I MAY PAY OTHER REVENUES THAT GO TO THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURE THAT I PAID THE FEE FOR. SO THE BOTTOM TWO CREDITS HERE, THE DEBT SERVICE CREDIT AND THE DEDICATED REVENUES, THOSE ARE BAKED INTO THE METHODOLOGY, SO TO SPEAK. SO FOR INSTANCE, IF THE COUNTY HAS A DEDICATED PROPERTY TAX THAT GOES STRICTLY TO SCHOOL CAPACITY, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE IMPACT FEE METHODOLOGY HAS A CREDIT FOR THAT. OR IF THERE'S ANOTHER REVENUE SOURCE THAT'S DEDICATED TO THAT. IF YOU 
          [00:25:02]
HAVE EXISTING DEBT AND ARE PLANNING FUTURE DEBT, WE HAVE TO GUARD AGAINST A DOUBLE PAYMENT THERE. I'M GOING TO PAY YOU THE IMPACT FEE, BUT YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO PAY PROPERTY TAX THAT'S GOING TO RETIRE THAT DEBT. THE OTHER TYPE OF CREDIT IS SITE SPECIFIC AND THAT'S ADDRESSED IN YOUR ORDINANCE. BUT THE IDEA HERE IS THAT IF I'M A DEVELOPER AND I DEDICATE A PIECE OF LAND FOR AN ELEMENTARY OR MIDDLE SCHOOL OR HIGH SCHOOL, THAT THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT'S WORKED OUT THAT MAKES ME WHOLE, SO THAT I HAVEN'T PAID THE IMPACT FEE FOR THE LAND COMPONENT, AND THEN I'VE DOUBLE PAID BY ALSO HAVING PAID IMPACT FEES. SO IN TERMS OF THE HERTFORD COUNTY IMPACT FEE, THERE ARE TWO TWO COMPONENTS HERE. THAT IS THE CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL BRICK AND MORTAR CLASSROOM SPACE. AND THEN THERE'S A COMPONENT FOR FUTURE LAND PURCHASES. WE ARE USING WHAT'S CALLED A CONSUMPTION BASED APPROACH OR AN INCREMENTAL EXPANSION APPROACH THAT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, IS SOMEWHAT FORMULAIC IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT DIFFERENT METRICS. SO HOW MANY, HOW MANY SQUARE FEET IS IN AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT STATION VERSUS HOW MANY SQUARE FEET IS IN A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT STATION? HOW MANY ACRES OF LAND DO WE HAVE PER MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT STATION? COMPARED TO A HIGH SCHOOL, STUDENT STATION, ETCETERA? AND THEN WHAT DOES IT COST US TO BUY LAND? WHAT DOES IT COST US TO CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL BRICKS AND MORTAR AT THE HIGH SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL LEVELS? AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE TO HAVE THE CREDITS EVALUATED SO THERE'S A CREDIT FOR FUTURE PAYMENT ON EXISTING DEBT ISSUANCES. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A CREDIT ON FUTURE PAYMENTS ON ANTICIPATED DEBT ISSUANCES. SO THE FIRST STEP IS TO DETERMINE THE DEMAND INDICATORS. 
          AND IN THE CASE OF SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN BY TYPE OF HOUSE. AND WE'VE GOT FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING UNITS HERE. SINGLE FAMILY TOWNHOMES, APARTMENTS AND MOBILE HOMES. AND THIS IS BASED ON DATA COMPILED BY THE COUNTY'S PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT. AND THIS IS SORT OF MARYLAND SPECIFIC. WE'VE SEEN THIS IN THREE JURISDICTIONS IN MARYLAND. AND THAT IS THAT THE TOWNHOMES GENERATE SLIGHTLY MORE SCHOOL CHILDREN THAN A SINGLE FAMILY UNIT. AND AGAIN, THAT'S VERY MARYLAND SPECIFIC. NORMALLY WE SEE THE SINGLE FAMILY BEING HIGHER. SO THE WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS THAT A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE, IN SUMMARY, IF YOU HAD A HUNDRED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, YOU WOULD EXPECT TO GENERATE ABOUT 39 ADDITIONAL SCHOOL CHILDREN. OKAY. THAT'S THE WAY TO THINK ABOUT THESE PUPIL GENERATION RATES. APARTMENTS GENERATE THE LOWEST AND THEN MOBILE HOMES ARE AT ABOUT 30.32 OR 32 CHILDREN PER 100 UNITS. SECOND PART OF THE ANALYSIS IS WE HAVE TO PROJECT STUDENT ENROLLMENT GOING FORWARD. SO WHAT WE DID IS WE LOOKED AT HOUSING UNIT PROJECTIONS BASED ON THE DEVELOPMENT PIPELINE AND THEN APPLIED THOSE STUDENT GENERATION RATES THAT WE DISCUSSED IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE TO THESE PROJECTIONS. AND WE ARE PROJECTING OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS, A MINIMUM OF 2.6 OR EXCUSE ME, 2643 STUDENTS FROM ADDITIONAL HOUSING UNITS. NOW, THE HARDEST THING TO PROJECT WITH SCHOOL ENROLLMENT IS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE AN EXISTING BASE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE RECYCLING AS THEY TURN OVER AND GENERATE ADDITIONAL CHILDREN FOR OF COURSE, WE CANNOT COLLECT IMPACT FEES FOR BECAUSE THEY ARE EXISTING HOUSING UNITS. SO IN TERMS OF CURRENT LEVELS OF SERVICE, WE COMPARE THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN EACH SYSTEM ELEMENTARY, MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL TO THE OVERALL SQUARE FOOTAGE AND TO THE OVERALL ACREAGE TO DETERMINE WHAT THE STUDENT STATIONS ARE IN TERMS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO HERE WE ARE LOOKING AT 119FT■!S FOR THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, ABOUT 134FT■!S FOR THE MIDDLE SCHOOL LEVEL, AND ABOUT 153FT■!S FOR THE HIGH SCHL LEVEL. WE ALSO LOOK AT WHAT IT COSTS TO, TO ACQUIRE LAND. WE DON'T LIKE TO SPECULATE ON WHAT THE COUNTY WOULD WOULD SPEND IN THE FUTURE ON LAND, BECAUSE THAT'S UNKNOWN. SO WE TEND TO ON THE ON THE SIDE OF CONSERVATIVE. 
          AND SO WE LOOK AT WHAT RECENT LAND PURCHASE HAS BEEN AND THERE'S BEEN ONE RECENT LAND PURCHASE HERE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. AND THAT'S A $8 MILLION, 45 ACRES, WHICH WORKS OUT TO ABOUT $177,000 PER ACRE FOR FUTURE SCHOOL SITES. FOR CONSTRUCTION COSTS, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MOST RECENT COSTS PROVIDED BY DISTRICT STAFF, AND WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT THE STATE OF MARYLAND DOES PARTICIPATE TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF SCHOOLS. 
          AND RIGHT NOW, THE STATE IS EXPECTED TO PARTICIPATE IN ABOUT 58%. AND SO THE GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE COST IS $668 PER SQUARE FOOT. AND THE ADJUSTED COSTS ARE. THE LOCAL SHARE IS $281 A SQUARE FOOT. THERE WE GO. NEXT, WE GET INTO THE DEBT SERVICE CREDITS. I KNOW THIS IS A LOT TO 
          [00:30:11]
LOOK AT HERE, BUT WE HAVE CREDIT OF $5,745 ON EXISTING DEBT AND A 4000 $654,637 ON FUTURE DEBT. 
          AND THEN THIS TABLE HERE, AS WE WORK OUR WAY FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM, IT HAS ALL PULLS IN. ALL THOSE FACTORS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. SO AS WE WORK OUR WAY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, WE GET THOSE LEVEL OF SERVICE IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE PER STUDENT STATION AT EACH OF THE THREE SCHOOL LEVELS, THE AMOUNT OF OR. THEN WE LOOK AT THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT, AND THEN WE LOOK AT THE LAND AREA PER STUDENT STATION MULTIPLIED BY THE $177 PER ACRE TO GET OUR COST PER STUDENT THERE. AND THEN OUR WE HAVE A CAPITAL COST OR A GROSS CAPITAL COST HERE, SHOWN IN GRAY. THOSE RANGE FROM $39,614 FOR THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, 43,666 AT THE MIDDLE SCHOOL LEVEL, AND $49,395 AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVE. AND FROM THAT, WE DEDUCT THOSE TWO CREDITS, THE ONE FOR EXISTING DEBT SERVICE AND ONE FOR FUTURE DEBT SERVICE TO GET OUR NET CAPITAL COST PER STUDENT, WHICH RANGE ANYWHERE FROM $29,232 FOR ELEMENTARY TO A HIGH OF $39,013 AT THE HIGH & SCHOOL LEVEL. WE PLUG THOSE NUMBERS INTO THOSE STUDENT GENERATION RATES. WE TALKED ABOUT IN SLIDE THREE. I BELIEVE IT WAS TO GET OUR IMPACT FEES AT EACH SCHOOL LEVEL. SO IF WE LOOK AT A SINGLE FAMILY, DETACHED, IF WE WORK OUR WAY FROM FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FEE IS $5,029 PER UNIT, PLUS $3,005 FOR THE MIDDLE SCHOOL FEE, PLUS 4786 FOR THE HIGH SCHOOL FEE. FOR A TOTAL MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE OF $12,819. THE CURRENT IMPACT FEE IS $6,000 AND THE DIFFERENCE IS $6,819. HOWEVER, AS PART OF THE ENABLING LEGISLATION FOR HARFORD COUNTY, IT LIMITS YOU TO A MAXIMUM FEE OF $10,000, SO THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE SHOWS THE HIGHEST FEE THE COUNTY COULD CHARGE IF YOU WERE NOT SUBJECT TO THAT LIMITATION. SO THAT'S THE TRUE COST OF EDUCATING A CHILD IN HARFORD COUNTY FROM A CAPITAL PERSPECTIVE. OKAY. BUT YOU'RE STATUTORILY LIMITED TO 10,000. AND SO WE RECOMMEND THAT THE FEES BE. REDUCED COMMENSURATELY SO THAT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS WITH IMPACT FEES IS WE CAN'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LAND USES. SO WE HAVE TO DECREASE THEM ALL ACROSS THE BOARD. SO THEY'RE PROPORTIONATE TO THE SAME RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE IN THE MAXIMUM SUPPORT. AND THEN THIS SHOWS YOUR SCHOOL IMPACT FEE COMPARISON. AS YOU'RE PROBABLY AWARE, THERE ARE SEVERAL COUNTIES WITHIN THE STATE OF MARYLAND THAT THAT HAVE SCHOOL IMPACT FEES. SOME SOME OF THEM ARE ALSO CALLED IMPACT FEE OR IMPACT TAXES. I THINK MONTGOMERY COUNTY CALLS IT THAT. 
          SO IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, IT'S $30,343 PER UNIT. FREDERICK COUNTY IS 13 478 AND ARUNDEL IS 13,223. HARFORD COUNTY. YOUR MAXIMUM, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU CANNOT ADOPT IS 12,819. THE PROPOSED IS 10,000. IN YOUR CURRENT IS 6000. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, YOU SORT OF FALL RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN THE HIGHEST AND THE LOWEST RELATIVE TO OTHER COUNTIES THAT HAVE IMPACT FEES. AND FOR SCHOOLS AND STATE OF MARYLAND. AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT THE STUDY. THANKS, CARSON. I APPRECIATE THE FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT. ROBBIE, REFRESH MY MEMORY. HOW MANY MEETINGS DID WE HAVE? LET'S SEE. WE MET BEGINNING IN JANUARY AND PRETTY MUCH MET ONCE A MONTH. I WANT TO SAY ABOUT SIX, 6 OR 7 MEETINGS OR SO WITH MOST OF THOSE IN ATTENDANCE, FIVE IN ATTENDANCE. YES. AND THEN AS YOU RECALL, WHEN WE GOT OUR FIRST DRAFT, I GAVE IT TO MR. LEGGIT. SHE POINTED OUT TO THE STATE ENABLING LEGISLATION, WHICH PUT US BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD FOR A LITTLE BIT. BUT IN THAT TIME I MET WITH MUNICIPAL MAYORS IN THE COUNTY WITH THE PERSPECTIVE OF OR RESPECTIVE COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVES, WITH ABERDEEN, HAVRE DE GRACE AND BEL AIR. AND THEN WE'VE MET WITH SOME OTHER FOLKS IN THE INDUSTRY TRYING TO PUT THIS OUT SO THEY WOULD HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GOING ON. MY COLLEAGUES HAVE BEEN DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE, AND MOST OF THEM HAVE QUESTIONS TONIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO JUST LAY BACK. AND, MR. PRUITT, I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE THIS EVENING. 
          [00:35:04]
AND I'M GOING TO START WITH MR. BENNETT. HELLO. GOOD EVENING. FROM YOUR PRESENTATION, IT'S CLEAR THAT EVEN WITH THIS LEGISLATION, IF IT GETS PASSED, THERE'S A GAP BETWEEN THE COST AND THE RECEIPT. I THINK WE RUN INTO THAT ALL THE TIME WITH ALL SORTS OF FEES. YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT OUR 911 FEE AS AN EXAMPLE WHERE WE'RE STILL NOT QUITE COVERING WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO WITH THAT. THERE'S A GAP THAT EXISTS WITH YOUR OUTSIDER'S PERSPECTIVE. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE OUTREACHING AND WORKING WITH OUR DELEGATION TO HAVE THAT CAP RAISED, OR WHAT WOULD BE YOUR RECOMMENDATION THERE FOR US BEYOND THIS LEGISLATION? WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT'S THAT'S NOT FOR ME TO OPINE ON. I CAN JUST SHOW YOU WHAT THE WHAT THE TRUE COST IS. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY. WELL, I MEAN, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE DELEGATION, YOU KNOW, AS, AS TO THIS LIMITATION. YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY STARTED, YOU KNOW, $10,000 WAS A VERY HIGH AMOUNT BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WELL WITHIN WITHIN THE REASONABLE NOTE NATURE. AND THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE OF ANY TIME YOU SET A DOLLAR AMOUNT. THE SAME IS TRUE WHEN WE HAVE DOLLAR AMOUNTS FOR SPENDING THRESHOLDS. 1970 SOMETHING WHEN WE DID THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DID THE CHARTER, IT MIGHT HAVE MADE A LOT OF SENSE. IN 2024, IT'S NOT AS MUCH MONEY. WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT RIGHT NOW WE BRING IN AND IT VARIES FROM YEAR TO YEAR. BUT AROUND $3 MILLION A YEAR IN IMPACT FEES, SOME YEARS IT'S BEEN LOWER THAN 2 MILLION. SOME YEARS IT'S BEEN AROUND FOUR. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DEBT SERVICE THAT WE HAVE NOW, OUR TOTAL SCHOOL DEBT SERVICE IS AROUND $35 MILLION. BUT THE DEBT SERVICE THAT IS RELATED TO CAPACITY PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY DONE. SO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HERE WOULD BE LIKE RED PUMP ELEMENTARY OR WHEN WE ADDED SEATS AT BEL AIR OR ADDED SEATS IN EDGEWOOD YOUTH BENEFIT ELEMENTARY, WE HAVE ABOUT $7 MILLION OF THAT $35 MILLION IS RELATED. SO RIGHT NOW YOU KNOW WE HAVE A GAP STRAIGHT STRAIGHTFORWARD. AS WE LOOK INTO THE FUTURE. WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE THE NEW HOMESTEAD, WAKEFIELD ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE ALMOST $90 MILLION. NOW, NOT ALL OF THAT IS NEW CAPACITY, BUT A PORTION OF IT WILL BE WE WILL HAVE THE NEW HARFORD ACADEMY, WHICH WILL BE THE JOINT FACILITY BETWEEN THE OLD JOHN ARCHER FOR SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS, AND THEN ALSO A COMMUNITY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. THAT COMMUNITY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WILL BE A NEW SCHOOL. AND SO A GOOD PORTION OF THAT SCHOOL IS GOING TO COST $150 MILLION. AND SO A GOOD PORTION OF THAT WILL BE IMPACT FEE ELIGIBLE. AND THEN WE DEFINITELY KNOW ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN ABERDEEN WITH ALL THE NEW HOMES COMING IN AROUND RIPKEN STADIUM AND THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TWO THINGS THERE. 
          WE'RE GOING TO NEED LAND WHICH WHICH WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT'S GOING TO BE AND HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST, BUT I'M SURE IT WON'T BE CHEAP. AND THEN WE WILL HAVE TO BUILD A NEW SCHOOL AS WELL. AND THEN WE ALREADY HAVE. AND WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE OTHER POCKETS OF SOME DIFFICULTIES AS WELL. EVEN THE NEW HAVERTY GRACE MIDDLE HIGH SCHOOL, WHICH AT THE TIME HAD HAD PLENTY OF EXCESS CAPACITY, NOW HAS MORE OR LESS FILLED THAT UP. SO THERE'S GOING TO BE CERTAINLY OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE. AND WE KNOW THAT THE COSTS ARE ONLY GOING TO, YOU KNOW, ARE ONLY GOING TO INCREASE. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUILD THESE SCHOOLS, PURCHASE THIS LAND. AND SO IF WE DON'T WHAT THAT DOES IS IT IN ESSENCE IT CROWDS OUT OTHER SPENDING. SO SPENDING, YOU KNOW, THAT WE MIGHT OTHERWISE EITHER GO TOWARDS SAY SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, GENERAL IMPROVEMENTS, SAY LIKE THE MILTON WRIGHT MODERNIZATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR JUST OPERATING BUDGETS FOR THE SCHOOLS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT HAVE YOU. 
          SO IT ACTS AS KIND OF A CROWDING OUT. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE GROWTH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALWAYS THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE HERE, THEY WOULD SAY THAT FROM A FROM A PROJECT STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, CAPACITY IS ALWAYS KIND OF THEIR, THEIR, THEIR THEIR BIGGEST ISSUE. YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT. AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE KIND OF FALLS IN BEHIND IT. SO IT DOES CERTAINLY CROWD OUT OTHER SPENDING. SO I GUESS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL ARE ADVOCATING WITH OUR DELEGATION OR HAVING THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE DELEGATION ABOUT POSSIBLY ADJUSTING OUR CAP IN THE FUTURE. 
          I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS, WOULD PROBABLY WOULD SAY TO THE EXTENT IF MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC SHARE SHARE A SIMILAR BELIEF, YOU KNO, TO ALSO, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST YOU KNOW, LET THEM KNOW. I THINK ANYTIME WE HAVE LIMITATIONS, IT'S ALL LIMITATIONS ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO REACT TO SPENDING REALITIES. IT'S ALWAYS SOMEWHAT FRUSTRATING. AND IT'S NOT THAT THOSE THOSE CAPS PROBABLY WEREN'T PUT IN THERE OUT OF GOOD NATURE OR, YOU KNOW, OUT OF ILL INTENT, BUT IT LIMITS. IT LIMITS YOUR FLEXIBILITY. IT LIMITS OUR FLEXIBILITY. AND AGAIN, IT DOES CROWD OUT OTHER SPENDING BECAUSE THIS SPENDING IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE. THANK YOU, MR. SANDALS. IF ANYBODY UP THERE COULD SPEAK TO MONTGOMERY COUNTY, WHAT MAKES THEM SUCH AN OUTLIER AND WHAT THEIR IMPACT FEE IS SET TO WITH 
          [00:40:01]
IT BEING SO HIGH, IS THERE SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT ITS PURPOSE OR DESIGN THAT LEADS IT TO BE $30,000? I'M AFRAID I CAN'T SPEAK WITH ANY EXPERTISE ON WHAT MONTGOMERY COUNTY DOES. 
          WE HAVEN'T WORKED FOR THEM. AND AS I SAID, I THINK THEY CALL IT AN IMPACT TAX. THERE'S A LITTLE MORE LEEWAY THERE. IT'S MORE LIKE AN EXCISE TAX VERSUS A TRUE IMPACT FEE. THAT'S ALL I KNOW ABOUT IT. I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE TO THE VAGARIES OF ■THEIR CALCULATION. BUT BUT WE CERTAINLY DO KNOW THAT IN, IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE HIGHER LAND COSTS. 
          THEY ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO HAVE HIGHER LABOR COSTS AND MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE USING, SAY, PREVAILING WAGES FOR PROJECTS AND THE LIKE, WHICH ARE ALWAYS GOING TO DRIVE UP, YOU KNOW, DRIVE UP THOSE, THOSE COSTS. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE FREDERICK COUNTY AND ARUNDEL COUNTY, THEY'RE ALREADY IN A RELATIVE ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT WE EXPECT THE TRUE COST TO BE. SO TO SEE MONTGOMERY COUNTY SO MUCH HIGHER, IT WAS JUST INTERESTING TO ME. I COULD PROBABLY REACH OUT TO SOMEONE OUT THERE AND FIND OUT. AND THEN LASTLY, JUST A GENERAL COMMENT, BUT I THINK THERE MAY BE AMENDMENTS COMING FROM OTHERS, AND I JUST WANT TO OPENLY SAY I PERSONALLY WON'T SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF REVENUE GENERATED FROM OUR IMPACT FEES AS SET BY THIS LEGISLATION, SEEING PRESENTLY THAT EVEN WITH IT, THERE WILL BE A GAP THAT NEEDS TO BE FILLED. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT. MISS SANDERS, THANK YOU, COUNCIL PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THESE FEES CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY? MAYBE BY SQUARE FOOTAGE OR SALES PRICE, FOR EXAMPLE? POINT OF CLARIFICATION. YOU MEAN SQUARE FOOTAGE OF HOME, CORRECT? YES. THAT THAT CERTAINLY IS AN OPTION. AND WHAT ABOUT SALES PRICE OF A HOME? NO, BECAUSE THEN IT'S THEN IT'S AN ACTUAL TAX VERSUS A FEE. OKAY. AND I SHOULD NOTE THAT THE SOME SOME OF THE INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME FROM, FROM CARSON WERE ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE BASIS. BUT THE, THE CONSENSUS IN THE COMMITTEE FROM ALL THE VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS WAS THAT THE TYPE OF HOUSING WAS A PREFERABLE APPROACH. AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, BOTH ARE VALID AND BUT WE JUST THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS WAS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. OKAY. ALSO, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THE FEES VARY BY THE HOUSE TYPE IN THIS BILL. IT MENTIONS 10,000 FOR SINGLES AND 10,000 FOR TOWN. CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHY THEY WOULD BE THE SAME? WELL, AGAIN, THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE BECAUSE OF THE CAP. I MEAN, IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CAP, THEN THEY WOULD BE, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE AT DIFFERENT. YEAH. I'M SORRY. YEAH. AT THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE YOU KNOW RATES. AND IT WAS DIFFICULT TO YOU KNOW, I MEAN THEORETICALLY YOU COULD HAVE MADE THAT BECAUSE THE STUDENT GENERATION IS HIGHER FOR THE TOWNHOME THAN FOR THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME. BUT THEN WE WERE ALSO JUST KIND OF CONCERNED FROM, YOU KNOW, JUST FROM AN EQUITY PERSPECTIVE. AND SOME OF THAT, THAT THAT WOULD HAVE, WOULD HAVE, WOULD HAVE BEEN PERCEIVED AS, AS, AS NOT FAIR. 
          AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, WE DECIDED TO MAKE THEM BOTH AT THE 10,000 MARK. AND THE SAME WAS TRUE WITH THE MOBILE HOME AND THE AND THE MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. WE TRIED TO YOU THE MULTI THE MOBILE HOME COULD HAVE BEEN COULD HAVE BEEN HIGHER, BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, WORKFORCE HOUSING OR MORE. MORE ECONOMICAL HOUSING REALLY BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN. AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT WE SAID, WELL LET'S LET'S MAKE IT AT THE, AT THE, AT THE LOWER, THE LOWER LEVEL, OKAY. I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW. THANK YOU. MR. PITTMAN. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. CARSON. ROBBIE RICH, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. IT'S JUST BEEN A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO ABSORB MYSELF IN, AND I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION. I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION ON THE IMPACT OF DEVELOPMENT AS IT RELATES TO SCHOOLS AND EXAMINING THE LEVEL OF SERVICE STANDARD THAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE COUNTY. AND I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THESE FEES WOULD WOULD GO TO PAY DOWN THE DEBT SERVICES FOR THE SCHOOLS SO WE COULD FREE UP POTENTIALLY TAX DOLLARS REVENUE FOR OTHER PROJECTS. AND MAYBE THAT GOES INTO THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE. BUT I THINK THERE IS I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF INCREASING FEES IN OUR COMMUNITY ON DEVELOPMENT. AND, ROBBIE, YOU KIND OF INDICATED PREVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY, THIS BILL GOT PASSED IN 2005. ON WITH BILL ZERO 521, AND IT HAD ESCALATORS TO WHERE IT WAS INCREASED TO $8,269. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE FROM THE HOUSING CRISIS AND THE GREAT RECESSION IN 2008, IT HAD A NEGATIVE IMPACT, AND THEY REVERSED SOME OF THOSE ESCALATORS TO WHERE THE FEES ARE NOW. SO IT DOES HAVE AN IMPACT. 
          [00:45:04]
AND I THINK IT'S WORTH HAVING A CONVERSATION. NOT THAT I'M NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO ADDRESSING IT, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT BECAUSE THERE'S THIS NOTION OUT THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPERS HAVE TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. AND WE KNOW THAT'S JUST NOT HOW IT WORKS. YOU KNOW, A BARREL OF OIL GOES UP $10 AND THE PRICE AT THE PUMP GOES UP. 
          SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON INFLATION. IT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON OUR LOCAL ECONOMY. AND WE HAVE TO MEASURE THAT RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTY. 
          IT'S INTERESTING, THOUGH, ON THE INFLATION SIDE OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, MY CALCULATIONS OVER TEN YEARS THE POPULATION HAS GROWN ROUGHLY AROUND $16,000, 16,000 PEOPLE, EXCUSE ME, WITH ABOUT 568 CHILDREN ADDED TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY A CAPACITY ISSUE. I THINK THE SCHOOL COST IS AN INFLATION ISSUE, AND THIS THIS COULD, YOU KNOW, INCREASE THE INFLATION INFLUENCE THE INFLATION BECAUSE REALITY OF IT IS THIS BILL, IF PASSED AS IS, WOULD INCREASE THE COST OF A HOME, $4,000 INCREASE THE COST OF TOWNHOMES, $5,800 AND AS WELL AS APARTMENTS INCREASE THE COST OF APARTMENTS. SO THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR COMMUNITY. AND IF ANYBODY WAS AT THE RECENT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MEETING AT THE ABERDEEN HIGH SCHOOL, ONE OF THE MAIN COMPONENTS THAT THEY MENTIONED WAS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE AN AGING POPULATION IN HARFORD COUNTY, AND WE NEED TO FIND WAYS TO ATTRACT THE YOUNGER GENERATION TO COME AND LIVE AND WORK AND RAISE A FAMILY IN HARFORD COUNTY. BUT SOME OF THE PROBLEM TO THAT IS THE COST OF LIVING AND THIS IS ONLY GOING TO GO INTO THE ISSUES THERE WITH THE COST OF LIVING. SO CARSON, I MY FIRST QUESTION IS TO YOU AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE DATA THAT THAT YOU PRESENTED IN YOUR STUDY. BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR STUDY OR ANY PARTICULAR STUDY THAT YOU HAD WITH ANY OTHER AGENCY OR ANY OTHER COUNTY, HAS THERE EVER BEEN AN EVALUATION ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF INCREASING IMPACT FEES? YES, SIR. QUITE A BIT. NOT SURE WHERE YOU WANT ME TO GO WITH THIS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT I WOULD HAZARD A GUESS. I'D BET DOLLARS TO DONUTS DURING THE GREAT RECESSION WHEN YOU REDUCE THE FEES, YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY COMMENSURATE IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF PERMITS IN TERMS OF INCREASES, BECAUSE WE HAD A LARGER STRUCTURAL ECONOMIC ISSUE AT PLAY. I CAN TELL YOU THAT IF YOU RAISE THE IMPACT FEE BY $4,000 IN THIS INSTANCE, DEPENDING ON THE INTEREST RATE ENVIRONMENT, WE FIND OURSELVES IN, IT'S A DE MINIMIS IMPACT ON A 30 YEAR MORTGAGE. IF YOU ASSUME THAT IT'S ROLLED INTO THE PRICE OF A HOME, NOT TO DISCOUNT THE FACT THAT IT IS A $4,000 INCREASE, ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS, IS I'VE BEEN DOING THIS 34 YEARS. I'D SAY THAT 60% OF THE IMPACT FEE JOBS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW ARE MULTIPLE REPEAT CLIENTS THAT KEEP GOING TO THE WELL, AND THE IMPACT FEES TEND TO INCREASE. THEY DON'T DECREASE. AND IF THEY HAD AN ADVERSE IMPACTS ON THEIR ECONOMIC SITUATION, I'M NOT SO SURE THEY'D KEEP GOING TO THE WELL, NO, THAT'S A FAIR POINT BECAUSE THINGS COST MORE INFLATION COST. BUT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST WE DID YOU KNOW, THIS COUNTY GO BACKWARDS. MY OTHER QUESTION IS YOU KNOW YOU KNOW I KNOW I UNDERSTAND HAVE A BRIEF UNDERSTANDING OF KIND OF WHAT THESE FEES ARE GOING TO BE USED FOR. AND DEBT SERVICES IS, YOU KNOW, PREDOMINANTLY WHAT IT'S BEING USED FOR. BUT AS IT RELATES TO THE APFO AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEVERAL SCHOOLS IN OUR COUNTY THAT ARE AT CAPACITY WITH OVER 110%. SO I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT SHOULD BE AN INDEFINITE MORATORIUM ON THOSE DISTRICTS. SO THESE IMPACT FEES THAT WE ARE COLLECTING ARE ARE WE USING THEM OR SHOULD WE BE USING THEM TO REDUCE THE CAPACITY ISSUES ON THOSE PARTICULAR SCHOOLS. SO WE DO NOT HAVE A MORATORIUM IN THOSE DISTRICTS? I'M AFRAID I'M NOT AN APFO EXPERT, SO I REALLY DON'T FEEL QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THAT POLICY LEVEL. AND DO YOU HAVE TYSON? YEAH. AND WE YOU KNOW, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS AND OBVIOUSLY YOU ALL KNOW THIS, BUT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF OUR WORK WITH CARSON AND HIS FIRM WAS THE NEED TO ALSO LOOK AT THE, THE ADEQUATE PUBLIC FACILITIES. AND SO TO THAT END, WE, THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT, ALONG WITH THE COUNCIL'S LEAD, BROUGHT IN AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT, WHITE AND SMITH, TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR AT 
          [00:50:05]
OUR ADEQUATE PUBLIC FACILITIES AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE THAT THEY ARE APPROPRIATE. BUT I THINK IF YOU GO BACK THOUGH TO THE ORIGINAL IDEA, THOUGH, WHICH IS THAT THESE THESE IMPACT FEES CAN ONLY BE USED FOR CAPACITY PROJECTS, THEY CAN'T BE USED FOR NEW ROOFS OR MODERNIZATIONS, THEY CAN'T BE USED FOR OPERATING, SO THEY HAVE TO BE USED FOR CAPACITY RELATED PROJECTS. AND THE SCHOOL SYSTEM OBVIOUSLY IS GOING TO BE THE ONE, THOUGH, THAT DETERMINES, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE PRIORITY OF THEIR CAPACITY, OF THEIR CAPACITY NEEDS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO GO AROUND WHEN IT'S YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S SIX, SEVEN, $800 A SQUARE FOOT, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT YOU CAN DO WITH THREE WITH WITH WITH $3 MILLION, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, OF COURSE, ULTIMATELY CONTROLS REBALANCING, REDISTRICTING. YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE TERM IS THAT, THAT, THAT YOU WISH TO USE AS ONE OF THE BENEFITS WITH THE IMPACT FEE IS THAT WE CAN THEN DEPLOY IT WHEREVER, BECAUSE THE SCHOOL SYSTEM CAN ALWAYS SHIFT SHIFT ENROLLMENT BOUNDARIES ACCORDINGLY. BUT IT IS A CHALLENGE. A LOT OF TIMES, PARTICULARLY AT THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, WHERE SOMETIMES YOU CAN HAVE A BLIP IN AN AREA, AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR IT GOES AWAY JUST BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, FAMILY CHOICES AND THE LIKE. SO YOU CAN'T JUST NECESSARILY ALWAYS BE ADDING EXTRA CAPACITY. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CAPACITY STUFF, THAT'S, THAT'S THAT'S COMING UP THE HORIZON, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY IN ABERDEEN, YOU KNOW, THAT IS WE KNOW WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM. YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT IT'S THOUSANDS OF NEW HOMES AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO NEED A NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. AND SO THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF MASSAGING AROUND THAT, THAT I DON'T EVEN THINK KNOW IF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM CAN DO WITHOUT PUTTING, YOU KNOW, ELEMENTARY CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, ON THE, ON THE BUS AND MOVING THEM TO SOME OF THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE UNDER CAPACITY IN THE NORTHERN HARTFORD AREAS OR IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTY. 
          SO JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON YOUR QUESTION, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT YOU COVERED A LOT THERE. AND WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD WAS THAT THE IMPACT FEES THAT YOU'RE LEAVING UP TO THE SCHOOLS TO DECIDE WHERE THOSE FUNDS GO TO ALLEVIATE CAPACITY, AND THEN SO MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, AND I GET THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY THEY KNOW THEIR NEEDS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME IN A CERTAIN DISTRICT LIKE RED PUMP, I THINK THERE'S OVER 110%, YOU KNOW, WE ARE STOPPING ECONOMIC GROWTH IN THOSE DISTRICTS BASED OFF THE CAPACITY ISSUES IN THE APFO. SO WOULDN'T IT BE A POINT OF EMPHASIS ON THE SCHOOL SYSTEM TO SAY, I KNOW YOU HAVE NEEDS, BUT WE SHOULD ADDRESS THESE BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING AN ECONOMIC IMPACT ON THESE AREAS. AND I KNOW THERE'S OTHER CONSIDERATIONS LIKE CAN WE EXPAND THOSE SCHOOLS? IS THE PROPERTY CONDUCIVE TO DO IT? BUT THOSE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT I WOULD HOPE THAT WE'RE HAVING WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION TO ALLEVIATE THIS. YOU KNOW, NEVER ENDING MORATORIUM IN CERTAIN AREAS TO EXPAND CAPACITY IN THE SCHOOLS. YEAH. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE, ARE NECESSARILY LOOKING TO HAVE OVERCROWDED SCHOOLS IN AREAS IN ORDER TO, TO DO THAT. I THINK THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO BALANCE PRIORITIES. NOW WHEN I SAY THAT THAT WHEN SO WHEN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM DETERMINES THEIR CAPITAL BUDGETS, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LOOK AT IT AND WOULD SAY, OKAY, THIS, THIS PROJECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BUILD IS CAPACITY RELATED. AND THEN WE WOULD PRORATE IT BECAUSE MAYBE THEY MAYBE THEY ONLY ADDED 10% NEW SEATS. SO WE WOULD ONLY WE WOULD TAKE 10% OF THAT COST. 
          AND THEN WHEN WE SELL THE BONDS FOR THAT PROJECT THAT THEY ARE THAT THEY ARE BUILDING, WE WOULD SAY, OKAY, 10% OF THOSE BONDS, WE'RE MOVING OVER AND WE'RE GOING TO USE THE IMPACT FEES TO PAY FOR THOSE THAT DEBT SERVICE. THE OTHER 90%. WE'RE GOING TO USE THAT OF OTHER SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION FUNDS. BUT I THINK WE DO WORK WITH WITH THE SCHOOLS AS FAR AS TRYING TO AS FAR AS TRYING TO BALANCE ALL OF THIS. BUT IT IS A CHALLENGE AGAIN, BECAUSE THE COSTS ARE SO HIGH NOW FOR SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION. SO ALL RIGHT, LET ME MOVE ON TO ANOTHER POINT. YOU KNOW, WE ARE WE DO HAVE A MATURING COUNTY, RIGHT? OUR DEVELOPMENT ENVELOPE IS ONLY SO BIG, YOU KNOW, SO AND YOU KNOW THAT THAT MAY BE THE REASON WHY THE PERMITS ARE DOWN. YOU KNOW, MY DATA SAYS IT'S DOWN 19.6%. SO AND WE CAN ARGUE WHETHER THAT'S COUNTY POLICIES THAT'S YOU KNOW, MATURING DEVELOPMENT OR, OR WHAT. BUT YOU KNOW THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER GOING FORWARD THAT NO MATTER WHAT THESE IMPACT FEES COLLECTED COULD BE REDUCED BASED OFF OF, YOU KNOW, THE NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY OR THE AVAILABILITY FOR THESE PERMITS. AND THEN SO THAT LEADS ME TO AN APFO MEETING THAT WE ARE AT, I GUESS JUST LAST WEEK, MAYBE WHERE IT WAS DISCUSSED, WHERE IT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A DECREASE IN HOUSING PERMITS, AND THEN SO YOU WOULD HAVE CONSIDERATION OF HOUSES EXPANDING ON THEIR, YOU KNOW, EXISTING FOOTPRINT. AND SO IS THERE. HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANY THOUGHT TO THAT? IS THERE DISCUSSION ON THAT? MR. TRUITT? 
          [00:55:03]
I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF IN YOUR REALM OF KIND OF WHAT THE FUTURE IS OF THESE PERMITS AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. YEAH. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN BOWMAN. YES. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF FACTORS AT PLAY HERE, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY IN THIS COMMITTEE, BUT ALSO IN THE APFO COMMITTEE. YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN I'VE PROVIDED SOME TESTIMONY AND PROVIDED SOME FEEDBACK THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR REQUIREMENTS FOR BUILDING CODES, ESPECIALLY IN THE ENERGY CODE FOR ESPECIALLY IN NEW CONSTRUCTION, ARE BECOMING VERY, VERY STRINGENT AND THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE AS WE MOVE FORWARD. YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW, IF YOU GO BACK TO FY 23, ADDITIONS AND ALTERATIONS BASICALLY ACCOUNTED FOR ABOUT 35 TO 40% OF THE RESIDENTIAL PERMITS THAT WE ISSUED. ONLY 9% WERE FOR NEW RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES IN FY 24. AND CURRENTLY IN FY 25. THAT NEW PERMIT TOTAL, THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION TOTAL NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE BIT INFLATED BECAUSE WE HAD THE BUILDING CODE COME INTO PLAY IN MAY, AND WE SAW A HUGE SPIKE IN DWELLING UNIT PERMITS PRIOR TO THE ADOPTION OF THE BUILDING CODE THAT HAS CONTINUED ON FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. WE'RE NOW IN THE FIFTH, FIFTH MONTH OF THE QUARTER. WE JUST GOT THE NUMBER OF THE FISCAL YEAR, AND WE JUST GOT THOSE NUMBERS BACK. 
          WE FINALLY STARTING TO SEE THAT DECREASE IN SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS, AND THEY'RE STARTING TO DEFINITELY SHOW A DECREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF PERMITS THAT WE ARE GETTING FROM A COUNTY BASE. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, AS YOU MOVE FORWARD, THERE IS AN ARGUMENT POTENTIALLY TO BE MADE THAT EXISTING STRUCTURES, BY PUTTING ADDITIONS AND ALTERATIONS DO BECOME MORE VALUABLE BECAUSE OF ALL THE DIFFERENT ECONOMICS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS AND THE COST OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, WHICH POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON SCHOOLS AND SCHOOL POPULATIO. RIGHT. AND IF WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IMPACT AND THERE'S A WHOLE NOTHER ELEMENT THAT WE'RE NOT EVEN CONSIDERING, IT'S WORTH THE CONVERSATION. AND THAT KIND OF LEADS ME TO THE ALTERNATIVE MEASURES. AND, COUNCILWOMAN HAS MENTIONED THIS AS WELL, ABOUT POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE ALGORITHM TO A, YOU KNOW, PER SQUARE FOOT. I MEAN, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF THE DATA, CARSON, THAT YOU PUT INTO THIS STUDY, IT'S ALL PER SQUARE FOOT PER STUDENT, RIGHT? THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION IS PER SQUARE PER STUDENT. SO IF WE'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE THE TRUE IMPACT OF CHILDREN COMING OUT FROM HOMES IN OUR COUNTY, RIGHT. AND WE WANT TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUNGER GENERATIONS ARE GOING TO MOVE IN AND DON'T HAVE THE FINANCE OR TO AFFORD A BIGGER HOUSE. THEY'RE GOING TO THEY'RE GOING TO GO INTO A SMALLER HOUSE AND, AND MAYBE THAT ALGORITHM WITH THAT PER SQUARE FOOT. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER LOOKS LIKE. IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE STATE, THERE'S MULTIPLE COUNTIES THAT HAVE PER SQUARE FOOT, RIGHT. AND SOME HAVE THEM UP $10 AND SOME HAVE THEM DOWN TO $1. RIGHT. SO WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT AND KIND OF SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. BUT PERHAPS THAT CAPTURES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT THE TRUE IMPACT IS, RATHER THAN JUST APPLYING, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER TO A UNIT. BEING IN A HOUSE, TOWNHOME APARTMENT. SO I THINK THAT THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE A DISCUSSION POINT. AND MY FINAL POINT, AND THEN I'LL CLOSE. MR. PRESIDENT. ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE IS PHASING THIS IN THIS IS THIS IS A BIG INCREASE RIGHT. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LOOKING AT I KNOW THAT IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE DATA 300% INCREASE SINCE THE LEGISLATION WAS INTRODUCED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION COST TO BUILD A SCHOOL. AND THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. RIGHT. BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR 140%, ROUGHLY OF AN INCREASE ON IMPACT FEE ON THE COMMUNITY, ON THE COMMUNITY. SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, I CAUTION MY COLLEAGUES, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ADJUST. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. I APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION, BUT I CAUTION MY COLLEAGUES IN THE COMMUNITIES TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT AND FIND, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLY ALTERNATIVES TO WHERE WE CAN EASE THIS IN AND WE DON'T HAVE THE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ALL IN, IN ONE LEGISLATION PIECE. SO WITH THAT, MR. PRESIDENT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU, MR. PITTMAN. 
          MR. RILEY. YES, JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS. FIRST OFF, I DON'T SEE A LIST HERE. OF ALL THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS. THERE'S A WAY WE CAN GET THAT. ROB. YEAH, I CAN PUT THAT TOGETHER. OKAY. ESPECIALLY THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY. I'D APPRECIATE THAT. AND THEN THE LIST OF ALL THE YOU GOT ALL THESE COUNTIES OUT HERE, CAN YOU GIVE US A LIST OF HOW THEY ALL DO IT? I KNOW YOU GAVE US A SMALL PORTION, BUT CAN YOU DO THEM ALL SO THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE OTHER WAYS THAT COUNTIES DO IT BESIDES WHAT YOU WANTED TO SHOW US? POINT OF CLARIFICATION, COUNCILMAN RILEY. 
          WE HAVE DONE SEVERAL OF THESE MONTGOMERY COUNTY. I CAN'T WE CAN'T SEEM TO PUT OUR HANDS ON A 
          [01:00:05]
STUDY THAT SO I'M NOT SURE I CAN DESCRIBE HOW YOU CAN EXPAND ANY MORE THAN THE LIST. RIGHT. AND THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW OF IN MARYLAND IN TERMS OF SCHOOL IMPACT FEES. NOW, I CAN SHOW YOU HOW OTHER PEOPLE DO IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I DON'T WANT TO KNOW THAT. BUT ANYWAY, WE'VE DONE ANNE ARUNDEL, WE'VE DONE FREDERICK, WE'VE DONE TALBOT, WE'VE DONE CARROLL. AND I THINK IT'S SO WITHIN THE STATE OF MARYLAND, YOU HAVE A LOT OF COUNTIES THAT AREN'T EXPERIENCING GROWTH. AND SO IN A COUNTY THAT'S NOT EXPERIENCING GROWTH, YOU KNOW, AN ALLEGHENY COUNTY, A SOMERSET COUNTY WOULDN'T HAVE THE SAME THE SAME PRESSURES. I DO KNOW THAT PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY KIND OF DID THEIRS INTERNALLY. SOME PEOPLE WILL TRY TO DO THOSE INTERNALLY. 
          ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK WE BOTH IN 2004 AND IN 2024, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS WAS, WAS WAS NOT JUST SUBJECT TO SOME OF OUR OWN, OF OUR OWN INTERNAL BIASES OR TOO SIMPLISTIC. AND THAT'S, OF COURSE, WHY WE BROUGHT IN OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE. THAT'S IT. 
          THANKS. MR. PRESIDENT. THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. MR. GIORDANO. WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S LEFT OVER HERE, SO THANK YOU. GENTLEMEN, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS, ONE OF THE BIG THINGS I HAVE IS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT PROJECTED STUDENTS. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU FIGURED INTO YOUR PROJECTED STUDENTS? THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN HERE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, MAYBE NOT INTO THIS AREA, BUT IN. AND HOW THAT AFFECTS OUR STUDENT POPULATION AND WHAT THAT DOES TO NOTHING. CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. COUNCILMAN. SO YEAH. SO WE JUST HAVE THE DATA AVAILABLE TO US WHETHER THE COUNTY PLANNING DEPARTMENT GIVES IT TO US OR WE DO STUDENT SURVEYS, OR WE USE CENSUS DATA, IT'S NOT TELLING US, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM, WHAT THEIR ECONOMIC SITUATION IS. ET CETERA. IT'S JUST A RAW NUMBER OF STUDENTS OR, YOU KNOW, SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN, WHICH WE THEN HAVE TO THEN FACTOR IN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN PERCENTAGES THAT ARE GOING TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR MAYBE BEING HOMESCHOOLED, ETC, SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT THAT DATA AT OUR FINGERTIPS RELATED TO THAT, TO A POINT, TO A POINT THAT THAT COUNCILMAN PITTMAN MADE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT AN OLDER YOU GOT A POPULATION THAT'S AGING IN PLACE. RIGHT? WELL, I'VE SEEN THAT TURN ON A DIME. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD BE UPDATING YOUR IMPACT FEES EVERY FIVE YEARS INSTEAD OF EVERY 20 YEARS TO FACTOR IN THESE TRENDS THAT HAPPEN, BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN HUGE DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFTS IN THE 20 YEARS THAT SINCE YOU LAST DID YOUR FEE STUDY. AND SO AND AS I SAID, WE HAD SEVERAL CLIENTS IN FLORIDA AROUND 2012 TO 2014 THAT WERE SEEING FLAT TO DECLINING ENROLLMENT GROWTH THAT ARE NOW GROWING LIKE GANGBUSTERS. AND IT'S A TEMPORARY SITUATION. 
          RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY THESE IMPACT FEES AREN'T A STATIC LAND USE REGULATION THAT YOU KEEP IN PLACE FOR 20 YEARS. YOU'VE GOT TO KEEP ON TOP OF IT TO ONE, KEEP UP WITH THE COST OF INFLATION, BECAUSE I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOUR $6,000 FEE IN REAL DOLLARS IS MORE THAN $10,000 COMPARED TO WHAT IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO, RIGHT? YEAH. SO YEAH, I WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT 20 YEARS AND YOU'RE GOING TO GO UP FROM 6000 TO 10,000, THAT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE INCREASE EACH YEAR THAT WE DIDN'T TAKE, EVEN THOUGH AT ONE POINT WE WERE HIGHER. AND THEY DID REDUCE IT DUE TO THE RECESSION IN 2009, WHICH AS YOU MENTIONED, HAD OTHER IMPLICATIONS ON THAT. DO WE KNOW AND I KNOW, MR. TRUITT, YOU TALKED ABOUT PERMITS. DO YOU HAVE A NUMBER, THOUGH, OF PERMITS FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, FOR TOWNHOMES THAT MAYBE LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE? AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT THERE, THAT'S FINE. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO GET IT. I WASN'T BENEFIT TO BE ON THE MEETINGS OR ANY OF THESE MEETINGS THAT WERE HAD. SO SOME OF THIS INFORMATION I DON'T GET AND I JUST WANT TO RESEARCH BACK ON THAT TOO. WE CAN I SENT OVER SOME DATA THIS AFTERNOON. BUT JUST TO YOUR POINT, FY 24 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES FOR THE COUNTY WAS ABOUT 152 TOWNHOMES, WAS ABOUT 105 THAT WE HAVE NUMBERS ON NOW THAT DOES NOT REFLECT THE NUMBERS FROM THE MUNICIPALITIES. 
          THE WAY WE CAN EXTRACT, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN EXTRACT THE NUMBER FROM THE MUNICIPALITY RIGHT NOW THROUGH OUR SYSTEM IS BY IDENTIFYING THE IMPACT FEE THAT WAS PAID. SO WE REALLY CAN'T SHOW OF THAT. 152 AND 105. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE MUNICIPALITIES. NO, IT DOES NOT. 
          BUT IF I LIKE TAKE, TAKE THE AMOUNT OF, OF IMPACT FEES THAT WE GOT DOLLAR WISE AND THEN JUST DIVIDE IT BY 6000, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR, YOU KNOW I CAME UP WITH LIKE 183 FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOME TOWNHOMES, 305 BECAUSE I THINK WE PROBABLY HAD A LOT OF THE ORIGINALLY HOMES THERE. SO THOSE TYPES OF THOSE I, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF LOOK BACK. 183 150 SOMETHING. WHAT ABOUT APARTMENTS? CAN YOU TELL ME THAT? BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF APARTMENTS BUILT. 
          SO APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW. CORRECT. IT'S ONE FEE. LIKE IF YOU IF YOU BUILD IT WITH WITH 
          [01:05:03]
TEN APARTMENTS, IT'S IT JUST COMES IN AS I THINK I THINK IT MIGHT COME IN AS ONE, ONE. BUT I KNOW WHEN WE DIVIDE BY THE NUMBER ONE FEE FOR THE ENTIRE APARTMENT, IF IT HAS 350 OR 500 UNITS, I MEAN, HOUSING THE SYSTEM. BUT THEN LIKE IF I DIVIDE IT BY THE 1200, THE CONDO APARTMENT FEE, I'M SORRY, NOT GETTING PICKED UP HERE LIKE I CAME. I CAME UP WITH 264 INDIVIDUAL UNITS FOR LAST YEAR FOR CONDO, CONDO APARTMENTS. BUT THEN YOU GO BACK TO 2022. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS 663, BUT IT ALSO DOESN'T INCLUDE THE MUNICIPALITIES. NO, NO, NO, THIS ONE WOULD BECAUSE MUNICIPALITIES NOW AND THIS IS JUST AN AVERAGE. AND THERE CAN ALWAYS BE SOME SOME WEIRD, SOME WEIRD VARIATIONS. BUT JUST TAKING THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS COLLECTED AND DIVIDE IT BY THE NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, DIVIDING BY WHAT THE FEE IS. BUT YES, MUNICIPALITIES DO PAY THIS FEE. JUST AS THAT IS ONE THING. JUST TO MAKE VERY, VERY CLEAR. SO HOW DO WE GET THE NUMBER FOR APARTMENTS? THE NUMBER OF APARTMENTS THAT WERE BUILT, WHETHER IT'S 2023 OR 2024, HOW MANY UNITS, HOW DO WE GET THAT NUMBER IN TOTAL? NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, ONE FEE FOR, FOR I MEAN, AGAIN, BY DOING IT THE DIVISION WAY IS, IS HOW I'M COMING UP WITH 264 IN IN FISCAL YEAR 2024. BUT THAT DOESN'T STILL DOESN'T TELL ME THE NUMBER OF UNITS PER APARTMENT. NO NO NO THAT SHOULD BE UNITS BECAUSE WHEN YOU IT'S $1,200 PER UNIT. SO IF YOU BUILD A TEN UNIT APARTMENT, IT'S $1,200 TIMES TEN, CORRECT? YES, YES. SO YOU'RE TELLING ME OUT OF ALL OF 2023 OR 2024, ONLY 264 APARTMENT UNITS WERE BUILT IN THE ENTIRE COUNTY. YEAH. YOU KNOW, IN OTHER YEARS WE HAVE WE HAVE HIGHER NUMBERS, CERTAINLY. YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAINLY SOME WHAT ARE THEY WHAT'S THE OTHER YEARS? WOULD THEY BE HIGHER? THAT JUST ABSOLUTELY MAKES 663, YOU KNOW, OR SOME OF THE SOME OF THE HIGHER, HIGHER YEARS. COUNCILMAN GIORDANO, WE HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE APARTMENT PROJECTS THAT WERE PUT ON HOLD WERE ACTUALLY PERMITTED IN PRIOR YEARS, AS MR. SANDERS HAS INDICATED. SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT THE FY 24 NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE BIT LOW, BECAUSE THOSE PERMIT NUMBERS WOULD OR WHEN WE COLLECTED THE IMPACT FEE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN PRIOR FISCAL YEARS. SO AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT I NEED THE. YEAH. SO YOU NEED TO GO JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. YOU NEED TO GO BACK 2 OR 3 YEARS I THINK YOU KNOW THAT. YEAH. THIS IS JUST COMPLEX UP IN HICKORY WAS, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE HUNDRED UNITS AND THERE'S BEEN SOME OTHER UNITS THAT ARE 300 OR WHATEVER. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING 200 JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. THE JACQUELINE APARTMENTS I BELIEVE, WERE ACTUALLY PERMITTED. PROBABLY THEIR APPLICATIONS WERE PROBABLY IN 2021 POTENTIALLY IN THAT, IN THAT AREA. AND I'M JUST GUESSING BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WERE ON HOLD FOR A LONG TIME. SO YEAH, 21 WE HAD FOUR SEVEN AGAIN PAID. AND THERE AND TYPICALLY YOU'RE BEING PAID AT THE TIME THEY APPLY FOR THEIR BUILDING PERMIT. NOT NECESSARILY WHEN IT OPENS OR BEFORE. SO JUST LIKE WE DID NOT GET THE INFORMATION. YEAH THAT'S FINE. WE'LL DO THAT. GET SOME MORE INFORMATION LATER. THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I WAS ON THE COUNCIL IN 2004 WHEN WE PUT THE IMPACT FEES IN THE FIRST GO ROUND, AND WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT. AND I BELIEVE WE. THIS DISCUSSION LIKE THIS, IF WE HAD THE NUMBERS TODAY THAT WE HAD THEN THIS DISCUSSION WOULD GO TO 2:00 IN THE MORNING. LET ME GIVE YOU SOME NUMBERS. BACK THEN WHEN WE WERE DEALING WITH THE IMPACT FEE, OKAY. THE ADEQUATE PUBLIC FACILITIES, WHICH IS NOW 110, WE TOOK IT TO 1.5 AND IT SUNSETTED TO 110. THAT'S HOW IT GOT TO 110 AT THE TIME 2004, IT WAS 120% OKAY. THAT WAS THE CAPACITY. NOT ONLY WAS IT 120%, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE WERE 40,000 STUDENTS IN THE SYSTEM, AND NOW THERE'S 38,000. TALK ABOUT HAVING TWO SCHOOLS THAT ARE CAPACITY AT ONLY 110. WE HAD ABOUT 15 SCHOOLS THAT WERE 120 OR HIGHER. WE HAD SCHOOLS THAT AT THAT TIME THAT WENT TO 125, 130% OVER CAPACITY. AND THAT'S WHY WE DEVELOPED THE IMPACT FEE. 
          AND I THINK, AGAIN, I THINK WE EVEN HAD A SUNSET CLAUSE ON ON THE IMPACT FEE, BUT EVENTUALLY THE SUNSET CLAUSE CAME OFF. WE TOOK IT OFF. SO. AND WITH THE IMPACT FEE HELPED US AND OTHER THINGS BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO BUILD A LOT OF SCHOOLS AND WE BUILT A BUNCH OF THEM, YOU KNOW, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN SCHOOLS. I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY WE BUILT AFTER THAT TO, TO WHICH WHICH 
          [01:10:01]
HELPED TO LOWER THE APFO BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE MORE SCHOOLS AND WE BUILT THEM BIGGER. THE PATTERSON MILL KNEW THAT WAS A BRAND NEW SCHOOL, MIDDLE HIGH SCHOOL, BLAIR HIGH SCHOOL, BRAND NEW ONE. TORE THAT DOWN, TORE DOWN EDGEWOOD HIGH SCHOOL, BUILT A NEW ONE. LARGE ABERDEEN HIGH SCHOOL. SO IT. AND THEN I LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW 183 OR 400. WE WERE BUILDING 2000 HOMES A YEAR AT THAT TIME. AND THAT'S WHAT MADE THIS IMPACT FEE AND EVERYTHING TO BE SO IMPORTANT AT THE TIME. SO I SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR THE SCHOOLS AND IT'S GOOD FOR A FEE TO TRY TO MAKE SURE WE NEVER GET TO WHAT WE HAD IN 2004 AND 2005 WITH SUCH A SCHOOL, SUCH OVERCROWDING AND SUCH BIG NUMBERS. WITH THIS, WITH THE APFO AT 120%, AND MAKE SURE WE NEVER GET TO THAT AGAIN. WE'VE HAD I'VE HAD ABOUT ABOUT TEN EMAILS ON THE SUBJECT WHICH ARE HERE. EVERY ONE OF THEM SUPPORT IT. I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE EMAIL THAT'S OPPOSED TO IT, INCLUDING THE FRIENDS OF HARFORD THEY SUPPORT. IT ALSO. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO VOTING FOR THE SUBJECT. THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE. MR. BENNETT, HELLO AGAIN. GOOD EVENING. IF YOU COULD JUST HELP CLARIFY, BECAUSE OF SOME COMMENTS I HEARD FROM COUNCILMAN PENMAN, I WAS 13, IN 2008. I WAS THE HOUSING CRISIS CAUSED BY THE $8,000 IMPACT FEE THAT EXISTED IN HARFORD COUNTY AT THE TIME? I AGAIN, I THINK IT WAS LARGELY EXTERNAL FORCES, PROBABLY THE SUBPRIME MORTGAGE AND THE HOUSING AND THE HOUSING BOOM, WHICH IS ALL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE THERE IS THAT. AND AT THE SAME TIME, I DO WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A COST THAT SOMEONE, SOMEONE IS GOING TO BEAR THAT COST. AND AGAIN, WHETHER IT IS THE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IF THE BUILDER IS ABLE TO PASS IT ON TO THE INDIVIDUAL, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE BUSINESSES CANNOT ALWAYS PASS ON ADDITIONAL COSTS TO BUILDERS. ASK ANYBODY THAT HAS A SMALL BUSINESS AND HAS THEIR ELECTRICITY GO UP OR WHAT HAVE YOU. YOU CAN'T ALWAYS JUST PASS IT ON. HOWEVER IT IS GOING TO BE PAID BY SOMEBODY AND IT IS GOING TO BE USED FOR THESE PARTICULAR ITEMS, AND THAT IS SCHOOL CAPACITY PROJECTS. IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO HOW WE WORK IT WITH, WITH, WITH WATER AND SEWER. WHEN YOU ENTER, WHEN YOU BUILD INTO AND YOU HOOK UP TO THE WATER AND SEWER, YOU'RE KIND OF BUYING INTO THAT SYSTEM. THAT SYSTEM WAS, WAS MADE TO, TO OPERATE AND YOU'RE KIND OF BUYING INTO IT. AND IN ORDER FOR THE SYSTEM TO WORK, IT NEEDS TO ADD CAPACITY. IT NEEDS. AND THAT SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY FOR THAT CAPACITY. I YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I HAD NOT HEARD THAT BEFORE. SO I'M GLAD YOU MADE SURE IT WAS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE HOUSING CRISIS WAS NOT CAUSED BY THE HARFORD COUNTY IMPACT FEE. AND I DID DO THE MATH BECAUSE IT WAS BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE COST OVER A 30 YEAR MORTGAGE, A $4,000 INCREASE IS $11 A MONTH ON YOUR MORTGAGE TO COVER THE COST OF THE IMPACT FEE. ASSUMING THAT COST IS PASSED ALONG TO THE BUYER. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY AS A GENERAL COMMENT, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE ANY TIME WE TALK ABOUT A FEE ADJUSTMENT, SOME MEMBERS OF OUR COUNCIL GET VERY WORKED UP. YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHEN WE BROUGHT UP 25 CENT INCREASE FOR 911 SERVICE FEES TO HELP COVER THE COST OF OUR 911 DISPATCHERS AND SOME PEOPLE ACTED LIKE THAT WAS GOING TO RUIN EVERYONE'S BUDGET TO HAVE TO PAY AN EXTRA $0.25 A MONTH TO COVER THE COST OF THOSE SERVICES. AND HERE, $11 A MONTH OVER THE COURSE OF A 30 YEAR MORTGAGE. AND AGAIN, WE'RE ACTING LIKE IT'S GOING TO CAUSE THE GREAT ECONOMIC CRASH. AND I JUST THINK AS A GENERAL RULE, WE CAN'T CLAIM TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF THESE SERVICES AND THESE INDUSTRIES THAT OUR COMMUNITY RELIES ON IF WE'RE UNWILLING TO FUND THEM, IF WE'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE FUNDING SOURCES FOR THEM. AND I THINK ALL OF US ON THE COUNCIL RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANT NEED THAT THIS FUNDING SOURCE COVERS, AND IT SHOULD BE SIMPLE TO SUPPORT IT AS IS TO FUND IT AT THE MAXIMUM LEVEL THAT WE CURRENTLY ARE ABLE TO. THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT. MR. PENMAN THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY WHEN 2009, WHEN THIS BILL WAS REVERSED AS FAR AS THE ESCALATORS, I NEVER I NEVER DISCUSSED THAT IT WAS THE CAUSE OF IT. IT WAS THE STIMULUS PACKAGE. AND I'VE DONE RESEARCH TO WHERE I WENT AND HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS THEN, AND THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF IT. AND I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO IT IN YOUR COMMENTS. IT WAS AN EFFORT AS A STIMULUS PACKAGE TO REDUCE THE COST OF HOUSING IN OUR COUNTY. AND THEN I WOULD JUST JUST ALSO WANT TO JUST CONVEY A QUICK POINT. FEES ARE TAXES, RIGHT? THERE'S AN ARGUMENT THAT THEY'RE NOT THEY ARE. SO IF YOU INCREASE THE TRASH FEE AND YOU INCREASE THE PHONE FEE AND YOU INCREASE THE EMS FEE, AND THEN YOU INCREASE 
          [01:15:03]
THE IMPACT FEE, IT HAS A COST TO OUR COMMUNITY, OUR COMMUNITY, THAT EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR THEY HAVE IS IMPORTANT. AND IF THEY'RE GOING OUT THE DOOR BECAUSE OF FEES AND THE, YOU KNOW, TO CONCEAL RAISING TAXES, WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT AS A COMMUNITY. SO THIS NOTION WHERE $0.25 AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE TRASH TAX GOES UP BY 46%. 
          IT'S OKAY. IT'S NOT OKAY. INFLATION IS UP. THAT'S WHAT THIS WOULD FURTHER, YOU KNOW, CAUSE AN ISSUE WITH AND THIS IS ALL CONVERSATION. THAT'S WHAT IT'S HERE FOR. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING. SO THANKS. THANKS MR. PENMAN. AND IF NO ONE ELSE HAS A QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO JUST ASK ONE QUESTION. RICH TO YOU. YES. HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. DO THEY PAY IMPACT FEES? YES. WE JUST HAD THIS DISCUSSION YESTERDAY. THE IMPACT FEES GOT AN EMAIL. 
          THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING. THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE CODE FOR HOUSING NONPROFIT. YEAH. SO I THINK IT'S A CONTRIBUTION BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE THAT ACTUALLY COVERS THAT FEE. SO IN ESSENCE THE GENERAL THE GENERAL FUND OR GENERAL TAXPAYERS IN THIS CASE COVER THAT FEE ON THEIR BEHALF. BUT THE BUT THE FUND ITSELF IS NOT IS NOT SHORTED BECAUSE OF I THINK THE IN ORDER TO KEEP THE VALIDITY OF THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE IMPACT FEES IS THAT EVERYBODY KIND OF HAS TO PAY. SO IF THEY'RE NOT, YOU DON'T JUST GIVE THEM A WAIVER, YOU YOU PAY IT ON THEIR BEHALF. GOT IT. THANK YOU, MISS DIXON. DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? WE DO, MR. PRESIDENT. WE HAVE SIX THIS EVENING. I WOULD CALL YOUR FIRST SPEAKER, AND I WOULD JUST REMIND YOU THAT YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. THE FIRST SPEAKER IS BRIANNA COLEMAN, FOLLOWED BY DIANA SADOWSKI. 
          THANK YOU FOR. THE GOOD EVENING, MA'AM. NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. IS THAT MICHAEL? SIX. HELLO. 
          HELLO. GOOD EVENING. I'M BRIANNA COLEMAN, 2347 ENGLE ROAD IN BOSTON. GOOD EVENING, COUNCIL MEMBERS. I TRULY HOPE THIS IS THE LAST TIME YOU'LL HEAR ME SPEAK ABOUT IMPACT FEES. I SUPPORT THIS BILL AS IS NOT MANY REALIZE THE EFFORT THAT GOES INTO MAKING CHANGES LIKE THIS. 
          AND I'M PROUD OF THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE TOGETHER. I'D LIKE TO THANK COUNCIL PRESIDENT VICENTE AND HIS TEN OUT OF TEN SIDEKICK, SAM, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, AND THE REST OF THE MEMBERS OF THE IMPACT FEE WORK GROUP FOR THEIR TIME AND DEDICATION TO MAKING THIS POSITIVE CHANGE FOR HARFORD COUNTY. I'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK THE COUNCIL ATTORNEY, MEGAN, FOR HIGHLIGHTING AN ISSUE BEFORE THIS BILL WAS INTRODUCED THAT BECAUSE OF LIMITATIONS IN OUR CHARTER, HARFORD COUNTY STILL WILL NOT FULLY RECOVER THE COST STUDENTS IMPOSE ON OUR SCHOOLS FOR CERTAIN DWELLING TYPES, THERE'S MORE WORK TO BE DONE TONIGHT. CARSON BAYS PRESENTED DATA CLEARLY SHOWING SUPPORT FOR THESE INCREASES. WHY IS THIS A GOOD BILL? WELL, FIRST, IT'S BEEN 20 YEARS SINCE OUR FEES HAVE BEEN UPDATED. WHILE SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION COSTS HAVE RISEN 281%. AND WHO'S PAID THE DIFFERENCE? US, THE CITIZENS OF HARFORD COUNTY IN 2023, THE COUNTY COLLECTED A LITTLE A LITTLE OVER $1.5 MILLION IN REVENUE FROM IMPACT FEES, LEAVING $7 MILLION TO BE COVERED BY THE TAXPAYERS GROWTH SHOULD PAY FOR GROWTH, YET DEVELOPERS CONTINUE TO PROFIT WITHOUT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE. THE COMMUNITY SUPPORTS THIS BILL AT COMMUNITY ARGUMENT IS THAT DEVELOPERS WILL PASS THESE COSTS ON TO RENTERS. WHILE THEY MAY BE TRUE, THEY ALREADY CHARGE MARKET RATES FOR RENTS REGARDLESS OF THE COST. IN A RECENT CONVERSATION I HAD WITH COUNCILMAN PENMAN, HE SUGGESTED THIS BILL MIGHT MAKE HOMEOWNERSHIP LESS AFFORDABLE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE. BUT THE ACTUAL IMPACT OF THIS BILL WOULD AMOUNT TO ABOUT $10 EXTRA A MONTH ON A MORTGAGE. THAT'S NOT EXACTLY OUT OF REACH. AND THE SAME CONVERSATION MR. PENMAN SAID HE WAS LOOKING INTO WHERE THE MONEY GOES AND SEEMED TO BE SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT THE FUNDS GO TOWARDS SCHOOL DEBT. BY LAW, THESE FEES FUND SCHOOL SITE ACQUISITION, CONSTRUCTION, RENOVATION, DEBT REDUCTION OR CAPITAL EXPENSES. AND YES, THERE'S A LOT OF DEBT BECAUSE FOR DECADES WE HAVEN'T COLLECTED ENOUGH TO COVER THE IMPACT DEVELOPMENT IS HAVING ON OUR SCHOOLS. THIS MODEST INCREASE ENSURES WE'RE CLOSER. AND LIKE COUNCILMAN BENNETT ONCE SAID, 
          [01:20:06]
IT'S UNFORTUNATE WE DON'T HAVE A TIME MACHINE. THIS BILL IS THE SOLUTION, AND THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR PROGRESS HERE. ANY AMENDMENTS OR DELAYS TO THE PROPOSED FEES ONLY BENEFIT DEVELOPERS, NOT THE TAXPAYERS OR STUDENTS OF HARFORD COUNTY. AND I THINK MR. PENMAN SHOWED WHERE HIS LOYALTIES LIE TONIGHT. THIS IS A GOOD BILL AND I TRUST YOU'LL MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE. 
          THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR LISTENING. THANK YOU MA'AM. GOOD EVENING MA'AM. NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. GOOD EVENING. DIANA SADOWSKI, 1113 STRZEMPKO DRIVE, FALLSTON, MARYLAND. GOOD EVENING. COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO EXPRESS CONDOLENCES TO THE GUTHRIE FAMILY ON THEIR RECENT LOSS. AND I PRAY GOD SENDS HIS ANGELS TO COMFORT YOU AND GIVE YOU PEACE. THANK YOU. NOW I STAND BEFORE YOU WITH REGARD TO BILL 2433 IMPACT FEES. ACCORDING TO THE FISCAL STATEMENT ON THE BILL, ITS APPROVAL WOULD INCREASE IMPACT FEE REVENUE BY 3.6 MILLION ANNUALLY. THAT'S QUITE A BIT OF CONSTRUCTION MONIES FOR OUR SCHOOLS. AND AS THIS IS THE FIRST ATTEMPT TO INCREASE THESE FEES IN OVER 20 YEARS. SO TALK ABOUT LEAVING MONEY ON THE TABLE. WE'VE DONE THAT. AS I'VE SAID IN THE PAST, HARFORD COUNTY HAS BEEN ON SALE FOR TOO LONG, AND IT'S BEEN PROVEN WHILE THIS BILL IS A MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, I HAVE CONCERNS WITH IT, ESPECIALLY ABOUT EXEMPTIONS. IT'S THIS GRAMMIE'S OPINION THAT A CLOSER LOOK IS NEEDED REGARDING THE LENGTH OF TIME WITH REGARD TO APPLICATIONS FOR BUILDING PERMITS AND THE ACTUAL BUILD, WAITING POSSIBLY UP TO TEN YEARS BEFORE ANY FEES ARE COLLECTED. 
          JUST SEEMS WRONG TO ME. WHEN WE HAVE AN IMMEDIATE NEED NOW, AND I THINK WE NEED TO SHORTEN THAT TIME FOR THAT INVESTMENT IN HARFORD COUNTY. I'M JUST GOING TO THROW THIS OUT THERE JUST FOR FILING IN THE BACK OF OUR HEADS AT LAST NIGHT'S BOARD OF EDUCATION MEETING, THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT INDICATED THAT ENROLLMENT WAS ACTUALLY DOWN. I'M ASKING THAT WE JUST STORE THAT TIDBIT FOR THE FUTURE. IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN THESE IMPACT REVENUES WILL LOOK EVEN BETTER TO US. IN CLOSING, I'D LIKE TO SAY KUDOS AND BRAVO AND BRAVO TO ALL INVOLVED IN THIS BILL PROCESS. AS I SAID, IT'S A START. IT'S NOT PERFECT. I THINK THINGS NEED TO BE LOOKED AT AND ESPECIALLY WITHOUT A COLLECTIVE EFFORT, IT WOULD STILL BE BUSINESS AS USUAL. AND I THANK YOU. THANK YOU MA'AM. JEFF BECK FOLLOWED BY STEPHANIE FLASH. GOOD EVENING SIR. NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. GOOD EVENING, SIR JEFFREY BECK, 102 SHELL ROAD, JOPPATOWNE, MARYLAND. THIS IS A REALLY NICE PODIUM. ACCORDING TO MARYLAND DECLARATION OF RIGHTS ARTICLE SIX, ALL PERSONS INVESTED WITH THE LEGISLATURE OR EXECUTIVE POWERS OF GOVERNMENT ARE THE TRUSTEES OF THE PUBLIC AND AS SUCH, ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR CONDUCT, OUR FREE GOVERNMENT SERVICE. LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE. I THINK YOU'RE GETTING READY TO SPEAK TO A SOMETHING THAT'S IN LITIGATION. NO, SIR. NO 100% IMPACT FEES. OKAY. I START START EVERY TIME WITH THAT. GO AHEAD. JUST JUST A REMINDER, OKAY. FREE GOVERNMENT EXISTS FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PRESERVING AND PROTECTING THE FREEDOMS AND LIBERTIES OF THE CITIZENS. EVERY BILL DRAFTED, EVERY AMENDMENT OFFERED, AND EVERY PRESS RELEASE ISSUED OUGHT TO BE PRECEDED BY THE QUESTION OF HOW IS THIS ACTION GOING TO PRESERVE THE LIBERTIES OF MY CONSTITUENTS REGARDING BILL 24 OR 33 FOR THE IMPACT FEES, I AM IN FAVOR OF IT. I UNDERSTAND THE STATE LIMITATIONS. I THINK IT DOESN'T GO QUITE FAR ENOUGH TO COVER THE COVER. THE GAPS. IT HAS BEEN, AS STATED PREVIOUSLY, NEARLY 20 YEARS WITHOUT ANY ADJUSTMENT. IN 2023 ALONE, THERE WAS APPROXIMATELY A $4 MILLION GAP BETWEEN IMPACT FEE REVENUE AND SCHOOL CAPACITY. PROJECT EXPENSES. BASED ON MY MATH, THE ORIGINALLY RESERVED COMMUNITY ALONE UNDER THE PROPOSED FEES VERSUS THE CURRENT FEES WOULD HAVE GENERATED AN ADDITIONAL NEARLY $2 MILLION IN IMPACT FEES. AND THAT'S JUST ONE COMMUNITY. THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY SOME NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES TO KEEPING IMPACT FEES LOW, LESS REVENUE TO SUPPORT THE NECESSARY SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE HAS BEEN REPEATEDLY STATED THIS EVENING ALREADY. I THINK KEEPING THE IMPACT FEES LOW SENDS A MESSAGE THAT HARFORD COUNTY IS FOR SALE, KIND OF A DISCOUNT STORE FOR DEVELOPERS. THE EXISTING RESIDENTS ARE THEN LEFT TO PICK UP THE TAB, AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 19 YEARS, FOR THE DIFFERENCES. OUR NEIGHBORING COUNTY, BALTIMORE COUNTY, JUST REVISED THEIR IMPACT FEES THIS SUMMER TO THE POINT THAT THEY ARE COLLECTING $6 PER SQUARE FOOT. QUICK MATH ON THAT. A AVERAGE 2400 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE 
          [01:25:02]
FAMILY HOME IS GOING TO COLLECT $15,000 PER HOME VERSUS OUR TEN. WE'RE STILL KIND OF A DISCOUNT STORE. THAT BEING SAID, I DO STRONGLY ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL AS IT EXISTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. BECK. AND MY APOLOGIES. NO WORRIES. GOOD EVENING MA'AM. 
          NAME AND ADDRESS. GOOD EVENING STEPHANIE FLASH, AND I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF FRIENDS OF HARFORD. FRIENDS OF HARFORD SUPPORTS INCREASING IMPACT FEES TO FUND NEW SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION. 
          AS THIS REVENUE IS AS WE'VE BEEN MENTIONING, VERY ESSENTIAL TO THE GROWING EDUCATIONAL NEEDS THAT WE SEE IN HARFORD COUNTY. THE APPROVED COUNTY OPERATING BUDGET AND 2025 ANTICIPATED THE 2.1 MILLION IN REVENUE FROM IMPACT FEES AND THE PROPOSED INCREASE. AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, COULD BRING IN 1.3 ADDITIONAL. THESE FUNDS REPRESENT A FAIR AND NECESSARY SOLUTION TO BALANCE OUR GROWTH WITH CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'VE ALL ALREADY DISCUSSED ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS. NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS BEING BRING MORE FAMILIES AND STUDENTS, AS WE KNOW, INCREASING THE DEMANDS FOR OUR CLASSROOMS AND SCHOOLS. CURRENTLY, HARFORD COUNTY'S IMPACT FEES ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER. AS STATED IN THE RESEARCH DISCOVERED TODAY. HIGHLIGHTING THESE NEEDS FOR ADJUSTMENT TO ENSURE THAT THE DEVELOPERS DO CONTRIBUTE APPROPRIATELY TO THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH NEW SCHOOL CONSTRUCTIONS IN 2009, THE COUNTY COUNCIL DID SUSPEND THE IMPACT FEES SUPPORTING THE HOUSING MARKET DURING AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, BUT SINCE THEN THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS HAVE ALMOST DOUBLED. BUT THE IMPACT FEES HAVE REMAINED UNCHANGED, PLACING THE COST OF THE NEW SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION ON TAXPAYER. SO INCREASING THESE FEES IS NOT A BARRIER TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. RATHER, IT ENSURES THAT DEVELOPERS CONTRIBUTE TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS OF OUR EXPANDING COMMUNITIES. AND AS OUR COUNTY CONTINUES TO ATTRACT NEW RESIDENTS DUE TO OUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO GROW, ADJUSTING THE IMPACT FEES SIMILAR TO HOW FREDERICK COUNTIES AND OUR OTHER SURROUNDINGS FOR INFLATION ENSURES THAT THE DEVELOPERS DO DO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE IN SUPPORTING THE ESSENTIAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR OUR GROWTH. GROWING POPULATION. SO RAISING THE IMPACT FEES WOULD ALIGN HARFORD COUNTY WITH FUNDING PRACTICES AND OTHER MARYLAND COUNTIES, CREATING A RELIABLE FUNDING SOURCE FOR OUR SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION. THIS ADJUSTMENT IS A FAIR WAY TO SUPPORT GROWTH WITHOUT OVERBURDENING THE TAXPAYERS OR OUR SCHOOLS. FRIENDS OF HARVARD ASKED THAT YOU SUPPORT THE BILL WITHOUT A MINUTE, WITHOUT AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD LITERALLY LIMIT THE CRITICAL FUNDING THAT OUR SCHOOLS NEED, AND TO HELP MAINTAIN HARFORD COUNTY AS A DESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE AND LEARN. THANK YOU MA'AM. LAUREN HEIZER, FOLLOWED BY JOE SNEE. 
          GOOD EVENING MA'AM. NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. HI, LAUREN HEIZER, 2087 STEWART DRIVE IN FALLSTON. NICE TO SEE EVERYBODY AGAIN. IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE. I HAD A LOT OF THINGS I PLANNED TO SAY, BUT SO MUCH WAS COVERED. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. SEPTEMBER OF 2023 I CAME AND I ADDRESSED THE COUNCIL OUT OF CONCERN DUE TO THE NUMBER AND SIZE OF ALL OF THE LARGE SCALE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED OR PROPOSED IN OUR COUNTY, AND I ASKED FOR CHANGE RELATING TO SCHOOL FORECASTING, APFO AND IMPACT FEES. AS WE'VE ALL DISCUSSED TONIGHT, THE IMPACT FEES ARE 2004 RATES, DESPITE A 281% INCREASE TO CONSTRUCTION COSTS, I WOULD HAVE KEPT IT REALLY SIMPLE AND JUST SAID, HEY, LET'S MATCH IT, LET'S RAISE IT. BUT THE COUNTY DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. I MEAN, THE PRESENTATION TONIGHT, HOW MANY ASPECTS THEY LOOKED AT TO REALLY CALCULATE WHAT THE RIGHT AMOUNT IS. WE DON'T NEED TO CONSIDER SQUARE FOOTAGE CALCULATIONS. THEY DID THAT. THAT'S WHAT WE PAID THEM TO DO. DELAYING THE PASSING OF THIS BILL IS COSTING OUR COUNTY MONEY. ONE OF THE PREVIOUS SPEAKERS MENTIONED $2 MILLION DIFFERENCE. IF IT HAD BEEN FOR THE RIDGELEY COMMUNITY. I DID SIMILAR CALCULATIONS FOR THINGS LIKE THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OFF PLUM TREE BELLAIRE VILLAGE. THAT WOULD BE A $2.2 MILLION DIFFERENCE. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. THERE ARE LOTS OF PROPOSED COMMUNITIES AT PLAY RIGHT NOW. THE LONGER THIS TAKES, THE MORE OF A DEFICIT WE FALL INTO. WE'VE ALL AGREED THAT EVEN WITH THIS CHANGE, EVERY HOME THAT CONTAINS CHILDREN, I MEAN, PUTS US AT A DEFICIT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COUNCILMAN PITTMAN MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SOMETIMES CAN'T AFFORD AS LARGE OF HOUSES WITH INFLATION. WELL, TOWNHOMES, THEY'RE ACTUALLY ESTIMATED TO BRING IN MORE STUDENTS THAN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. SO BASING OFF SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULDN'T BE FAIR. OR JUST WE'RE LOOKING AT WHERE THE STUDENTS ARE. SO THE WORK HAS BEEN DONE. PASS THE BILL AS IS. IT'S WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE COUNTY. IT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR. NO ONE CAN ARGUE WITH INFLATION. I MEAN, THINGS JUST COST MORE MONEY. PEOPLE EXPECT TO PAY MORE MONEY 
          [01:30:04]
FOR THINGS WHEN THEY COST MORE MONEY. IT'S JUST IT'S WHERE WE'RE AT AND IT'S WAY TOO LATE ALREADY. PASS IT. GET A FIX IN. WE'LL WORK ON THE STATE LEGISLATION THAT KEEPS US AT A CAP, THAT KEEPS US IN THAT HOLE, THE HOLE THAT'S BEEN CREATED OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS. IT'S GOING TO TAKE A REALLY LONG TIME TO CLIMB OUT OF. NONE OF THESE CHANGES ARE GOING TO DO THAT. WE NEED TO GET IT DONE. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE COMMITTEE FOR WORKING ON IT. MR. PRESIDENT, CITIZENS LIKE BRIANNA THAT ATTENDED THOSE MEETINGS, A LOT OF HARD WORK WENT INTO IT. 
          WE THIS BILL IS EXCELLENT. IT COVERS SO MANY ASPECTS. IT'LL IT'LL RAISE OVER TIME WITH INFLATION. IT'S BUILT IN FOR THE STATE CAP. IT'S AN EXCELLENT BILL AND IT'S REALLY WHAT'S RIGHT. AND PLEASE JUST SHOW US WHO YOU STAND WITH. ARE YOU STANDING WITH THE STUDENTS. ARE YOU STANDING WITH YOUR CURRENT TAX BASE OR ARE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE? AND FOR THOSE BUILDING HOMES AND FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT WANT TO LOWER THE RATE OR NOT HAVE IT PASS, IS THIS IS IT BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE MATH AND DISAGREE WITH THE ARGUMENT, OR JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY IT? THANK YOU. THANK YOU MA'AM. GOOD EVENING SIR. NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. 
          GOOD EVENING, MR. PRESIDENT. JOSEPH FRANCIS SNEED, JUNIOR, 1322 GRAFTON SHOP ROAD, BEL AIR. 
          TWO 1014. I'M A CONTRARIAN AND I RISE IN OPPOSITION TO BILL 2403 THREE TO RAISE THE SCHOOL IMPACT FEE. AND YOU SHOULD NOT. AND WHY NOT? FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS. SINCE DECEMBER 5TH OF 2022, HERTFORD COUNTY HAS BEEN STAGNANT, THE ECONOMY HAS SUFFERED, AND THE STAGNATION IS CAUSED IN LARGE PART BY OVERREGULATION, STUNNING THE COUNTY'S GROWTH. THIS BILL IS SOMETHING THAT JUST PILES ON. THAT'S ALL THAT THIS DOES. AND UNLIKE SEWERS, UNLIKE ROADS, UNLIKE WATER SYSTEMS, THE AMOUNT OF EDUCATIONAL SERVICES THAT WILL BE USED BY ANY SINGLE FAMILY HOME, TOWNHOUSE, APARTMENT OR OTHERWISE IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOLS. HOUSES DO NOT SEND CHILDREN TO SCHOOLS. FAMILIES DO. NEW HOMES CAN BE PURCHASED BY HARFORD COUNTIANS, WHO DO NOT ADD TO THE SCHOOL POPULATION. FOR EXAMPLE, HOME SCHOOLERS EMPTY NESTERS, FAMILIES WHO MOVE FROM ONE HARFORD COUNTY RESIDENCE TO ANOTHER PRIVATE SCHOOLERS, CHILDLESS HOUSEHOLDS, HOUSEHOLDS, AND SO ON. IMPACT FEES IN MY EXPERIENCE OF 40 YEARS OF LAND USE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT MEANS TO CONSTRUCT PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THE GENERAL PUBLIC FUNDS SHOULD BE DOING THAT, NOT TARGETED HOME BUILDERS AND HOME BUYERS, BECAUSE ONE OF TWO THINGS IS GOING TO HAPPEN. THE HOME BUILDERS WILL MOVE OUT AND SAY IT'S NOT WORTH IT IN HARFORD COUNTY, IF THEY DO ELECT TO BUILD, THEY'LL PASS IT ON TO THE HOME BUYER AND THE HOME BUYER PAYS. NOW, I'VE HEARD IT'S ONLY 4000 AT 11 A MONTH. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS. IT'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN COSTS TO PUT A SHOVEL IN THE GROUND IN HARFORD COUNTY FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME BEFORE YOU CAN PUT A STICK IN THE GROUND. IT'S THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF THESE FEES THAT ARE KILLING THE GOLDEN GOOSE. AND THAT'S HOME BUILDING. THE MOST IMPORTANT INDUSTRY IN HARFORD COUNTY AND RAISING IMPACT FEES ADDS NOTHING MORE THAN UNAFFORDABILITY. 47 YEARS AGO, WE HAD 34,000 KIDS IN THIS SYSTEM. THAT'S WHEN I GRADUATED. FAST FORWARD TODAY, 38,000. THIS DOESN'T PASS THE NEXUS TEST OF DOLAN AND NOLAN. ALL SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE UNDER CAPACITY. MIDDLE, HIGH AND ELEMENTARY. OH THREE THREE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMOKE SCREEN. IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE REAL CAPITAL NEEDS. 
          MR. SNEED MAKES GROWTH LESS LIKELY. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. THERE ARE NO MORE SPEAKERS, MR. PRESIDENT, WITH NO OTHER SPEAKERS. THIS WILL CONCLUDE THIS PUBLIC HEARING AND THAT WILL BE TAKEN UP AT A FUTURE MEETING. AND MISS ALLEGED, I WANT TO GO 
          [1. CALL TO ORDER]
          [01:35:09]
CHAIR CALLS THE ORDER OF LEGISLATIVE SESSION. DAY 20 4-0 28 I WOULD ASK YOU TO PLEASE JOIN US IN STANDING FOR THE PLEDGE, FOLLOWED BY THE OPENING PRAYER BY COUNCIL MEMBER BENNET. 
          I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. HEAVENLY FATHER, I ASK THAT YOU ARE WITH US TONIGHT AS WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS WORK, TO NOT JUST ON THE DAIS, BUT BACK IN OUR COMMUNITIES, REPRESENT OUR NEIGHBORS AND THEIR NEEDS. 
          TONIGHT, I PRAY, IN MY DISTRICT, IN MY TOWN, FOR MY COMMUNITY. AS WE LOST THE LIFE OF A YOUNG MAN, JADEN, AT 14 YEARS OLD. I PRAY THAT YOU ARE WITH HIM, HIS CLASSMATES, HIS FAMILY, HIS TEACHERS, HIS COACHES, AND ALL WHO KNEW HIM AS THEY JUST TRAVEL THROUGH THIS DIFFICULT TIME AND THAT YOU'RE WITH US ALL AS LEADERS IN THIS COMMUNITY, TO HAVE THE RIGHT WORDS AND THE RIGHT ACTIONS TO SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER. YOUR NAME WE PRAY. AME. AMEN. TONIGHT, AGENDA ITEM 
          [5. CONSIDERATION OF PETITIONS, APPLICATIONS, APPOINTMENTS AND NOMINATIONS]
NUMBER FOUR PRESENTATION OF PROCLAMATIONS. WE HAVE NONE. FIVE CONSIDERATION OF PETITIONS, APPLICATIONS, APPOINTMENTS AND NOMINATIONS. COUNCIL APPOINTMENT 2025 MAKO LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE. 
          COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE AND ALTERNATE. MAY I HAVE A MOTION, PLEASE? COUNCIL PRESIDENT, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENTS OF COUNCILMAN PENMAN AND COUNCILMAN RILEY AS A AS AN ALTERNATE. MAY I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE. IT'S BEEN MOVED IN SECOND TO APPROVE BOTH MR. PENMAN AND MR. RILEY FOR OUR MAKO REPRESENTATIVES. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? I WOULD LIKE TO JUST COMMENT ON THE FACT THAT MR. PENMAN AND MR. RILEY ATTEND MEETINGS REGULARLY, AND THEY COME BACK AND INFORM US OF EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON THAT IMPACTS US HERE IN HERTFORD COUNTY. AND I APPRECIATE BOTH OF THEIR SERVICE. AND WITH THAT, MISS DICKSON, MR. PRESIDENT, MR. GUTHRIE, HI MR. PENMAN. HI, MR. GIORDANO. HI, MR. RILEY. HI, MRS. SADDLES. HI, MR. BENNETT I BEING SEVEN VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, ZERO IN THE NEGATIVE. THE APPOINTMENTS ARE HEREBY APPROVED. EXECUTIVE APPOINTMENTS. JAMES V CAPTAIN JIM MCMAHON, COMMISSION ON VETERANS AFFAIRS. MAY I HAVE A MOTION? COUNCIL PRESIDENT. I MOVE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT OF DOCTOR ANDRE MELTON. MAY I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TO APPROVE DOCTOR MOUNTAIN AS A NEW APPOINTMENT FOR THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION, MISS DIXON? MR. PRESIDENT? HI, MR. GUTHRIE. HI, MR. PENMAN. MR. GIORDANO. HI, MR. RILEY. HI, MRS. HI, MR. BENNETT HI THERE. 
          BEING SEVEN VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, ZERO IN THE NEGATIVE. THE APPOINTMENT IS HEREBY APPROVED. DOCTOR MOUNTAIN, ARE YOU IN THE AUDIENCE? I AM THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, MA'AM. DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES ADVISORY BOARD. MAY I HAVE A MOTION? COUNCIL PRESIDENT, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE REAPPOINTMENTS OF DOCTOR ANDRE ANDREA MOUNTAIN AND DOCTOR MARK LAVELLE. AND THE NEW APPOINTMENTS OF COURTNEY CLUSTER, DANIEL RUSSIN, CHRISTINE GEARHART AND CYNTHIA PHILLIPS. MAY I HAVE A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND. THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. IT'S BEEN MOVED IN A SECOND TO APPROVE THE REAPPOINTMENTS AND NEW APPOINTMENTS. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? MISS DIXON, MR. PRESIDENT. HI, MR. GUTHRIE. HI, MR. PENMAN. HI, MR. GIORDANO. HI, MR. RILEY. HI, MRS. MR. BENNETT. I THERE BEING SEVEN VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ZERO AND NEGATIVE. THE APPOINTMENTS ARE HEREBY APPROVED, AND WE MAY HAVE ALL OF YOU THAT ARE HERE WITH US THIS EVENING. STAND, PLEASE. THANK YOU. TOWING APPEALS BOARD. MAY I HAVE A MOTION? COUNCIL PRESIDENT, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENTS OF JEFFREY CLARK. MAY HAVE A SECOND. SECOND. THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. IT'S BEEN MOVED IN SECOND TO APPROVE MR. CLARK AS A NEW APPOINTMENT TO THE ZONING APPEALS BOARD. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, MISS DIXON. MR. PRESIDENT. HI, MR. GUTHRIE. HI, MR. PENMAN. HI, MR. GIORDANO. HI, MR. RILEY. HI, MRS. HI, MR. BENNETT. HI THERE. BEING SEVEN VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, ZERO NEGATIVE. THE APPOINTMENT IS HEREBY APPROVED. MR. CLARK, ARE YOU WITH US? ALL RIGHT, GUESS NOT. ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CASE NUMBER 6002. MATTHEW WATSON. MAY I HAVE A 
          [01:40:08]
MOTION? MR. PRESIDENT, I MOVE TO ADOPT. THE HEARING EXAMINER'S RECOMMENDED DECISION DATED JUNE 4TH, 2024. MAY I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. IT'S BEEN MOVED IN SECOND TO UPHOLD THE HEARING EXAMINER'S DECISION. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? MR. PRESIDENT? MR. PENMAN, ON THIS EVENING, WHEN THIS PUBLIC HEARING TOOK PLACE, I WAS NOT HERE. BUT I'VE WATCHED DONE READ THE REPORT. SO I'M WELL AWARE OF THE DETAILS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. THANK YOU. 
          ANYONE ELSE? MISS DIXON? MR. PRESIDENT? HI MR. GUTHRIE. HI MR. PENMAN HI MR. GIORDANO, I. 
          MR. HI MRS. I MR. BENNETT I BEING SEVEN VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ZERO AND NEGATIVE. 
          THE RECOMMENDED DECISION OF THE HEARING EXAMINER DATED JUNE 4TH, 2024 IS HEREBY APPROVED. SIX 
          [7. APPROVAL OF MINUTES ]
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS. WE HAVE NONE. SEVEN APPROVAL OF MINUTES. PUBLIC HEARING OCTOBER 15TH, 2024. LEGISLATIVE DAY 24 ZERO 27 OCTOBER 15TH, 2024. ARE THERE ANY CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES? SEEING NONE. THE MINUTES STAND APPROVED EIGHT. INTRODUCTION. CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTIONS WE HAVE NONE. NONE. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS WE HAVE NONE TEN. INTRODUCTION AND CONSIDERATION 
          [11.  CALL FOR FINAL READING OF BILLS ]
OF AMENDMENTS. WE HAVE NONE 11. CALL FOR FINAL READING OF BILLS BILL 20 4-031 HOTEL OCCUPANCY TAX. MAY I HAVE A MOTION? COUNCIL PRESIDENT I MOVE TO APPROVE BILL 20 4-0 31. MAY I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TO APPROVE BILL 24 031. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, MISS DIXON. MR. PRESIDENT. HI MR. GUTHRIE. NO, MR. PENMAN HI, MR. GIORDANO. HI, MR. RILEY. HI, MRS. MR. BENNETT. HI. YOU'RE BEING SIX VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. ONE NEGATIVE. BILL 20 4-031 IS HEREBY APPROVE. 12 ENROLLMENT OF BILLS. BILL 20 
          [12. ENROLLMENT OF BILLS]
4-0. 31 HOTEL OCCUPANCY PASS IS THE CERTIFIED TEXT FINALLY PASSED. 13. UNFINISHED BUSINESS. 
          NONE 14 UNFINISHED BUSINESS NONE 17. COMMENTS AND INPUT FROM ATTENDING CITIZENS. MISS DIXON, DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? THERE ARE NO SPEAKERS, MR. PRESIDENT. THANK YOU, MISS 
          [16. BUSINESS FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS]
DIXON. 16 BUSINESS FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS. I'VE LOST MY PLACE. I'M GOING TO START WITH MR. GUTHRIE. 
          THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. IF FIRST OFF, AS A POINT OF SPECIAL PRIVILEGE, I WANT TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH MYSELF AND MY WIFE OVER THE PASSING OF HER, HER MOM LAST MONDAY. SHE'LL BE VIEWED AT SHERMAN OAKS FUNERAL HOME IN BEL AIR THIS SATURDAY FROM TWO TO 3 TO 5 AND FIVE, 7 TO 9 BEEN A DIFFICULT TIME FOR MY WIFE THAT THERE'S NO ONE YOU NEVER WOULD SEE A DAUGHTER AND A AND A MOTHER THAT WERE MORE CLOSER THAN THE TWO OF THEM. ABOUT TEN OR SO YEARS AGO. WE MY MOM WAS LIVING. HER MOM WAS LIVING BY HERSELF, AND HER HUSBAND HAD DIED. WORLD WAR TWO VETERAN, BY THE WAY, WITH A COUPLE OF PURPLE HEARTS, THE BRONZE STAR, ALL KINDS OF OTHER MEDALS FROM FROM WORLD WAR TWO. AND HE HAD PASSED AWAY 9 OR 10 YEARS BEFORE THAT, AND SHE WAS NOT LOOKING GOOD OR LOSING A LOT OF WEIGHT. SO WE SAID, WELL, THAT'S ENOUGH OF THAT, MOM. YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE IN WITH US. SO 10 OR 12 YEARS AGO, WE MOVED HER IN WITH US, AND THEN SHE GOT A LOT BETTER. MY WIFE FORCE FED HER AND SHE PUT ON ABOUT 26, 27 POUNDS, AND SHE DID REAL WELL FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. SO SHE MADE IT TO 98. WE WERE TRYING TO GET HER TO 100 SO WE COULD BRING HER HERE AND PRESENT HER WITH A PROCLAMATION FOR MAKING 100, BUT UNFORTUNATELY SHE SHE DIDN'T MAKE IT. SO SHE WAS A GREAT LAD. MY MOM ACTUALLY DIED 40 SOME YEARS AGO, SO I ADOPTED HER AND HER AND I WATCHED TV A LOT, SITTING ALONGSIDE OF EACH OTHER, WATCHING BASEBALL GAMES AND FOOTBALL GAMES AND ARGUING OVER THE RESULTS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. BUT WE TOOK HER EVERYWHERE BECAUSE WE COULDN'T LEAVE HER BEHIND. BUT WE TOOK HER OUT TO DINNER A LOT AND ONE OF HER FAVORITE RESTAURANTS, HER FAVORITE NOT ONE, BUT HER FAVORITE RESTAURANT WAS THE DINER ON EBENEZER ROAD. SHE LOVED THAT DINER. I DON'T CARE, WE COULD TAKE HER TO THE WALDORF ASTORIA. AND THE FIRST THING SHE WOULD SAY, WELL, THIS AIN'T AS GOOD AS THE DINER, YOU KNOW? AND WHEN SHE CAME IN THERE, THEY JUST TOOK CARE OF HER. AND ABOUT 
          [01:45:08]
A MONTH AGO, SHE. SHE HAD TO GO IN THE HOSPITAL. SHE WENT IN THE HOSPITAL FOR ABOUT SIX DAYS, AND THEN THEY THEY SENT HER HOME. THEY SAID, BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T DO ANY MORE. BUT SHE WAS JUST STRONG ENOUGH FOR US TO TAKE HER DOWN TO THE DINER FOR ONE MORE TIME. AND SHE SHE HAD HER DINNER THERE AND CAME BACK. AND THAT WAS ABOUT THE LAST TIME SHE WENT OUT. AND THEY SHE WAS GOING TO GO ON HOSPICE. WE SAID, NO, THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU'RE GOING TO DO HOSPICE, YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT FROM THE HOUSE. SO WE HAD THEY CAME AND DID HOSPICE FROM THE HOUSE. I DIDN'T REALIZE WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR, BUT THE FRONT DOOR HAD TURNED INTO A REVOLVING DOOR AND THEY REALLY TREATED HER GREAT. I MEAN, NURSES AND DOCTORS AND ALL CAME. I MEAN, JUST A TEN, 12 HOURS A DAY. AND THEY EVEN BROUGHT A HOSPITAL BED IN FOR HER LAST WEEK OR SO. AND IT IT DID GREAT. SO I JUST CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH, EVERYBODY, FOR, FOR ALL THE EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS AND EVERYTHING. AND MY WIFE DOES TOO. AND SHE'S, SHE'S HAVING A LITTLE DIFFICULT TIME RIGHT NOW WITH IT. JUST A COUPLE OTHER THINGS. ON SATURDAY 19TH I ATTENDED THE MUSIC FESTIVAL THAT THEY HAD AT FLYING POINT PARK, PUT ON WITH BAND VAN MILLER. SHE'S DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THE 755 ALLIANCE. WE APPRECIATE WHAT SHE DOES IN EDGEWOOD. ALSO ON LAST NIGHT WE HAD OUR EDGEWOOD JOPPATOWNE ADVISORY BOARD MEETING AT AT THE SOUTHERN PRECINCT WHERE WE HAVE IT ALL. 
          WE DO REAL WELL. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST WELL ATTENDED COMMUNITY MEETINGS IN THE COUNTY. IT'S ALWAYS PACKED. WE ALWAYS FILL IT UP 50, 60 PEOPLE. SO WE'RE VERY, VERY HAPPY WITH THE TURNOUT AND WE GET A LOT DONE BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY EDGEWOOD JOPPATOWNE TOGETHER ON THE SATURDAY NIGHT. I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT BECAUSE OF BECAUSE OF THE FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE VIEWING OF MY MOTHER IN LAW. BUT THE GRAND OPENING OF THE FIRST HARFORD SQUARE ASSOCIATION CLUBHOUSE AT 1493 HARFORD SQUARE IS GOING TO OPEN, AND I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT BECAUSE CARMEN JONES, WHO IS HEADING THAT HOA NOW THAT THAT HARFORD SQUARE AND THAT HOA HAS BEEN DEAD FOR YEARS AND SHE'S REVIVED IT AND SHE'S DOING A GREAT JOB IN THAT AREA. SO WE'RE VERY HAPPY WITH THE JOB SHE'S DOING, WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE EDGEWOOD COMMUNITY. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. THANK YOU, MR. GUTHRIE. MR. PENMAN THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I WANT TO OFFER MY CONDOLENCES TO THE GUTHRIE FAMILY. I'VE SEEN DIANA AND DIANE'S MOTHER IN LAW AND SHE WAS A STRONG WOMAN. SHE WENT TO EVENTS TOGETHER AS A FAMILY. SO I'M SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. I'M PRAYING FOR YOUR FAMILY. IN HONOR OF THE ELECTION DAY TODAY. 
          IN YOUR TIME, RESPECT FOR YOUR TIME, I'LL REFRAIN FROM ANY FURTHER COMMENTS. THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU, MR. PENMAN. MR. JORDAN. THANK YOU. THE RECORD. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. COUNCIL PRESIDENT. DIANE, I MET YOUR MOTHER IN LAW A COUPLE TIMES. I AM VERY SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. 
          IT'S BEEN A IT'S BEEN A TOUGH MONTH, I GUESS, FOR BOTH OF US. SO I MY DEEPEST CONDOLENCES AND TO DIANE AND YOURSELF. JUST REAL BUSY WEEK. WEDNESDAY WAS OUR BUSINESS APPRECIATION WEEK. 
          CONGRATULATIONS TO KRAUS. COMPANIES 25 YEARS, YORKTOWN SPORTS 25 YEARS LOVE FLEMING. 
          BURSON HALLORAN 25 YEARS HENNY AND HENNINGER LLC 25 YEARS I DID OCTOBER AT THE FESTIVAL OF BEL AIR. ON OCTOBER 23RD ALSO, AND THEN ON THE 24TH MYSELF, COUNCILMAN PENMAN I THINK, AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT VICENTE WERE AT THE TOWN OF BEL AIR ANNUAL AWARDS. CONGRATULATIONS TO MIKE BLOOM, A CITIZEN OF THE YEAR. MIKE DOES THE BEL AIR PARADE, THE CHRISTMAS PARADE AND THE 4TH JULY 4TH OF JULY PARADE. THEY'RE TREMENDOUS PARADES, LOTS OF PEOPLE. GREAT EVENT. THE CHRISTMAS PARADE IS PROBABLY MY FAVORITE PARADE OF ALL OF THEM, SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT. 
          IN DECEMBER, BUSINESS OF THE YEAR WAS NEWBURY CAFE AND BAKERY. I THINK PAT KNOWS THAT SPACE PRETTY WELL. AND THEN THE ORCHARD BULL AWARD GOES TO HARFORD RETIREMENT PLANNERS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM MY OFFICE. THEY DID A PHENOMENAL JOB AND I WISH THEM ALL THE BEST. THE ON FRIDAY DID THE CPP TOUR WITH MDOT HERE, ASKED THEM ABOUT SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT 924 AND THE EXPANSION OF THE ROAD AND ABOUT REPAVING RIGHT DOWN HERE IN FRONT OF BOND ON ROUTE ONE. AND THAT'S GOING TO GET DONE NEXT YEAR. AND THEN THE HARFORD COUNTY COMMISSION ON DISABILITIES ANNUAL EMPLOYMENT RECOGNITION LUNCH AND THE ON FRIDAY. I'M SURPRISED THAT 
          [01:50:02]
COUNCILMAN PENMAN DIDN'T MENTION BUT HARFORD COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 250TH ANNIVERSARY DINNER AT MARYLAND GULF COUNTRY CLUB TO CELEBRATE THEIR 250 YEARS, HAD A COUPLE OF OLD SHERIFF'S SHOW UP. 
          I GUESS ONCE A SHERIFF, ALWAYS A SHERIFF, AND THE ONE GUY DID PULL OUT A LETTER THAT IT WAS SIGNED BY A SHERIFF TO A SHERIFF, BY A FORMER SHERIFF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO PRETTY INTERESTING. AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. JORDAN AND MR. RILEY. YES. COUNCILMAN. PENMAN DIDN'T MENTION THAT, TONY BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO DO BREVITY TONIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO DO WHAT COUNCILMAN PENMAN DID. AND I HAVE NO COMMENT. GOOD LOR. 
          THANK YOU JIM. THANK YOU, MR. RILEY. MISS BALL, THANK YOU, COUNCIL PRESIDENT. I'LL RESERVE MY COMMENTS AS WELL. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. GOODNESS GRACIOUS. I LOVE IT. THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT. 
          HELLO. GOOD EVENING. IT'S BEEN ANOTHER VERY BUSY WEEK IN MY OFFICE. WE DID A LOT OF WORK. 
          ONE THING I'LL HIGHLIGHT VERY QUICKLY IS THAT WE ORGANIZED A MEETING BETWEEN THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND THE HARFORD CENTER THAT WE HAD THIS MORNING TO HELP BUILD PARTNERSHIP THERE, TO HELP SUPPORT THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE HARFORD CENTER AND MAKE A COMMUNITY CONNECTION. SO THAT WAS GREAT THIS MORNING, VERY PRODUCTIVE. I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT ON NOVEMBER 18TH, THERE WILL BE A COMMUNITY INPUT MEETING WITH PLANNING AND ZONING FOR REZONING APPLICATIONS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED AS A COUNTY. THIS COMMUNITY INPUT MEETING IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO VOICE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE REZONING APPLICATIONS THAT CAME FORWARD THROUGH THIS PROCESS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HEARD I KNOW MR. TIBBS WAS THERE AND HE SPOKE. HE DIDN'T QUITE FINISH YOUR COMMENTS. SO COME TO THE NEXT ONE. AND IT WAS A COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND I WERE AT THE ONE LAST NIGHT, AND IT WAS WELL ATTENDED WITH LOTS OF REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK. AND THEN LASTLY, I JUST WANT TO, AS I RECOGNIZED IN MY PRAYER THIS MORNING OR AT THE START OF THIS MEETING, IT FELT LIKE IT WAS MORNING. IT WAS THAT LONG AGO. THE LOSS OF JAYDEN WINCHESTER, A 14 YEAR OLD AT HAVRE DE GRACE HIGH SCHOOL WHO TRAGICALLY LOST HIS LIFE TO GUN VIOLENCE THIS PAST WEEKEND WHILE AT A HALLOWEEN PARTY WITH FRIENDS, JAYDEN WAS A LARGER THAN LIFE PERSONALITY. A BIG PART OF THE HAPPY GRACE COMMUNITY AND A FORMER STUDENT OF MINE WHO I TAUGHT NINE YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS SIX YEARS OLD. IT'S A BIG LOSS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE VIOLENCE THAT EXISTS IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT EXISTS AMONGST YOUTH TO BETTER TAKE CARE OF OUR KIDS. I'M VERY THANKFUL THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE REST OF OUR COUNCIL IS GOING TO SUPPORT A RESOLUTION I'M PUTTING FORWARD NEXT WEEK, TALKING JUST ABOUT THAT. SO WITH THAT, THAT'S 
          [15. BUSINESS FROM THE PRESIDENT  ]
EVERYTHING TONIGHT. THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT. BUSINESS FROM THE PRESIDENT. I'M JUST GOING TO TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THINGS. RIBBON CUTTING FOR WAGNER AND ASSOCIATES. IT'S A NEW BUILDING RENOVATED DOWN AT THE FESTIVAL AREA FOR AN ACCOUNTING FIRM. OUTSTANDING FIRM. ALSO WE DID A PROCLAMATION PRESENTATION FOR HARFORD COUNTY EMPLOYEE, RETIREE. AND THAT'S CLARENCE ROSS. AND WE WANT TO THANK HIM FOR HIS 50 YEARS OF SERVICE TO HARFORD COUNTY, ALSO, AS MR. JAN GIORDANO MENTIONED, THE 250TH ANNIVERSARY DINNER, THERE WERE SEVERAL OF US THERE. IT WAS AN OUTSTANDING EVENING. I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO LEDOUX'S GARDEN GLOW NEVER BEEN BEFORE. 
          IT WAS AMAZING. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT FOR ANYBODY TO GO IF THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. THE HARFORD COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY GALA, THE UPPER CHESAPEAKE, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, UPPER CHESAPEAKE HEALTH FOUNDATION'S STAR NIGHT GALA THIS PAST WEEKEND WAS AMAZING. I HAD NOT BEEN TO THAT BEFORE. I THINK THE 750 OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS WERE. THERE WAS AN OUTSTANDING EVENING AND THEN, AS MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAD OUR FIRST OFFICIAL APFO WORK GROUP MEETING WITH THE CONSULTANTS THEY WERE IN HOUSE. I WANT TO THANK TYSON AND KELLY TO COME UP FOR COMING UP FROM WHITE AND SMITH. WE HAD 18 MEMBERS IN THE ROOM. OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION, ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION, AND I WANT TO THANK MR. PITTMAN AND TYPICALLY MR. GUTHRIE WOULD BE WITH US. HE WAS NOT AVAILABLE THAT DAY. BUT OUR NEXT MEETING WILL BE ADVERTISED. IT'LL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT SHOULD COME OUT IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. THEN I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET HERE IN THE CHAMBERS WITH SOME COLLEGE STUDENTS AND PROFESSORS FROM HUNGARY. THEY WERE HERE FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF. I WAS A NERVOUS AS A KITTEN MAN. THEY WERE ASKING ALL 
          [01:55:07]
KINDS OF QUESTIONS, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO GET THEM DONE. I WANT TO THANK CONGRESSMAN ANDY HARRIS AND MISS KUIPER FOR SETTING IT UP AND BRINGING THEM IN. AND THEN ALSO WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES, MR. JAN JORDAN AND MR. PENMAN, FOR JOINING ME FOR THE PRIORITIES PRESENTATION TO THE HARFORD COUNTY DELEGATION IN THIS CHAMBERS LAST WEEK, AS WEL. SO AND THEN FINALLY, DIONNE, JEAN AND I WANT TO EXPRESS OUR DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO YOU AND DIANE AND YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS. AND THANK YOU FOR THAT FLOWER. IT WAS VERY NICE. OH, YOU'RE WELCOME. I PICKED THAT OUT MYSELF. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SURPRISE. IT WAS. I EVEN HAD TO TRIM IT AND PUT IT IN WATER FOR YOU. DUG IT OUT OF THE FRONT LAWN
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.